Audi Allroad: the ultimate tow car?

[John McMillin]

I'm aware of that thread, Mark, the first batch was sold out by the end of November, just before I bought my car. It did look like a better design. I don't have time to wait for another production run, though. We've seta goal of a Grand Canyon visit late in March, timed to my kid's school vacation.

That's more disturbing news, mcbrew. I'd like to find a way to add some metal structure to the inside of the wheel well to distribute those forces, without losing space for the spare.

Conversely, I have a plan to bore out the EZ Hitch's mounting plate to the proper diameter, then saw it in half. You could slip the pieces over the ball and weld them back together in the proper place below the ball-- maybe, if you had good industrial metalworking tools. I'll ask my mechanics about that tomorrow.
The EZ Hitch is so helpful, I can't imagine getting along without it. It gives me the ability to back the car to the trailer, alone, without tears.

[wjquigs]

John,
First let me say I'm not a mechanic or an expert but I've towed thousands of miles, everything from utility trailers to a 32-foot sailboat. I tow a 16' Scamp Deluxe, self-contained, with an air conditioner, that might weigh almost double yours, with a VW Touareg and a Curt hitch. I think you will be fine with the Curt. Keep in mind that most of the weight of the trailer is borne by the axle and you will have 100-300 pounds of tongue weight, so the sheet metal would have to be pretty thin for that setup to damage it. Obviously there are other forces at work, but if you can jump up and down on the hitch, you can probably tow your Scamp. And if Curt made hitches that ripped out of cars, they probably wouldn't be in business very long. Just doing go towing a 6-up horse trailer with it.
I recommend a backup camera (I have heard wired is better than wireless). Mine works great for hooking up the trailer.
I also recommend the Audi factory tow control module and wiring harness and a 7-pin connector. The VW tow control module does nice stuff like turn off the rear collision sensors when the trailer is connected and it connects the trailer wiring to the car alarm so the alarm goes off if it's enabled and somebody disconnects your trailer. I'm sure the Audi module is similar. The 7-pin connector will allow you to install a brake controller (which will save wear and tear on those expensive Audi brakes) and will be safer. It will also charge the Scamp's battery when you're driving (a 4-pin connector will not).

Bill

Originally Posted by John McMillin

I'm aware of that thread, Mark, the first batch was sold out by the end of November, just before I bought my car. It did look like a better design. I don't have time to wait for another production run, though. We've seta goal of a Grand Canyon visit late in March, timed to my kid's school vacation.

That's more disturbing news, mcbrew. I'd like to find a way to add some metal structure to the inside of the wheel well to distribute those forces, without losing space for the spare.

Conversely, I have a plan to bore out the EZ Hitch's mounting plate to the proper diameter, then saw it in half. You could slip the pieces over the ball and weld them back together in the proper place below the ball-- maybe, if you had good industrial metalworking tools. I'll ask my mechanics about that tomorrow.
The EZ Hitch is so helpful, I can't imagine getting along without it. It gives me the ability to back the car to the trailer, alone, without tears.

[John McMillin]

Thanks for the advice. My trailer is set up with a 7-pin. I wouldn't be without my Prodigy electric brake controller, though I'm often surprised at how little I use the brakes in normal towing. Engine braking and air resistance are usually enough, with proper planning.

Another vote for the Curt from someone who tows a similar rig (my Scamp has never weighed more than 2200 lbs loaded, but that's taken attention to the gear I carry-- no iron pots!).

I just went out and inspected my Forester. It's Class II hitch is a Draw-Tite, not a Curt. It bolts to the subframe supporting the rear bumper, like the Bonsal. Hmmm...

[mcbrew]

I just want to make it clear: I am a big fan of Curt hitches. I have had six of them on different cars and vans. I have never had an issue with them. They seem to be better built than most of the competition. What I have a problem with is the lack of proper mounting points on the VW.

Bill: I personally know two people who have had hitches ripped out of their VWs. Keep in mind these are class 1 hitches that bolt to thin sheet metal that can be dented by hand.

In my Sprinter, there are nice, beefy frame channels to bolt onto... Same with my Chevy van and my Subaru Outback. My Scion had existing weld nuts, and the hitch also bolted to the shipping tie-downs. VWs and Audis make great tow vehicles. They design them to tow. They just don't design them with a place for American-style hitches to mount securely. Maybe the Touareg does, but the cars don't.

EDIT: Just looked up the Curt hitch for the Touareg, and it mounts like the Euro hitch, by bolting to the existing holes in the ends of the frame rails. I'm glad they went that route.

[Mike Magee]

Here's an alternative aid to the EZ Hitch:
Trailer Alignment Kit - Magnetic Trailer Alignment Kit
I use some similar to these, and they work very well.

