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Old 09-14-2019, 03:03 PM   #21
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A friend of mine tows his race car with his Sienna van - I think its around eight years old.
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Old 09-15-2019, 06:56 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by stevebell View Post
MPG - When thinking about a newer tow vehicle I keep thinking about MPG. My personal preference is getting another midsize truck with extra cab. With any vehicle 4x4 is important to me because I do go down the roads less traveled or I don't allow weather to stop be from going somewhere. I am considering a full-sized tuck with a smaller engine. A 1/2ton or 3/4ton is way bigger than I would want. Bottom line is there a tow vehicle that can get 20MPG+ or am I wishing upon a star?
I think a late '90s Dodge Cummins could tow a 13'er and get 20 mpg, or close to it. Those early ones had a smaller displacement Cummins than in later years, and if you kept the diesel in the optimal RPM band you could get great cruising mileage.


A Jetta or Passat could do it too, but you'd have to closely watch the hitch integrity... they aren't rated for that much weight.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:45 AM   #23
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Once again the towing topic just goes around in circles, those who want to tow with what I would call a under powered, under equipped, under everything vehicle will continue to do so, regardless of what other tell them. Many look for the answers that works for them and will disregard the ones that usually involve spending more money to achieve the proper towing vehicle. I feel many live there lives this way on all there decisions, may it be right, or wrong they put there habits ahead of what would be the better decision in the long run. Personally these people are putting there safety and mine at risk, which if you can't have a properly equipped tow vehicle then stay off the road. Tent camping is still a respectable way to camp, you should stay in that group and travel in whatever you want. This was posted to help keep future travel trailer owners to stay within there tow vehicle limits and purchase what will do the job correctly, not to insult, but to keep you thinking of all that is required for safe towing.

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Old 09-16-2019, 08:23 AM   #24
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Circles, indeed. It was only a matter of time before someone would mention a 3/4T diesel truck in a thread about towing a Boler!
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Old 09-16-2019, 09:56 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by thrifty bill View Post
While towing? Yes you are wishing. The smaller stuff tends to get slammed MPG wise when towing. When not towing, sure. The Ford eco-boost line tends to get great mileage for a truck. And there are diesel options out there too.

How many miles a year do you drive? Say it’s 10,000 miles a year. The difference between 15mpg and 20mpg is less than $400 in gas per year, or about $1/day.

If you go diesel, depending where you live it can be 75 cents more per gallon.

Once you hook up to a trailer, my full sized F-150 with a 5.4L V8 does as well as my friends ecoboost. And when towing my little Trillium mileage is higher than when I am not towing (I tend to slow down some).

Toyota’s are great but the Tacoma and Tundra both get mediocre mileage. Ford has bet the entire company on trucks and SUVs.

And FWIW, the small trucks have gotten so big you don’t save much size wise. Perhaps the Frontier is a little smaller.

If you want to camp AND get great mileage, then a Prius with a tent can’t be beat!
"Tends" is a rather amorphous term.
Fact is a 13ft fiberglass trailer was built specifically to be towed by what you call smaller stuff.
I tow exclusively with "smaller stuff" and have never gotten "slammed"when it comes to towing, especially when the trailer is proportionally "smaller stuff" as well... After all, that's the point ain't it?


Towing my 13Scamp with several "smaller stuff" vehicles over the years I have never gotten less than "EPA city" mileage when towing and generally a couple MPG better.


Sure, a 6000 pound truck can be configured to tow a 6000 pound trailer better than a smaller vehicle could, but it is just silly to claim that a 3500 pound vehicle could not be configured to tow a 2000 pound trailer more efficiently.


There is a lot more to proper towing than engine size.
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Old 09-16-2019, 09:57 AM   #26
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Trainman, well put! There are those that are looking for confirmation, as long as someone else does it, it must be OK. I recall the guy that wanted to tow a Hunter Compact behind a motorcycle.

Anything works until it doesn’t. There is no prize for ignoring vehicle manufacturer ratings, not getting real weights on your trailer or whatever.

Now the 13 footers are certainly easier to tow than the larger stuff. You don’t need an F150 to pull one. But my Trillium weighs more than the tow limit on my Honda Element so I am not going there.
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Old 09-16-2019, 09:59 AM   #27
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I ordered a 4.3 V6 GMC Safari with the towing package specifically for towing my trailer and it does so with no problem. I chose the van over the truck because I can carry a lot of cargo in my van whether towing my trailer or not. As a boondocker I often leave my trailer at the campsite and commute back and forth in my van with supplies etc.
I also have a 3/4 ton diesel truck which can carry my ATVs and tow my trailer at the same time. When towing BOTH vehicles get about 16 - 18 MPG (Canadian gallon).

