Changing from a fifth wheel

[greenmtnman]

hello

Im looking at a Scamp 5wheel, My truck wont take a 5wheel. But I have seen some 5wheel change to a normal ball frame hitch.

My question to one and all is should this be done and if yes how?
And how safe would that be?

So the light weight of the scamp and the good price is what makes this a good deal. My tv is 01 ford explorer sport trac.

What do you all say? I did look for a email for scamp but can't locate one

thanks
lk

[Ken C]

I wonder if the sliding 5th hitch would work with scamp ball conversion. To give your short bed enough clearance. There is a very active scamp yahoo group if you don't get your answer here.

[Eddie Longest]

My guess the tongue weight would be 500 lbs. +
Eddie

[Jared J]

Ok, first off...the scamp isn't a fifth wheel, or a gooseneck. I wish they would stop advertising it as such.

So...is your problem that there isn't a fifth wheel hitch made for your vehicle, or that there is no way you can have a hitch mounted in your bed? Even with plastic beds, you can usually mount one, but I haven't looked under a sport-trac.

Without seeing an owner's manual, my feeling is you would be pushing your luck, especially with tongue weight, and would have to have a wd hitch at the least.

[Brian B-P]

There's no need to convert a Scamp 19' to avoid a fifth-wheel, since it isn't one. It has a common coupler to go on a 2" ball mounted in the truck box.

If the truck won't take a fifth-wheel hitch mounted in the box, it won't take a ball hitch mounted in the box, either. Lenny, why do you think the Sport Trac won't take a fifth-wheel? We have at least one member towing a Scamp 19' with a Sport Trac, and that one even converted to a fifth-wheel... although the one I recall is the second-generation Sport Trac.

If you're talking about converting a perfectly good Scamp 19' into a bizarre conventional trailer and hitching it behind the truck... others have done this. Personally, I see no point - why not buy a more suitable trailer? This has been discussed extensively in this forum, and I don't have any more to add.

[greenmtnman]

Thanks to all of your replies. Very useful for sure.
I hope the person with the ford ex sport trac who did this change will reply to this thread.

thanks to all hoping more will reply

[peterh]

I've looked at the Sport Trac, and thought it would be a nice TV for our 5er.

To get the trailer onto the truck we'd have to add a frame spacer (3" box beams) between the frame and trailer axle mount and build a slightly modified gooseneck hitch mount that locates the ball a few inches aft of the axle to give us more room between the trailer and back window of the truck. You want to be able to jack-kife teh trailer to 90 degrees without hitting your back window with the trailer loft.

[Brian B-P]

Sport Trac towing Scamp 19':
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...elp-29097.html

There's at least one more, but I didn't find it in a quick search.

[jwcolby54]

Brian, my reason for doing so is that i have a cap on my truck which i don't want to remove, yet i like the scamp 5er. It is a bizarre looking conversion but who cares if it works.

The point of a 5er is to deal with heavy tongue weights for huge tts. But the scamp 5er isn't huge and its tongue weight isn't all that huge either.

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

Brian, my reason for doing so is that i have a cap on my truck which i don't want to remove, yet i like the scamp 5er. It is a bizarre looking conversion but who cares if it works.

The point of a 5er is to deal with heavy tongue weights for huge tts. But the scamp 5er isn't huge and its tongue weight isn't all that huge either.

For a sport-trac, it is as a bumper pull.

[Bob Miller]

Ball hitches and single axles aside, lets all agree that any trailer that connects to a hitch in the middle of the truck bed is a "5th Wheel" and let it go at that. Otherwise we will have to tell all those truckers that they are actually pulling a 9th wheel trailer etc..... For those that still insist, please be sure you are not "$$$ing" into the wind.

I have seen at least one "conversion" of a Scamp 5th to a ball hitch and three issues are immediate:

1. Tongue weight: Somehow I don't think that something like 500+ lbs on a receiver hitch is all that swooft.
2. Attaching to the Scamp: The one I saw looked like it was putting a lot of stress on the lower frame sections that weren't designed for that load.
3. Design & Liability: I can't imaging what the Ins company might say if there was an accident while towing with that Disneyesque arrangement.

[greenmtnman]

Originally Posted by peterh

I've looked at the Sport Trac, and thought it would be a nice TV for our 5er.

To get the trailer onto the truck we'd have to add a frame spacer (3" box beams) between the frame and trailer axle mount and build a slightly modified gooseneck hitch mount that locates the ball a few inches aft of the axle to give us more room between the trailer and back window of the truck. You want to be able to jack-kife teh trailer to 90 degrees without hitting your back window with the trailer loft.

Are you saying this is what you did for Sport trac?
Could you send me pictures?
Is there any company making a 5thw hock up for a ST?

MY ST is 01V6

thanks

[greenmtnman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterh
I've looked at the Sport Trac, and thought it would be a nice TV for our 5er.

