Considering 13' - towable by VW?

[Eit B]

We just rented a 13' Boler for a week and towed it with our pt cruiser up and down the mountains of bc without any problems what soever and our tow rating is also a 1000lb (in europe its 2500lb with a smaller engine) I don't there is going to be a problem.

[Raya]

If you read back in this thread, you'll see some posts that detail the issues when you are towing over your vehicle's rated limit. It can be done, but the question is, whether it should be done.

Raya

[Joe Diaz]

Roger, I refreshed my memory on the teardrop trailers and went back to a couple of mfrs' sites. Way too claustrophobic - might as well sleep in the hatchback. My only real alternative is a Tentrax. But that is just a tent trailer. No refrig., no facilities - just a bed. The weight restriction with the VW is a killer.

Listen My name is Joe and I have a VW air-cooled shop here in Fl. I have been restoring bugs and buses and all things aircooled from the 50's 60' and 70's. Believe me when I tell you that a bug or beetle as you might call it will be struggling to pull and 1200 pound casita, boler, Scamp or anything else that is in that 13' range!....That is why the Germans made the Eriba Puck out of aluminum and that weighs 760 pounds. I had a 1978 bus pulling a 13' boler and the motor in the bus was a 2000cc or 2.0 liter motor like they had in the Porche's in the 70's and it was all I could do to get it to 60 mph so if there is someone out there pulling a 13' fiberglass camper with a 1600cc type 1 motor call me at 352-280-0283 and talk to me about getting your engine rebuilt. I would love to do it for you becasue you are putting alot of stress on that little motor!.....thanks Joebugs[at]yahoo.com

[Robin G]

It can be done, but the question is, whether it should be done.

Raya

The answer as Raya is trying to point out is probably not! It's unfortunate that some will try it and then feel they have the right to promote a dangerous scenario. Towing with the perfect tow vehicle/trailer combo can have issues as well. But when you have the correct tow combo your less likely. As I have said in previous post, I don't want to talk anyone into not having a fiberglass egg I just hope they can have the perfect combo cause I want them and the people on the road around them safe. I had left this post alone several pages ago cause I got tired of the crazy promotion of taking a huge risk with someones life, but figure someone still has to speak up, thankfully some have tried to keep drilling safety first. As Raya and I have talked about, it's unfortunate that some newbie puller might read here that its ok. When infact it might not be.

Joe brings up a very valid point as well. What is incorrect towing doing to the vehicle? In my opinion more than the person who chooses to tow incorrectly has the mechanical knowledge to understand.

[Heath G.]

Robin, I have to agree with you about safety first. I have been following this topic here and feel the need to share my two cents. And Maddy I do remember that along time ago in the post you stated that you understood the problames of towing over the legale limit of your rig so this is only for people considering towing over weight. I am a truck driver with 14 years in and over 1.5 million miles. I have seen allot out on the roads and would hate to see anymore trailers of any kind scatterd accros the road any more. I have seen it happen 3 times right in front of me. and 2 of those times it was the correct tow rig for the camper. The problame is, something unexpected happens and a fast manover is made that is like a chain reaction. even if you are trained to deal with adverse driveing conditions, things go wrong. And if you happen to be useing a combination that is over the cars or trucks rateing you are to blame and will loose big. Do not be mistaken. what your rig is rated for is the limit. anything over that is against the law. maybe it is capable of towing it but the law in the US is verry strict about this. it is not just truck drivers that get weighed at those scales you see along the road. if an officer thinks you are towing unsafely they can and will pull you in and check it out. you do not want to pay that fine or be forced to leave your camper there while finding a proper tug to get it home. Please be carefull out there to all and I am sorry if this sound like I am preaching but 1 week ago today I wittnesd a crash of this kind and I do bnot want to see it again. I will remove myself from the soapbox no. and safe camping

[Greg N]

I have towed a 1,200 plus pound teardrop up and down the coast of CA with a Hyundia Elantra, the trailer has no brakes. I have not had any issues with towing and i consistantly drive 65 mph plus on the freeways.
I have done BIT inspections with the Highway Patrol from the up and down the coast and towing a 2,000 pound camper with a vehicle rated at 1,500 or less is not a major concern to anyone enforcing California title13 or the federal title49.
What realy looks odd is a one ton dually towing a 13 ft trailer, if i remember correctly the original brochure for the Burro showed a ford pinto or a chevy chevett towing a 13ft burro on the beach.