[John McMillin]

That's pretty cool-- I hadn't seen that. Looks like a good plan B!

[John McMillin]

Today I made the choice, and did the deed. After spending seven hours and $400 at the shop, my hitch was installed. My wife was puzzled, though: "The car looks just the same." Right-o, because I installed the Bosal, whose removable tongue and ball are tucked away in the trunk.

The installation was no small matter. The job took about seven hours for an experienced tech, but he only charged me for four. He had to grind away a small part of the rear bumper reinforcement to fit it back on over the hitch. The instructions list 12 steps, but he seemed to find some hidden ones.

The finished product seems massively strong. It makes the thin steel-strap, H-shaped Curt hitch seem like a fly rod. I wanted to like the Curt hitch for its convenience. I tried not to be swayed about the $600 I could save by using it. What could I spend that on-- the repair bill for that dying hard drive last week? A set of winter wheels? Cleaning my dog's bad teeth? But once my main mechanic told me about seeing the same hitches tearing free from the spare wheel-well mounting, plus mcbrew's tales, I couldn't put that doubt out of mind.

Imagination activated, I considered the possible consequences of hitch failure. At the least, I'd be stranded on some remote Indian reservation with a trailer I couldn't tow any farther, meaning a ruined vacation (isn't that what RV stands for?), and paying to flatbed the trailer home, do body repairs and install a Bosal. A worse failure at high speed might mean the trailer wasn't worth bringing home, in pieces. There are even worse scenarios, too. Even if nothing happened, I'd still be uneasy...

Vacations aren't time for any such thoughts. Instead I'll be thinking about how this is the best tow car I've ever had, with a hitch that's as rugged as the car itself. No weak links -- that's the goal. I'm sorry that I had to spend $1,000 to get this far, and I still have to put $300+ into the brake controller & installation. The whole tow conversion will cost about $1300-- about twice what I spent on the Forester. But you get more, too. I know I'd rather sit in the Audi on a long, long drive.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep you posted. I hope to be writing in early April that the allroad really is the ultimate tow car.

[Voodoo]

wise choice.. son't think of it as spending twice what you wanted to. think of it as saving money in the long run. after all, Replacing the trailer would cost more than double what you spent for your new hitch..

[Mike Magee]

Peace of mind is worth some extra bucks, for sure.

[John McMillin]

Originally Posted by Voodoo

wise choice.. son't think of it as spending twice what you wanted to. think of it as saving money in the long run. after all, Replacing the trailer would cost more than double what you spent for your new hitch..

I dunno, my Scamp is pretty skimpy and it came real cheap! But what price peace of mind?

[Andrew Gibbens]

The tow-hitch issue seems to be one place where US and Euro legislation differ quite a bit.

In all European countries a tow-hitch (not a receiver, since we only use one ball size and height) must not only pass strength tests, but it must also attach to the tow vehicle exactly as and where the vehicle manufacturer specifies. If the vehicle manufacturer decides not to bother doing this, as for example on my Mini, any tow-hitch is illegal, even just to carry bicycles. There are no classes of tow-hitch - if you sell a hitch for a particular vehicle, it must be good for at least the full tow rating for the vehicle.

My understanding, mostly from posts on this forum, is that US tow-hitch manufacturers must pass similar strength tests, but the test tow-hitch is bolted to a test rig which may be much stronger at the attachment points than the real vehicle. It seems to be entirely the tow-hitch manufacturer's decision about how to attach the hitch, though clearly if the vehicle manufacturer has made a provision for attaching a hitch, like vacant holes in chassis rails, the hitch manufacturer is likely to use them.

So this matches mcbrew's comments about vehicle, not tow-hitch, failure.

[John McMillin]

So what we get in the US is a tested hitch product that's adapted to various vehicles in untested ways. Some would call that "jury-rigging." It works out in most cases, because 90% of us tow with trucks and SUVs that were built with frame or subframes readily accessible for accessory attachments. The Curt hitch looks like a standard design, adapted to mount to the Audi at the only available point that's not cluttered with dual exhausts and other hardware. That just happens to be a weak point on the body structure.

Safe towing behind cars demands a more holistic look at the car-hitch relationship. That's what the European regs demand, and it's probably wise.

Folks look at me like I'm crazy when I say I tow a one-ton trailer behind a car. That's what trucks are for, they're taught. (No, I try not to say out loud-- trucks are like elevator shoes and shoulder pads for timid and aggressive motorists who want to lord over other drivers and throw their weight around in traffic.) If all I wanted to do was tow, I might choose a truck. But since I can't afford or park a large number of specialized vehicles, I wanted a sporty, comfortable and versatile vehicle that could tow now and then. I think that's what I found. (I also wanted a MINI, but how would you hitch it with those exhaust pipes in the middle?)

