Couple total new RV within 20 minutes of buying it...

[Kai in Seattle]

Let me see if I understand this...the solution to sway is to slow down--a lot. Right? Stop if possible?

I mean, other than allowing it to run its quick and natural course!


YouTube: Scientifically proven, you need to slow down! (NOT a link)
Caravan Tips - Why do caravans sway and how do you stop it?

AustralianCaravanRV

You don't even have to stop.

BEST
Kai

[Casita Greg]

Let's not forget to factor in that many people out there buy a small economy rig and try to tow trailers with vehicles that are not up to the task for what they're asking them to do.

"Gee, I own a Yugo with no real frame, a cardboard body, and an over-sized lawnmower engine, and I want to know if I can tow a 35' Airstream through the Rockies? What do you guys think?"

If you're going to tow a trailer, get a tow rig that has enough size and power to do it right, and quit jeopardizing yourselves and everyone else out there on the roads around you. Personally, I have absolutely no sympathy or tolerance for such stupid actions...

And, FWIW, this crash happened about 5 miles from my home.

[Roger H]

Originally Posted by Kai in Seattle

Let me see if I understand this...the solution to sway is to slow down--a lot. Right? Stop if possible?

I mean, other than allowing it to run its quick and natural course!


YouTube: Scientifically proven, you need to slow down! (NOT a link)
Caravan Tips - Why do caravans sway and how do you stop it?

AustralianCaravanRV

You don't even have to stop.

BEST
Kai

The moral to this is that sway can be caused by many factors; worn or broken equipment; inadequate tire pressures both in the trailer and tow vehicle; inappropriate loading that unloads tongue weight; or suspension issues on the tow vehicle (which I had towing my 34' tri-axle with the Excursion that actually allowed the tri-axle to initiate sway). These are all factors that folks who tow have to learn about and learn to control, and correct if necessary. Many folks who tow have neither the inclination nor the technical skill to understand exactly what happens with sway, and unfortunately for some, their first sway episode is also their last with that particular setup, so they never get the chance to figure out and correct whatever problem they have.

I have towed trailers over a hundred thousand miles in my lifetime and never experienced a sway event until the one I described. I did my best to slow down... without trailer brakes because the pigtail had come un-attached when the trailer came off the ball. There is no guarantee that the trailer won't hit the point on the sine wave where it has enough momentum to break the traction of your rear axle before you can slow it down enough to control it. The 2500 lb Trillium was jerking the rear axle of my 7500 lb Ford Excursion around pretty hard. Had it been my 7000 lb Airstream tri-axle instead of the Trillium, it'd have rolled me. If I'd had a pickup with a 70% front axle to 30% rear axle loading it'd likely have broken the traction on the rear axle. Fortunately the Excursion is about 55% front, 45% rear so there was more traction over the rear axle for the trailer to have to overcome.

As I said above, there are MANY causes of sway, and ALL trailers will exhibit sway at some speed. The trick is to ensure that your equipment is up to snuff, the hitch is done correctly, you have adequate tongue weight, the weight is distributed properly in the trailer, that the suspension on the tow vehicle is up to the task, and that all of your tires (on BOTH the tow AND the trailer) are aired up properly to limit sidewall flex and tread squirm. And THEN never exceed 65 mph as that's what ST (Special Trailer) tires are maximum speed rated at.

Wheelbase is only important in that it takes longer for a trailer to cause a long-wheelbase vehicle to lose control than a short-wheelbase, giving you additional time to try to control it. Vehicle weight isn't as important in towing as that there's adequate tongue weight and the hitch is properly set up and operating as designed.

If you do ALL of that, and you don't experience an equipment failure (as I did,) you should have the speed of onset of sway raised well above 65mph and it should never rear its ugly head.

[Fallon]

Originally Posted by Kai in Seattle

Let me see if I understand this...the solution to sway is to slow down--a lot. Right? Stop if possible?

I mean, other than allowing it to run its quick and natural course!


YouTube: Scientifically proven, you need to slow down! (NOT a link)
Caravan Tips - Why do caravans sway and how do you stop it?

AustralianCaravanRV

You don't even have to stop.