I measured my fuel consumption in my diesel last week with one ATV on the back and several days of camping supplies and got a solid 23 MPG. Towing my trailer this drops down to 16 - 18 MPG.
Using my gas powered van I get the same fuel mileage while towing (no ATVs) and mid to high 20's when not towing.
In my 30 plus years of towing experience I've never found a cheap tow vehicle. You're moving a large mass with all the aerodynamics of a brick at highway speeds and/or up and down steep grades. This requires energy and high energy production equates to fuel consumption, big engine or small engine.
Small engines work much harder to produce the required energy compared to larger engines but the fuel consumption doesn't differ much when towing. When towing, larger vehicles are much more stable and have reserve power if needed. When not towing, smaller engines get better fuel mileage.
It basically comes down to what you want in a tug and what you need.

I use my diesel for little else except towing and it gets the same fuel mileage as my 1/2 ton gas van but is much more stable. If fuel consumption is similar, I'd much rather tow with the heavier and more stable vehicle. If I didn't have a vehicle just for towing I'd likely go with the 1/2 ton van.
When used only as a tug it's my experience that big engines don't use more fuel than small engines, they just don't work as hard. Also, not working as hard means that big engines last much longer that smaller ones.
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Old 09-16-2019, 10:26 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by trainman View Post
Once again the towing topic just goes around in circles, those who want to tow with what I would call a under powered, under equipped, under everything vehicle will continue to do so, regardless of what other tell them. Many look for the answers that works for them and will disregard the ones that usually involve spending more money to achieve the proper towing vehicle. I feel many live there lives this way on all there decisions, may it be right, or wrong they put there habits ahead of what would be the better decision in the long run. Personally these people are putting there safety and mine at risk, which if you can't have a properly equipped tow vehicle then stay off the road. Tent camping is still a respectable way to camp, you should stay in that group and travel in whatever you want. This was posted to help keep future travel trailer owners to stay within there tow vehicle limits and purchase what will do the job correctly, not to insult, but to keep you thinking of all that is required for safe towing.

trainman

Its not a matter of what you call, "under powered, under equipped,or under everything".

Most of those who tow while suffering your disdain, do so well within safe limits, despite your proscriptive limitations.

Your comment is just as presumptive as those you falsely accuse, and certainly condescending (and insulting) as well.
Many of us with no use for an oversized vehicle, are at least as competent as you, and able to exercise good judgement as well.
I dare claim that distinction, if it amounts to one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



So... if you need a 3/4 ton dually diesel to tow a Scamp13, with what do you tow a 40 foot triple axle fifthwheel?
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Old 09-16-2019, 10:46 AM   #29
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I thought this thread was about occasional towing of a 13ft Boler.
Why do these threads always go so over-the-top?
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Old 09-16-2019, 10:55 AM   #30
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I thought this thread was about occasional towing of a 13ft Boler.
Why do these threads always go so over-the-top?

You have a Bigfoot. Why do you care?
Anyway, it's for the sake of argument.
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Old 09-20-2019, 02:18 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by stevebell View Post
MPG - When thinking about a newer tow vehicle I keep thinking about MPG. My personal preference is getting another midsize truck with extra cab. With any vehicle 4x4 is important to me because I do go down the roads less traveled or I don't allow weather to stop be from going somewhere. I am considering a full-sized tuck with a smaller engine. A 1/2ton or 3/4ton is way bigger than I would want. Bottom line is there a tow vehicle that can get 20MPG+ or am I wishing upon a star?
Best bet for 20MPG towing a very small trailer like the 13' Scamp would be a small diesel, I'd imagine. Chevy Colorado maybe, or a Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel. Or a BMW x3 diesel. Something like a Highlander Hybrid might get you there or close to it as well, although generally hybrid doesn't help as much for highway towing.
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Old 09-20-2019, 06:29 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Defenestrator View Post
Best bet for 20MPG towing a very small trailer like the 13' Scamp would be a small diesel, I'd imagine. Chevy Colorado maybe, or a Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel. Or a BMW x3 diesel. Something like a Highlander Hybrid might get you there or close to it as well, although generally hybrid doesn't help as much for highway towing.
Or you can choose to not drive on roads that require you to do 70 MPH to keep up with traffic. I tow my 13 foot Boler (1250 pounds) with a 2017 Subaru Crosstrek(1500 lb tow rating). I have brakes on the trailer so I can stop almost(about 1/2 to 1 1/2 car lengths more depending upon speed) as good as when I am in the vehicle alone. I mostly take roads that have a 55 MPH speed limit or less and get close to 24 MPG towing. To me it makes no sense to get to my destination so wound up from the drive that I can't think straight. I just enjoy the journey and see a lot of interesting things. My trips go through the Berkshires of Mass and I go into the Catskills and have gone all the way to South Carolina. Just to be safe, I have purchased a wireless OBD device so on my next trip I can see what my car's metrics are.
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Old 09-20-2019, 02:36 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by stevebell View Post
MPG - When thinking about a newer tow vehicle I keep thinking about MPG. My personal preference is getting another midsize truck with extra cab. With any vehicle 4x4 is important to me because I do go down the roads less traveled or I don't allow weather to stop be from going somewhere. I am considering a full-sized tuck with a smaller engine. A 1/2ton or 3/4ton is way bigger than I would want. Bottom line is there a tow vehicle that can get 20MPG+ or am I wishing upon a star?