If you go back and look at the history of egg trailers, you find a similar founding concept. These small, lightweight trailers were intended to be towed behind ordinary cars. I bet few were using heavy-duty pickups to tow their brand-new Boler or Perris Pacer, back in the Johnson Administration. We've lost touch with that original intention today, and that's kind of sad...

[Carol H]

Andrew I can see where the comments made by McBrew may have created some confusion for you as to what the normal practices are in regards to installing hitches in North America.

Just like in Europe the hitch company's do build North American style hitches that are designed specifically for each vehicle type and manufactures attachment points and towing capacity - although as you point out we have three classes of hitches so in a few cases you may have a hitch installed that is rated a bit higher than what the tow capacity set by the vehicle manufacture but in that case you are still limited to towing to the manufactures tow cap - you can also put a hitch on that is rated lower but of course you would be limited to the hitch tow capacity rating in that case. It is also not the common practice of a hitch manufacture to build a class of hitch for a specific vehicle that is greater than the class that has been set by the vehicle manufacture. For example if the tow capacity of the vehicle falls into a Class II hitch they will not build a Class III hitch for that vehicle. Just like in Europe we are suppose to attach the hitch where the vehicle manufacture has made provisions for it on the chassis- such a pre drilled holes etc.

If a person installs on a North American built vehicle a North American style hitch that was specifically designed for their vehicle and its attached per the vehicles manufactures attachment points - there should be no issues with vehicle failure - providing the owner maintains the hitch and the person is not towing something over the vehicles &/or tow hitches set weight capacities.

The problem is that some people want to use a style of hitch such as the Euro style that the vehicle manufactures in North American do not design their cars to use. As a result many of the Euro style hitches do not match the attachment system that North American vehicle manufactures do put on their vehicles at the factory. Additionally in many cases in order to install a Euro style tow hitch on a North American car they actually need to cut away parts of the car - most often structural components of the rear bumper area - components that are required by law to be built into all North American cars for safety reasons. It is my understanding that what McBrew is suggesting is due to the fact people need to beef up attachments points etc & cut parts away to use the Euro hitch on a North American built car - its the cars failure not the hitches. I suspect that a few car designers in North America may not totally agree with that analogy of the problem.

[BCDave]

Originally Posted by John McMillin

If you go back and look at the history of egg trailers, you find a similar founding concept. These small, lightweight trailers were intended to be towed behind ordinary cars. I bet few were using heavy-duty pickups to tow their brand-new Boler or Perris Pacer, back in the Johnson Administration. We've lost touch with that original intention today, and that's kind of sad...

Actually we have NOT changed. Back during the Johnson Administration, "an ordinary car" was a V8, rear-wheel drive with body-on-frame construction. That is the type of vehicle these were built to be towed with. I still tow with a V8 rear-wheel drive, body-on-frame vehicle. To get one of those I must now select a vehicle with a pick-up truck body on the frame.....

[John McMillin]

Carol discusses the issues of putting Euro hitches on American cars. That my indeed be problematic. But how often does it happen? American car buyers have a huge range of American trucks and SUVs to choose from, that would tow better. German car fanciers don't. We have to hunt down rare Euro hitches to fit our unusual vehicles. So my problem was just the opposite: I rejected an American hitch offered as the safe, mainstream option for my Euro car.

Regardless of national origins, I'd be suspicious of any hitch that braces against up and down motions by a simple T bolted to the spare tire well, as the Curt does. I imagine that T-design is offered for a range of cars besides the Audi Allroad (a pretty rare model). I don't think it would be any safer bolted to a Ford of Chevy sedan. I bet mcbrew will second me on that...

[John McMillin]

I just came across a site called autoanything that advertises an "Audi A6 Fifth Wheel Hitch." Probably not useable with my station wagon, do ya'thiink? But they'll sell it to you to bolt on back of your sedan.

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Andrew I can see where the comments made by McBrew may have created some confusion for you as to what the normal practices are in regards to installing hitches in North America.

Just like in Europe the hitch company's do build North American style hitches that are designed specifically for each vehicle type and manufactures attachment points and towing capacity - although as you point out we have three classes of hitches so in a few cases you may have a hitch installed that is rated a bit higher than what the tow capacity set by the vehicle manufacture but in that case you are still limited to towing to the manufactures tow cap - you can also put a hitch on that is rated lower but of course you would be limited to the hitch tow capacity rating in that case. It is also not the common practice of a hitch manufacture to build a class of hitch for a specific vehicle that is greater than the class that has been set by the vehicle manufacture. For example if the tow capacity of the vehicle falls into a Class II hitch they will not build a Class III hitch for that vehicle. Just like in Europe we are suppose to attach the hitch where the vehicle manufacture has made provisions for it on the chassis- such a pre drilled holes etc.

