Considering the new RAV4 for my next TV

[Borden]

Originally Posted by AlanKilian

I looked at a lot of vehicles and even made a spreadsheet to help us choose our vehicle.
NerdAlert.

We live in Canada:

Outback here is showing 3000 lbs and the Forester is showing 2500 lbs at local dealer. They seem to be different depending on location?

Some cars and SUV's seem to have Up to ratings depending on make.

Do not know why Europe and US seem to be different.
Like options one of the workers were I was working prior to my retirement had a Corrolla with a V6 yet it seems that in the US that engine was never a real option.

[Borden]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

What’s the age and condition of the Highlander? I really don’t think you can do much better as a tow vehicle for a small molded trailer. A smaller vehicle will not get much better fuel mileage when towing, but it will sacrifice comfort, performance, and safety. I do agree with your assessment of the latest generation Highlander Hybrid- not only is it bigger, uglier, and more expensive, but the 2.5L 4 cylinder gas engine is a significant downgrade from the smooth V6 you have now.

If you have space in your driveway, how about keeping the Highlander for towing duty, and buy an economical smaller vehicle for everyday use?

Agree pay for gas or pay to play.

We have been towing for over 11 years with our car with no problems. We meet all legal towing requirements. The insurance company charges and extra $78 to cover trailer repairs in an accident the rest is under car insurance.
Had to get a frame hitch due to the unibody instead of regular hitch. Hitch and WD system cost $2600 at the time plus extra $2000 at dealer for the safety systems add for 7pin wiring and brake unit. Later we had Andy at CanAm-RV upgrade hitch, also had to upgraded the Toyota module in trunk to have dedicated power wire.
Needed the WD system and class II to meet boler recommended requirements in paper work. class III installed as they do not make a class II for our car.
The boler was just under 2000 lbs at scale and needed 8% to 9% tongue weight according to Toyota.
We do have the no longer offered full towing package so have looked at the Forester and Outback but the highlander sounds possible.
Tongue weight is under 200 lbs have checked it. Infarct take off the propane tanks and my wife has picked up the tongue and move the trailer in the past.
As we are getting older have added a wheel to the front jack now.

[Bruce9]

We have a 2016 Rav4 and just towed a trailer weighing about 1,100 lbs. with cargo I'd guess (haven't weighed it yet). Its TWR is 1750 lbs but its unbraked TWR is 1000 lbs., so if your trailer doesn't have brakes, it'd be wise to know the tow vehicles's unbraked TWR before you buy it. If you find out, please let me know. I found the unbraked TWR in the owner's manual under Trailer Towing in the index.

[AlanKilian]

Originally Posted by Borden

We live in Canada:

Outback here is showing 3000 lbs and the Forester is showing 2500 lbs at local dealer. They seem to be different depending on location?

Yeah, that's confusing and I've never understood it either.

The exact same vehicle might have a 2500 pound rating in the USA and a 5000# rating in England.

I always have attributed it to the constant of inertia being different in Europe. :-)

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Borden

...
Do not know why Europe and US seem to be different.
Like options one of the workers were I was working prior to my retirement had a Corrolla with a V6 yet it seems that in the US that engine was never a real option.

as far as towing goes. European caravans tend to have a longer tongue with the CoG and axles farther back, also a lower CoG, all this leads to less tongue weight for a given trailer size. Europeans drive slower when towing, its expected of them, so while we might be driving 100km/h, they would only be going 50 km/h. Also they tend to drive significantly shorter distances.

huh, i just checked international specifications for every Corolla version from 1991 to 2018, and didn't see any 6 cyl engines. lotsa small diesels in the world market.

[MelH]

In touring Alaska, Canada, New Mexico, West Texas and Nevada I've discovered the following important TowV characteristics even for my 2500# Aliner folding camper.
1. Spare full-size tire. Cannot tow using run-flat or 'doughnut' tires.
2. AWD. Front wheel only TowV cannot tow uphill on non-paved roads
3. Avoid anything that isn't very well tow proven and supportable in remote communities -- Turbo chargers, CVT transmissions are risky

I too wanted a smaller TowV but, after getting stuck, replaced my 2012 FWD Highlander with a 2018 AWD Highlander because it met the above criteria and would hold a full-size spare (not OEM).

Buy once, cry once.

[Ric G]

Originally Posted by MelH

In touring Alaska, Canada, New Mexico, West Texas and Nevada I've discovered the following important TowV characteristics even for my 2500# Aliner folding camper.
1. Spare full-size tire. Cannot tow using run-flat or 'doughnut' tires.
2. AWD. Front wheel only TowV cannot tow uphill on non-paved roads
3. Avoid anything that isn't very well tow proven and supportable in remote communities -- Turbo chargers, CVT transmissions are risky

I too wanted a smaller TowV but, after getting stuck, replaced my 2012 FWD Highlander with a 2018 AWD Highlander because it met the above criteria and would hold a full-size spare (not OEM).

Buy once, cry once.

I'm also looking at the Highlander (Hybrid). Is yours hybrid or "regular".

[MelH]

My XLE Highlander (bought with 6k miles) is the normal V6 with 5k# tow capacity.
I wanted the flexibility to tow a heaver camper as I age.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Ric G

I'm also looking at the Highlander (Hybrid). Is yours hybrid or "regular".