[Robin G]

I have towed a 1,200 plus pound teardrop up and down the coast of CA with a Hyundia Elantra, the trailer has no brakes. I have not had any issues with towing and i consistantly drive 65 mph plus on the freeways.
I have done BIT inspections with the Highway Patrol from the up and down the coast and towing a 2,000 pound camper with a vehicle rated at 1,500 or less is not a major concern to anyone enforcing California title13 or the federal title49.
What realy looks odd is a one ton dually towing a 13 ft trailer, if i remember correctly the original brochure for the Burro showed a ford pinto or a chevy chevett towing a 13ft burro on the beach.

Greg, we have all said, it can be done! Not one of us said that a vehicle can't pull something heavier than it's rated to tow. BUT, is it wise? Be thankful nothing has happened to you. Be glad that you haven't had issues. But please be smart enough to not to promote putting someone else in danger.

Even I know that there is a huge difference in the makeup of a Chevy Chevette or Pinto than the cars made today. My first car was a 70 Malibu, I also owned a 04 Malibu. There was a world of difference in the two. Would I have pulled a travel trailer with my 70? (not on your life! It was my baby, hopped up, screaming machine). But could I have, You bet! Not even speaking engine but the weight and solid construction of the car would have easily made it a great tow vehicle. The 04, are you flippen kidding me? Number one, the construction of the car was like flimzy. So you will never convince me that it is safe to do so.


I guess I have to ask everyone who feels they can boast that they have towed with a vehicle that wasn't meant to tow over a certain weight, if they boast to others that you can drive after they have been drinking? Can it be done? Sure! Should it be done? NO!

[Heath G.]

Greg, as I said in my post, the info was intended for people considering doing something that is not recomended or legale and offer up my experince as a profesional driver. it was not ment for someone like you that has already decided that he can do it and that there is not a problame with it. I am not judging you nor anyone else. But like I said I have seen it in front of me, something happens, like you get cut off, or car in nfront is moving way slower than you thought, and bam!! there is nothing more you can do but hang on and pray. I wish you all the best and hope this never happens to you or anyone you convince that this is ok. I really meen that, problame is, things just happen and there is no amount of preperation or skill that you posses that will stop bad things from happening. Again, I really hope everything continuse to gop well for you and everyone.

[Greg N]

As a Big Rig driver you should know that the national transportation saftey administration and Department of Transportation statics states that the real threats arthe tractor trailers that are over GVW, and with the current economic conditions the amount of big rigs that are running without insurance, 2 log books, and out of service maintenance defects trying to save a dollar.
Again a well maintained car, suv or small truck towing a few hundred pounds over the mfg tow rating for North America is not going to run over top a family in a minivan.

I worry more about the guy rushing to or from the river on the weekends through SoCal traffic at 80 mph towing a boat or toyhauler than i do some 150 horse power car in the slow lane minding thier owen buisness.

[Robin G]

To be legal and protect yourself in case you get in an accident by all means follow your owners manual, and hope that everyone else is following thiers.

Greg

Greg, Which one of your recommendations should we take as fact? The ones you've made on this page or the one you made back on page 7? This is a quote from you, back on page 7. Now you've changed you mind?


Hmmmmm, I think I will stay with my theory of, better safe than sorry!

[Greg N]

In your perfect world this might be the reality but not on the planet i live.

The speed limit in California for cars/trucks towing trailers and big rigs is 55 mph, i will leave it at that.

[Robin G]

Greg, I only wished my world was perfect but frankly that is not the issue at hand. I just asked you to clarify your own statements. Nothing more, which statement are people to take as fact?




So you don't think towing issues can occur at the low speed of 55 miles per hour? Really? Wow! The planet I live on, indeed issues can arise at slower speeds. Sorry, but now you have my attention and I will go toe to toe ( or should I say tow to tow) with you on this subject cause I believe as strongly in my theory as you in yours. Robin

[DayTripper]

<span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%">Ok, here is a bit of a monkey wrench for this whole discussion .....

</span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%">I am currently in Florida and due to the weather I am bored ..... so today I contacted the Florida Highway Patrol and also the Florida Department of Transportation and I asked them this one simple question "If my cars owners manual states that I can tow 1000 pounds and I am towing a 2000 pound trailer can I get stopped for being over weight or can I get any kind of ticket or fine?"</span>

<span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%">(DISCLAIMER : Your States Laws May Vary)</span>

<span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%">Both Florida entities stated to me that they could care less what a private vehicles mfg, has to say about towing capacities and that there are no laws in Florida pertaining to private vehicles towing more weight than the mfg. recommends.