If a person installs on a North American built vehicle a North American style hitch that was specifically designed for their vehicle and its attached per the vehicles manufactures attachment points - there should be no issues with vehicle failure - providing the owner maintains the hitch and the person is not towing something over the vehicles &/or tow hitches set weight capacities.

The problem is that some people want to use a style of hitch such as the Euro style that the vehicle manufactures in North American do not design their cars to use. As a result many of the Euro style hitches do not match the attachment system that North American vehicle manufactures do put on their vehicles at the factory. Additionally in many cases in order to install a Euro style tow hitch on a North American car they actually need to cut away parts of the car - most often structural components of the rear bumper area - components that are required by law to be built into all North American cars for safety reasons. It is my understanding that what McBrew is suggesting is due to the fact people need to beef up attachments points etc & cut parts away to use the Euro hitch on a North American built car - its the cars failure not the hitches. I suspect that a few car designers in North America may not totally agree with that analogy of the problem.

Carol, not sure what part of my post(s) you were referring to.

Many US-made hitches (Curt, Hidden Hitch, DrawTite, etc) are not designed to use existing mounting points.. Especially on small cars and foreign cars. There are a few reasons for this. One is that a lot of small American cars don't have a good place for a hitch to install. Most cars that are sold in Europe do, no matter where the car is made. Another reason many American hitches won't just bolt up to an import car is that it might be in conflict with American bumper standards. It's not that a Euro hitch won't bolt up... It will... But they usually bolt up where the bumper goes, and sometimes quirks moving the bumper shocks that are necessary to conform with US bumper standards. I personally don't care, because the car is designed to pass Euro safety ratings with the hitch installed.

There usually is no cutting or custom work required to install a Euro hitch. They just bolt up. There is often custom drilling or cutting required to install an American style hitch, though. Such is the case with the Audi in question, because the hitch bolts to the thin sheet metal of the spare to well, instead of where Audi wants you to mount a proper hitch.

[Carol H]

As post #47 clearly shows the suggestion that the Euro Hitch "just bolt up" does not hold true in this case. Actually very familiar with the Audi and the last time I checked they are of European design as well. Actually have gotten to ride in one of the first R8 5.2 convertibles shipped to Canada. To bad it cant tow as that would indeed be the ultimate tow vehicle - although the owner might protest if I suggested it, as they don't even like me towing with my Outback as far and as much as I do. They are a big fan of the Outback but are of the opinion that I over abuse my vehicles :-)))

My concern with this tread is that people who are new to towing and or live in another country may be lead to believe through the comments made here in regards to using a Euro hitches on a NA built car, that we have no standards/legislation in regards to hitches & that if they install a Euro hitch its not going to change the vehicle's safety features which are in fact legislated or better known in the US as a legal requirement. Worse still someone from outside NA appears to think as a result of comments made here that vehicle manufactures don't strength test the tow capacity of their vehicles or its ability to safely tow without failure with the class of hitch & within the tow cap specs they have set.

Jesse I suspect you and I are never going to totally agree on this topic. I also have no doubt that with specific vehicles especially with those built or designed in Europe a good case can be made for the use of a euro hitch vs a NA designed hitch and it may in fact be very justifiable. My concern over this thread is the same as when people make suggestions to those new to towing that is ok to tow over a vehicles towing cap or/or make *big* changes to how they stow their trailer to get the tongue weight down, without also giving a warning that if one follows that advise they may be compromising their safety &/or their legal liability.

I know I am staring to sound like my mother so will leave it at that.

[BCDave]

Exactly - (or Eggs-acktly?) What she said, X2!

[mcbrew]

Carol, please understand that I am also concerned for the safety of others. That is exactly why I was pushing for a Euro style hitch for this European vehicle. There are already many cases of American style hitches failing on similar vehicles because they DO NOT use manufacturer approved mounting points.

Having said that, I use an American hitch (Curt) on my American built (Japanese designed) car -- a Subaru Outback. Yes, there are European hitches for this car with a greater tow rating (up to 4,400 pounds for an H6 powered Outback), but I feel comfortable with the way the Curt hitch attaches to the frame rails on the Outback. Curt does rate the hitch to a higher weight limit than the car is rated for in the US (350/3,500), but I am not suggesting that anyone exceed the limit that Subaru's North American division uses.