BEST
Kai

Actually no. Slowing down by applying vehicle brakes will make sway a lot worse. Applying trailer brakes only will stop the sway. Technically speeding up can do the same thing as trailer brakes from a physics perspective & can stop sway. But unless the root cause is addressed it's much more likely to make things a lot worse.

The best course of action is to apply trailer brakes, or gently slow down the tow vehicle as gradually as possible if trailer brakes aren't abalible.

Amusingly 2 wheel luggage has the exact same physics. If it ever starts swerving or bouncing from side to side, speeding up will stop the oscillations. Slowing down will make things worse.

[Trill136]

I have only experienced one "near death" sway experience.
With a utility trailer, no trailer brakes.

I had it loaded with sufficient, if not a bit more than needed, tongue weight.

It is a fairly short trailer, with the axle positioned exactly in the middle.

When the sway started, it was on a steep downhill grade at about 90 or 100 kph.

I tried slowing down, but, vehicle brakes only make the sway worse.

Fortunately I was towing with a 1/2 pickup, in decent shape, with good tires.

Even at that, scared the sh*t out of me!!!!

I could feel the momentum of the swing pulling on the end of the truck.
I could watch the bloody thing weaving around.

I was fortunate that there was no other traffic and I was able to use as much road space as I needed to get back under control.
I was sweating as if I was being bb'd on a spit. My heart rate was definitely a bit elevated and I was a bit shakey.

The only advice I can offer is: "Do not try this"

[Glenn Baglo]

Towing my tent trailer with my Subaru Loyale GL wagon I got a little carried away on a gravel road. I was into the corner when I hit washboard. Looking out my driver window, I saw my tent trailer trying to overtake me. I hit the gas hard and even though the Subaru was gutless, the front-wheel-drive managed to pull the vehicle ahead of the trailer coming out of the corner.

I slowed down.

[Thinh]

..Years before I towed my 1300 Trillium with my little Toyota Matrix wagon.. That was a hot, dry, clear day with no wind at all...In the front of Trillium floor, there was a heavy cooler, full of beers, ice cubes and not..tied down. So on occasion of the curve of highway, I sensed it seems I.....steered.. a speed boat on the water. Pull over, check it, turns out the whole cooler slided to the right, flipped, opened and all beers rolling freely on Trillium floor. Lesson learned: Tied down everything and be careful with...LIQUID LOAD. Share..

[MyronL]

That Nomad should have remained homeless.

[CarefreeLad]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Allow me to boor you all with my continuing mantra about trailer brakes.

Always, always, always have working trailer brakes and know how to use them. Always.

This is even more important with a high center of gravity and short wheelbase vehicle like a Grand Cherokee.

Trailer sway is immediately stopped by applying the trailer brakes independently, or at least more aggressively than the TV brakes. This story is a perfect example. Fortunately, they did not injure anyone.

Not only can you control sway, but you can stop much more safely in various conditions, with trailer brakes.

OK, I'm getting back down off my soap box.

Hey Raspy,


Any links to the proper usage of trailer brakes?


I'm asking because of your comment about "applying the trailer brakes independently". My trailer brakes do not have an independent operation as far as I know - they get applied when I use my truck brakes. I do have the electric brake "kill switch" which locks the brakes should the trailer come off the truck, but that's it for "independent" and I'd have to get out of the truck to pull that manually...hehe.


Thanks in advance


Take care


-Bryan

[Fallon]

Originally Posted by CarefreeLad

Hey Raspy,


Any links to the proper usage of trailer brakes?


I'm asking because of your comment about "applying the trailer brakes independently". My trailer brakes do not have an independent operation as far as I know - they get applied when I use my truck brakes. I do have the electric brake "kill switch" which locks the brakes should the trailer come off the truck, but that's it for "independent" and I'd have to get out of the truck to pull that manually...hehe.


Thanks in advance


Take care


-Bryan

You are asking for proper operation of your brake controller, but not mentioning what that brake controller is. There are multiple styles. Generally with electronic brakes & electronic brake controller there is a lever or button on the side or bottom of the controller. That lever manually engages the trailer brakes separate from the vehicle brakes.