Both have stated that as far as FL law enforcement would be concerned the owners manual and / or the manufacturers recommended towing capacities are considered a very loose guideline and are in no way legally binding nor accurate.</span>

<span style="font-family:Arial">The Lieutenant at the Dept. of Transportation went so far as to say that you can tow enough weight to burn up your engine and transmission for all they care, as long as you do not damage the road. </span>Both entities also stated that if the tow vehicle or the cargo being towed is commercial in nature (as opposed to private) then throw all of the above out the window.</span></span>

Now civil court may be a different matter entirely ..................... But as far as FL Law Enforcement is concerned if you can pull it and you have the required safety equipment such as lights and chains then the weight you are pulling does not matter to them and the weight your tow vehicles manufacturer recommends means absolutely nothing to them ..... </span>

[Heath G.]

Greg, fo some reason you are trying to pick a fight with me and I do not understand why you have chosen me and my profession to run down and say we run illegale and are a danger to the public. you want to get down to the nitty gritty then just stay off the interstate. It was set up for millitary and interstate comerce anyway. I am verry offended by your remarks and take them as a personal attack on me. I was trying to empart some good and safe advise to someone that is not sure about things. Like I said before, I have been driving for 14 years, company driver and as an owner operator that you claim has to run illegaly and unsafely just to make a buck. Truth is, I have loged over 1.5 million safe miles. that means I have managed to not run over any of those family members that you claim to worrie about so mutch. I have also done it with 1 log book and not so much as a parking or speeding or overweight ticket. zip zero nada moving or stationary violations. where do you get off makeing those type of accusations? enough is enough. you do what you wan't but please stop encuraging others to do something that is wrong and you know it. and most of all stop attacking me and the others out there that you do not know and quit frankly, don't want to know you. I ndon't know where you got your info but it is wrong. check with the NTSB and they will tell you that in all car vs. truck crashes, that the driver of the car is at fault 97.3 percent of the time. and yes that is a true and recorded FACT.

[Raya]

Heath,

Kudos to you for being a conscientious and safe truck driver

I can't imagine why someone would recommend to another person to tow a trailer that is over the weight limit set by the vehicle manufacturer. I can't imagine that person is going to be there to step up to the plate if something untoward happens.

In many instances I'm willing to let "newbies" make their own experimentations and/or mistakes, but in this case, when I might be sharing the road with them, I hate to see this sort of thing recommended.

And lest anyone get the wrong idea, I'm not one of these people who just marches lockstep because someone has told me to. But this is serious business, and I dearly hope not to be driving the same highways as a "rebel" who doesn't take towing specifications seriously.

Again, Heath, thank-you for doing your part for safety, and Roll on!

Raya

[Robin G]

John, The issue of legal or not is really not the cause in which I am fighting for! It's the safety factor!

I really don't see cops waiting for, private party overweight pullers to come down the road they are usually busy with drunk drivers, drug addicts, accidents etc. But did you happen to ask if a driver who caused an accident because of the topic here would have any repercussions for towing in such a manner? I don't know about the state of Florida, but I know here in Colorado there have been many cited for it. Sorry I don't know the technical ticket verbage but have seen accident reports in the news paper that state driver cited for improper load such and such. I have put a call into an insurance friend of mine to get a opinion from someone on that side of the issue.




But overall, it simply dumbfounds me that people will "promote" a dangerous situation to Justify their own scenario's. Overall, I hope that anyone who is new to towing, will take the time to educate them self's on the correct way to tow for your safety as well as the safety of your loved ones' and the people who are on the road with you. I don't give a hoot about your car and or what you doing to it. What I care about is you as a person being here to camp another day.

If you want to educate yourself on the art of towing, just google towing or towing over the tow vehicles towing capability or any version of that.

[Greg N]

Been associated with the nations largest LTL transportation company for over 18 years
Have worked with the Motor Carrie Division of the Highway patrol in Ca. for over 7 years
I have been task with enforcing company policiy along with any state, federal,local city or municipality regulations
I still have a lot to learn but have been called an expert in my field.
At one point im my life i have driven in 4 countries in lest than 1 year, driving from the right, left and back to the right side of the road, logging in many miles.

For those that are white knuckled scared your going to hurt your self or someone on the highway or you think the man is going to pull you over in cite you for being over gross then follow your owners manual.

For everyone else follow the rules of the road, obey the traffic laws and as long as you are not doing anything overtly stupid you will just fine (just like 89.9 percent of the motoring public)

If you are few hundred pounds over your GVW yes you will be fine and the boogey man wont visit you, but on the other hand if you are towing a 28 foot travel trailer loaded to the hilt with a Subaru Outback, you deseved to be flogged.