I too have a gas Highlander. One of my favourite spots has no services. I could stop at the nearest town to recharge before proceeding off the highway, but that wouldn't make me or anybody else happy.
I'd spend all my time coping with range anxiety.

[Ric G]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I too have a gas Highlander. One of my favourite spots has no services. I could stop at the nearest town to recharge before proceeding off the highway, but that wouldn't make me or anybody else happy.
I'd spend all my time coping with range anxiety.

You don't have to recharge the hybrid. As long as you have gas in your tank it charges the lithium battery when the vehicle is in the on mode, either driving or stationary. That's the beauty of a hybrid system over a true electric vehicle.

[MelH]

Hot climates and fast charges (from fast-charging stations) decrease Lithium Battery life. Living and often camping in Texas, NM, AZ are concerning.

Also, always ask what they cost and how long the batteries are warranted for before purchase.

[Ric G]

Originally Posted by MelH

Hot climates and fast charges (from fast-charging stations) decrease Lithium Battery life. Living and often camping in Texas, NM, AZ are concerning.

Also, always ask what they cost and how long the batteries are warranted for before purchase.

Toyota's lithium battery warranty is 10 years - 150,000 miles.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by MelH

2. AWD. Front wheel only TowV cannot tow uphill on non-paved roads

a lot of AWD crossovers that are built on FWD platforms, the rear wheels have a very weak clutch in the rear differential that only engages when the front wheels spin, and it doesn't take too much use of this before it fails, neccessitating a new rear differential. My son ran into this with a ex-GF's Honda CRV, and they weren't even towing, just driving on steep dirt roads in national forests.

this is quite a different setup then the sort of AWD that vehicles like Audi Quattro and Mercedes 4Matic have, where there's a center differential, and the rear wheels are the MAIN drive, the front wheels are assisting but always engaged, sometimes with a proportioning clutch ("Torsen") or in the case of the newest generation of Mercedes 4Matic, all 4 wheels are always engaged, and all three differentials are 'open' but they use the wheel brakes individually to control wheel spin, so even if 3 wheels are spinning, the 4th wheel can pull/push the car.

and its a totally different setup than the traditional 4x4, where instead of a center differential, you have a transfer case which must be manually engaged to power the front wheels, and can only be used in 4x4 mode on slippery surfaces as that transfer case has no center differential, its 1:1 to both front and rear differentials (and the rear diff on these cars often has a locker to prevent wheel spin in snow, mud).

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Ric G

You don't have to recharge the hybrid. As long as you have gas in your tank it charges the lithium battery when the vehicle is in the on mode, either driving or stationary. That's the beauty of a hybrid system over a true electric vehicle.

I thought the point of an EV was to not use petroleum.

[Ric G]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I thought the point of an EV was to not use petroleum.

A hybrid is not a true EV. A hybrid uses both gasoline and electric to move the vehicle. A hybrid gets significantly better gas mileage than a gas only car.



And should you run out of gas, you can drive a short distance on electric only to get to a gas station. In the case of the Highlander, it's about 40 miles if memory serves me correctly.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Ric G

And should you run out of gas, you can drive a short distance on electric only to get to a gas station. In the case of the Highlander, it's about 40 miles if memory serves me correctly.

That's about half way back to a gas station.
I bought this 2020 Highlander last August and I'm closing in on 3,500 kilometres ( 2,200 miles ) so I'm saving a lot of gas.

[Ric G]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

That's about half way back to a gas station.

It depends entirely on where the gas station is located. If you're paying attention and plan ahead you'll never have to use the electric only function.

I've always driven a gas only vehicle and have never run out of gas. But it would be nice to have an extra 40 or so miles just in case.

[Romerohiker]

My 2019 RAV4 Adventure (rated at 3500# TC) easily tows my 2015 Scamp 13. I looked at the 2019 RAV4 Hybrids; but, the 1750# towing capacity was a deal breaker. A quick Google search confirms that the 2021 RAV4 Hybrid still has a 1750# TC.

[Jon in AZ]

Regarding CVTs, Toyota’s “hybrid synergy drive” uses the electric motors to change final driveshaft ratios, and it is quite robust. That’s what you have in your Highlander Hybrid.

Other than the lack of fixed gear ratios, it has nothing in common with the steel belt-and-pulley set-up in most other CVT transmissions, including those used by Nissan, Subaru, Honda, and others, including some of Toyota’s small non-hybrid sedans. While those have clearly improved over time, I’m still not convinced they’re the best choice for heavy towing duty (frequent towing near the maximum weight rating).

Toyota uses a conventional (torque converter) automatic in their non-hybrid RAV4s. I would want the Adventure model with upgraded cooling (to better protect the transmission), a bigger alternator (for better battery charging), and a 3500# tow rating. Unfortunately it carries a hefty price premium that puts it on par with larger V6 SUVs, which typically provide more payload (important when traveling for long periods and needing to carry more stuff).

[John in Santa Cruz]

my brothjer bought a 2020 Rav4 Adventure and *loves* it, but its the first vehicle he's ever owned that wasn't at least 20 years old, hah hah. AND it didn't come with a hitch, and I don't think Toyota will provide 7-blade wiring, which is a must for most any FG trailer over 1000 lbs (thats all of them)