[CarefreeLad]

Originally Posted by Fallon

You are asking for proper operation of your brake controller, but not mentioning what that brake controller is. There are multiple styles. Generally with electronic brakes & electronic brake controller there is a lever or button on the side or bottom of the controller. That lever manually engages the trailer brakes separate from the vehicle brakes.

Thanks Fallon!


No idea what is on my 1975 Carefree trailer as there are no useful specs I've been able to find - and who knows what may have changed in 44 years. All I know is that my truck never feels like it is being pushed by the trailer even when braking hard - so I ASSUME the truck is engaging the trailer brakes. As I already mentioned, there is the kill switch on the tongue - it is attached to the truck so if the trailer hops off the ball the wire is pulled tight and the plunger pulled out of the kill switch and the brakes will lock. My 2005 Nissan Frontier Nismo edition has a tow package and comes with a 7-pin connector (which I've been told means the truck can control the trailer brakes).



I asked such a generic question because Raspy stated we should all know about the proper use of such brakes - so I asked for links as he seems to know his stuff - simple as that.


Gotta start the education somewhere right!


Cheers

[Fallon]

Originally Posted by CarefreeLad

Thanks Fallon!


No idea what is on my 1975 Carefree trailer as there are no useful specs I've been able to find - and who knows what may have changed in 44 years. All I know is that my truck never feels like it is being pushed by the trailer even when braking hard - so I ASSUME the truck is engaging the trailer brakes. As I already mentioned, there is the kill switch on the tongue - it is attached to the truck so if the trailer hops off the ball the wire is pulled tight and the plunger pulled out of the kill switch and the brakes will lock. My 2005 Nissan Frontier Nismo edition has a tow package and comes with a 7-pin connector (which I've been told means the truck can control the trailer brakes).



I asked such a generic question because Raspy stated we should all know about the proper use of such brakes - so I asked for links as he seems to know his stuff - simple as that.


Gotta start the education somewhere right!


Cheers

Just because you have a 7 pin connector doesn't mean you have a brake controller. Actually unless you have a 3/4, 1 ton or bigger truck it's very unlikely you have any brake controller at all as OEM equipment. Even a lot of trucks with a tow package don't come with brake controllers. My Tacoma, like many vehicles with a decent tow rating came with a 7 pin connector. It also came with a pigtail under the dash to splice a brake controller into & plug in so that the brake pins on the plug actually do something.

I'm 99% sure you don't have operational braking on that trailer. If you haven't messed with it or tested it in a long time, that break away braking system isn't likely to do anything either.

Please to a fair bit of research on brake controllers & trailer brakes. Just assuming things is likely to get you & innocent bystanders in lots of trouble.

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by CarefreeLad

Thanks Fallon!
No idea what is on my 1975 Carefree trailer as there are no useful specs I've been able to find - and who knows what may have changed in 44 years. All I know is that my truck never feels like it is being pushed by the trailer even when braking hard - so I ASSUME the truck is engaging the trailer brakes. As I already mentioned, there is the kill switch on the tongue - it is attached to the truck so if the trailer hops off the ball the wire is pulled tight and the plunger pulled out of the kill switch and the brakes will lock. My 2005 Nissan Frontier Nismo edition has a tow package and comes with a 7-pin connector (which I've been told means the truck can control the trailer brakes).
Gotta start the education somewhere right! Cheers

+10 on Fallons question, what is the name/make of the brake controller in the truck? The 7 pin and kill (break away) switch has no bearing on the manual use of applying the trailer brakes. Might help to do a Goggle search for some info & videos of how they work .

[CarefreeLad]

Originally Posted by Fallon

Just because you have a 7 pin connector doesn't mean you have a brake controller. Actually unless you have a 3/4, 1 ton or bigger truck it's very unlikely you have any brake controller at all as OEM equipment. Even a lot of trucks with a tow package don't come with brake controllers. My Tacoma, like many vehicles with a decent tow rating came with a 7 pin connector. It also came with a pigtail under the dash to splice a brake controller into & plug in so that the brake pins on the plug actually do something.