[John Mc]

With all due respect to my fellow fgrv'ers, this might not be the only place to get valid information on this topic (you know, the original one). To the OP, check out this discussion: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...=230297&page=2

Tdiclub.com is the largest US-centric resource for TDI information, updated with hundreds of posts daily. VWvortex.com is all that and too much more, with gadzillions of pertinent posts and stray topics, some of them instructive.

According to the link, current model Jetta TDIs are approved for towing up to 1500 pounds of trailer, with brakes. That seems about right to me. But the OP has an older TDI, probably a '99-'06 Mk IV chassis. That smaller car & engine might scale down to an even thousand pounds. Still, I can't help but think that's too conservative. My Forester, which tows a 2,000-lb Scamp legally and capably, weighs almost the same as a Golf TDI. It has 166 torques, trailing the TDI's 177 pounds-feet of urge by a significant margin, especially at altitude where the turbo increases the diesel's advantage. (Anyone who's towed with a diesel knows about that advantage, right?) Both cars are about the same width and wheelbase. Both have four wheel-disc brakes. I could go on and on, and sometimes I do...

On the face of it, I can't see why a Golf TDI should have only half the towing ability of a Forester. Not on technical grounds, anyhow. But the cars occupy different niches of the market. The Forester is a lifestyle vehicle, and SUV, while the Golf is an urban vehicle. VW has no marketing motive to claim a high towing capacity, but Subaru does.

[Robin G]

John, I have to disagree with you ( big surprise!) as many have said. Can it do it? And basically overall the answer is probably. BUT, the more important issue would be, is should it?




I have to say again, the manufacture recommends what they recommend because they have spent big buck's figuring out what works best for their product and yes it's probably a CYA thing. But would you assume they know their car's better than say us the everyday consumer? Wouldn't you also assume that they set guidelines to protect the consumer as well? If they thought it was safe to tow at another weight rating, they would be all over it! It's called money! In my opinion they would be spreading the word. Having the benefit of being in a higher tow rating would put the sales of their product in a different market (more buyers) They don't make or market their vehicle as a tow vehicle. They make a vehicle for a different type of consumer, do I think they could make a "tow" vehicle, sure they are a very wise company. But they found their niche and make a great car for that type of consumer. The + is the fact that their compact car is rated to tow a 1000 pounds, and I feel recommending any more than what they have set as a standard for their vehicle is not benefiting anyone. Again, can the car do more than the recommedation, sure under perfect conditions. But as I have said before there is not one thing about experiencing the great outdoors in a glass or any other travel trailer that is worth anyone getting hurt trying to get to the next camping spot. I know some of you guys think my opinion is coming from a womens point a veiw. But I grew up with a Dad who owned a heavy equipment business. And do have some knowledge/understanding of what it takes to tow safely. My opinion is safety first! Nothing else matters. If you want to tow something that requires more towing capacity than buy the appropriate tow vehicle. I get that all of you who have a different opinion are coming from the stand point that it "can" so you "can". But I have to ask, what is it you all think tow ratings are established for? Does everyone think the vehicle is gonna fall apart if the tow rating is exceeded? Hello, NO.................. But is it safe to exceed those ratings? That should be the question. I get that we as consumers push the recommedation of products daily. But when the safety of the person and those around them could be in harms way, is it wise to recommend doing so?

[Maddy]

I hope this doesn't post twice - computer just did something weird.

I have solved the problem of towing with my VW Golf. I've just made a deal on a vintage Eriba Puck, which is made to be pulled by a VW! So, no problems about the tow weight. It's small, light, and compact. Should work out great.

BTW, a regional VW office in Europe looked up my VW from its VIN # and gave me different (higher) tow weights. So I guess it is CYA in the U.S. Even the Hymer Distributor(Puck Mfr) thought the numbers I was working with were too low when we discussed towing with my VW Golf.

I appreciate all the feedback i received on this thread. I learned a lot and got some good advice.

Now my only hurdle is getting the trailer from CA to VA. I am contacting transporters (prices very high) and also contacting friends, acquaintances, and other forum contacts. If anyone knows of someone driving cross-country during the summer/early autumn, who can tow a small trailer, let me know. I would get it myself, but that would entail a 6,000 mile roundtrip and then I would have to turn around and do the move to AZ. Might have worked in my 20's, but too much for me now. My other option is to fly out to CA, and drive someone else's car (become a transporter) with my Puck in tow. Although, even doing 3,000 miles and then going to AZ after, makes me tired thinking about it. The whole idea of moving with a trailer was so I could make the move easier and less stressful. I'll figure it out. If I have to use a transporter, I'll do that.

This has been a long project (not over yet), but I'm getting near the end.

So, thanks to all,
Maddy