I have a Diesel Chevy Colorado and am towing a Bigfoot 21RB. Max towing capacity of 7500 lbs. On multiple trips, I have seen real world towing milages of between 16.7 to 19 mpg with the trailer loaded anywhere between 4800 - 5220 lbs axle weight (per CAT scale) / and right around 500 - 550 tongue weight (per my Sherline scale.) The truck gets 30mpg hwy when not towing.



I would guess towing a smaller trailer one could get over 20mpg.
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Old 09-20-2019, 03:15 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Alex Adams View Post
Or you can choose to not drive on roads that require you to do 70 MPH to keep up with traffic. I tow my 13 foot Boler (1250 pounds) with a 2017 Subaru Crosstrek(1500 lb tow rating). I have brakes on the trailer so I can stop almost(about 1/2 to 1 1/2 car lengths more depending upon speed) as good as when I am in the vehicle alone. I mostly take roads that have a 55 MPH speed limit or less and get close to 24 MPG towing. To me it makes no sense to get to my destination so wound up from the drive that I can't think straight. I just enjoy the journey and see a lot of interesting things. My trips go through the Berkshires of Mass and I go into the Catskills and have gone all the way to South Carolina. Just to be safe, I have purchased a wireless OBD device so on my next trip I can see what my car's metrics are.
How does cruising at 60MPH, no cross traffic, no pedestrians, no in town, no stop signs, cause you to get wound up?


AHHH! sit back and enjoy...
Cruise control set, climate control set, GPS on,relaxed and alert.

I prefer the Interstate for long trips... when towing I never conflict with traffic. Just try and stay out of the left lane.
It is seldom crowded in rural areas and I doubt you want to get on the side streets in the cities.

Back roads are great for exploring and stopping at every garage sale and junk shop...love them too, but not in January when I look for a window to get south of the snow in the first eight hours, or when my destination is more attractive than 300 miles of corn and bean fields.
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Old 09-21-2019, 12:12 AM   #35
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You obviously have never driven I-95 on the East Coast! It sometimes seems like you are in a canyon with all the 18-wheelers doing 70 + down the highway.
Same with the NY Thruway or I-84.
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Old 09-21-2019, 06:48 AM   #36
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Back to the towing drawing board

I have, Alex- Washington DC to Bangor ME this past June. Our destination was the Maritimes, and for just getting there I95 was efficient, and not so bad driving, really- just expensive with all the tolls. Like I5 in CA, timing is everything. We passed NYC at 9pm on a weeknight.

After Bangor the real fun started.

I tend to agree with Floyd. Sometimes it’s about the journey, and sometimes it’s about the destination. Interstates are great for putting miles behind you. Routes with towns and traffic lights really kill your fuel mileage and travel time.

Back in the Southwest I tow 65 mph in the right lane of 75 mph interstates. Fuel economy is what it is, averaging about 18 mpg towing our Scamp 13 with a V6 crossover. Truck traffic generally flows about 70 mph.

Over 20 mpg towing a travel trailer is possible but mostly unrealistic. It’s a lot like 50 mpg in a passenger vehicle. You can go the technology route or you can go the hypermile route, sometimes a little of both. Either way it costs.
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