I'm 99% sure you don't have operational braking on that trailer. If you haven't messed with it or tested it in a long time, that break away braking system isn't likely to do anything either.

Please to a fair bit of research on brake controllers & trailer brakes. Just assuming things is likely to get you & innocent bystanders in lots of trouble.

Thanks Fallon...and please tone down "assuming things" - I am trying to educate myself through all this. Do you really think I would ask if I didn't care?


I thought I had one thing and it appears I have another - so much for the guy I bought it off! I've only driven it twice and once was home after buying it. The 2nd was the experience I was referring to where I swore I felt braking occurring.



If you have any SUGGESTIONS on where to do said research - I'm all ears. Any advice on HOW TO determine what I have? how to test the brakes? links?


Thanks

[CarefreeLad]

Originally Posted by Borrego Dave

+10 on Fallons question, what is the name/make of the brake controller in the truck? The 7 pin and kill (break away) switch has no bearing on the manual use of applying the trailer brakes. Might help to do a Goggle search for some info & videos of how they work .

I didn't see Fallon post a question - what was it? He posted some statements...no question mark in sight

[Jon in AZ]

Bryan, I tried googling "how electric trailer brakes work" and got a few hits. Nothing that seemed complete, authoritative, and written for a beginner. This was the best I came up with. You can overlook where they push their own products. It explains the two types of trailer brakes- surge brakes and electric brakes- and the two types of electric brake controllers- time-delay and inertial (or proportional). For a molded fiberglass trailer you're looking at electric brakes with a proportional controller.
https://www.curtmfg.com/trailer-brakes-controllers

It has other towing articles that might be worth a look as well as you seek to learn.

Here's another:
https://www.etrailer.com/faq-brakecontroller.aspx

Another approach is to find someone near you who is experienced with towed RVs and has time to show you as well as explain how things work. Retirees can be a great resource.

As to whether your vehicle already has a built-in trailer brake controller, I agree it's unlikely, but a dealer can answer definitively. If it does, there will be some controls on the dashboard and operating instructions in your owner's manual. My Pilot came with 7-pin wiring and a connector piece that wires to an aftermarket brake controller and plugs into a port under the dash. That arrangement is pretty common in mid-sized, tow-rated trucks and SUV's.

Best wishes!

[Glenn Baglo]

Go to etrailer.com

They have hundreds of videos on equipment and towing.
Prodigy is very popular brake controller.

[CarefreeLad]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Bryan, I tried googling "how electric trailer brakes work" and got a few hits. Nothing that seemed complete, authoritative, and written for a beginner. This was the best I came up with. You can overlook where they push their own products. They talk about both time-based and inertia-based controllers. Know that inertia-based (also called proportional) controllers are pretty much universal now.
https://www.curtmfg.com/trailer-brakes-controllers

It has other towing articles that might be worth a look as well as you seek to learn.

Here's another:
https://www.etrailer.com/faq-brakecontroller.aspx

Another approach is to find someone near you who is experienced with towed RVs and has time to show you as well as explain how things work. Retirees can be a great resource.

As to whether your vehicle already has a built-in trailer brake controller, I agree it's unlikely, but a dealer can answer definitively. If it does, there will be some controls on the dashboard and operating instructions in your owner's manual. My Pilot came with 7-pin wiring and a connector piece that wires to an aftermarket brake controller and plugs into a port under the dash. That arrangement is pretty common in mid-sized, tow-rated trucks and SUV's.

Best wishes!

Thanks Jon - appreciate it!


I'll check out the links and had already been thinking about reaching out to some local talent - have a buddy who is a mechanical engineer . There's nothing quite like having someone come have a look and talking it through!


Take care


-Bryan

[CarefreeLad]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Go to etrailer.com

They have hundreds of videos on equipment and towing.
Prodigy is very popular brake controller.

Thanks Glen!!

[thrifty bill]

My F150 came with a seven pin connector and had the optional towing package too. Yet it did not come with a brake controller. Ford makes a controller that fits nicely in the dash and the truck was even pre-wired for the controller. But it didn’t come with it. Installed it later.

I’d stop at the dealer next time you are in the area. Based on your description I am doubtful you have one but the dealer will know.