To get the trailer onto the truck we'd have to add a frame spacer (3" box beams) between the frame and trailer axle mount and build a slightly modified gooseneck hitch mount that locates the ball a few inches aft of the axle to give us more room between the trailer and back window of the truck. You want to be able to jack-kife teh trailer to 90 degrees without hitting your back window with the trailer loft.

Are you saying this is what you did for Sport trac?
Could you send me pictures?
Is there any company making a 5thw hock up for a ST?

MY ST is 01V6

thanks

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Ball hitches and single axles aside, lets all agree that any trailer that connects to a hitch in the middle of the truck bed is a "5th Wheel" and let it go at that. Otherwise we will have to tell all those truckers that they are actually pulling a 9th wheel trailer etc..... For those that still insist, please be sure you are not "$$$ing" into the wind.

I have seen at least one "conversion" of a Scamp 5th to a ball hitch and three issues are immediate:

1. Tongue weight: Somehow I don't think that something like 500+ lbs on a receiver hitch is all that swooft.
2. Attaching to the Scamp: The one I saw looked like it was putting a lot of stress on the lower frame sections that weren't designed for that load.
3. Design & Liability: I can't imaging what the Ins company might say if there was an accident while towing with that Disneyesque arrangement.

I would rather not, it causes confusion calling them fifth wheels. Fifth wheels have a kingpin that mounts above the bed floor, goosenecks have a 2-5/16" or 3" ball close to the bed floor.

I towed mine home as a bumper pull with a hitch the PO made.





It worked, but only because I have a 1/2 ton, and it pulls MUCH better as a fifth wheel.

[carlkeigley]

After reading your rebuild thread Jared, I now understand what everyone is
talking about the difference in Scamps system.......LOL
I can see Scamp is not a goose-neck or a fifth wheel.


BOB: "Otherwise we will have to tell all those truckers that they are actually pulling a 9th wheel trailer etc....."

As an ex-truck driver I was having the same thoughts............LOL
Only I was a eleventh-wheel trucker.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by carlkeigley

After reading your rebuild thread Jared, I now understand what everyone is
talking about the difference in Scamps system.......LOL
I can see Scamp is not a goose-neck or a fifth wheel.


BOB: "Otherwise we will have to tell all those truckers that they are actually pulling a 9th wheel trailer etc....."

As an ex-truck driver I was having the same thoughts............LOL
Only I was a eleventh-wheel trucker.

But it is a 5er,just because that's what we call it.
Escape has an Escape 17,an Escape 19 soon to have an Escape 21. and an EScape 5.0 which I am sure doesn't mean 5FT!

[carlkeigley]

LOL.
If the trailer has a single axle, it's 3er from that vantage.
If the tow is a dually, it's a 6er from that vantage. LOL

[Donna D.]

The hitch Scamp uses for their 5er, can either be a plus or a minus. Plus = typically no one can just hookup and tow it off! A true passive theft prevention system. Minus = if you break down on the road... finding a tow company to help can be a PITA.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by carlkeigley

After reading your rebuild thread Jared, I now understand what everyone is
talking about the difference in Scamps system.......LOL
I can see Scamp is not a goose-neck or a fifth wheel.


BOB: "Otherwise we will have to tell all those truckers that they are actually pulling a 9th wheel trailer etc....."

As an ex-truck driver I was having the same thoughts............LOL
Only I was a eleventh-wheel trucker.

Thanks for the comments....

But I was wondering, exactly who is confused by the different names?
When someone sez 5th wheel RV to me I don't stop to think about correct terminology or how the trailer is actually connected to the TV. I, like most others just think about a trailer connected to something in the bed rather than the A$$ end of the TV.

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Thanks for the comments....

But I was wondering, exactly who is confused by the different names?
When someone sez 5th wheel RV to me I don't stop to think about correct terminology or how the trailer is actually connected to the TV. I, like most others just think about a trailer connected to something in the bed rather than the A$$ end of the TV.

I was, for starters. I thought I was buying a fifth wheel. Luckily the owner corrected me on that before I got it. Then I thought HE was the one that rigged it. Then I found out it was factory.

Nobody I know considers a fifth wheel to be "a trailer connected to something in the bed". It's a fifth wheel, or a gooseneck...or a scamp.

This is a fifth wheel:



Which means you need a hitch like this:



This is a gooseneck:



Which means you need a hitch like this (sorry, just took it out in the dark):



This is scamps goofy proprietary setup:



I don't have a picture of the hitch, since I told him to scrap it. He had a receiver hitch adapter for it that I used to get it home, and I didn't want to haul the scamp hitch home.

This is what you end up with when you have a fifth wheel and try to get a "fifth wheel" scamp:



If you can't look at the pictures and see how it's confusing...I guess I can't help.