Couple total new RV within 20 minutes of buying it...

[John in Santa Cruz]

Do you have a trailer brake controller in the cab of you too vehicle? This is a box a bit bigger than a pack of playing cards, with a few dials or buttons or knobs, and probably a spring loaded slide switch. It should be mounted so the driver can readily reach it. If you do have one, that spring g loaded slider I s the manual trailer brake override.... If you don't have one, your brakes probably aren't connected.

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by CarefreeLad

I didn't see Fallon post a question - what was it? He posted some statements...no question mark in sight

He was asking, as I was also, if you knew for sure if there was indeed a brake controller in the cab. I suggested to you to use Google as Jon did also, to see some visual examples of what to look for. The subject of a factory tow package comes up fairly often .

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by CarefreeLad

...I'll check out the links and had already been thinking about reaching out to some local talent - have a buddy who is a mechanical engineer . There's nothing quite like having someone come have a look and talking it through!

To start at the beginning, an electric trailer brake system has five basic components.

Trailer side:
(1) Electric brakes mounted on the axle of the trailer. They need to be cleaned and adjusted periodically (something you might want to do with a new-to-you used trailer).
(2) Wiring to a 7-pin round connector on the tongue (usually installed in conjunction with the brakes).
(3) Breakaway switch connected to the trailer's brake wiring and the trailer battery or a designated battery just for the breakaway system. A cable attaches to the tow vehicle to detect an uncoupling event.

Tow vehicle side:
(4) Wiring from the dashboard to a 7-pin round connector on the back of the vehicle (part of factory "tow package" or aftermarket- varies by manufacturer and model).
(5) Brake controller, either factory integrated behind the dash (with controls on the dash) or aftermarket (small box mounted under the dash as John describes). Factory integrated brake controllers are typically only offered on full-sized vans and pickup trucks and some larger SUV's.

The important fact is that the presence of 7-pin wiring on the tow vehicle does not mean there is a brake controller. Even on vehicles that offer a factory brake controller, it is often a separate check box on the option list from the trailer wiring harness.

So why is a brake controller needed? Your vehicle's brakes are hydraulic, controlled with the pedal. Push gently, slow a little; push hard, slow a lot. The problem is the electric brakes on the trailer do not know how hard you're pushing on the pedal. If they were to come on full blast every time you touched the brake pedal, it would make for an extremely jerky, tire screeching, rubber burning stop. A brake controller modulates the voltage flowing through the brake wiring, allowing the trailer brakes to come on more gradually.

The best are inertial (or more commonly, proportional) controllers, which sense the rate of deceleration of the tow vehicle and supply a proportional voltage to the trailer brakes. The proportion can be adjusted on the brake controller for more or less trailer braking. Too much or too little makes for jerky, unnatural slowing; just right and the whole rig will slow and stop together smoothly.

There is one more reason for a brake controller, which applies particularly to the situation in this thread: sway. In a serious sway event, the most effective means of controlling the sway is to apply the trailer brakes without the vehicle brakes. All modern brake controllers have a means to do that. I believe Raspy's point is that it is good to know how that switch works and practice the movements often enough that they become a reflex response in an actual emergency.

[CarefreeLad]

Originally Posted by Borrego Dave

He was asking, as I was also, if you knew for sure if there was indeed a brake controller in the cab. I suggested to you to use Google as Jon did also, to see some visual examples of what to look for. The subject of a factory tow package comes up fairly often .

Thanks Dave! I went back and read both of Fallon's post and neither asks me a single question - lots of statements - no questions.

All good - others have replied and I'm educating myself now. This looks like a cake walk to install should I need to and serving the brakes is pretty simple. If they are past servicing - then it's replacement time - again...pretty easy.

The rest of the trailer has been reasonably well cared for - especially for a 43 year old So I suspect the brakes are serviceable and not in need of replacement.

Cheers

[CarefreeLad]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

Do you have a trailer brake controller in the cab of you too vehicle? This is a box a bit bigger than a pack of playing cards, with a few dials or buttons or knobs, and probably a spring loaded slide switch. It should be mounted so the driver can readily reach it. If you do have one, that spring g loaded slider I s the manual trailer brake override.... If you don't have one, your brakes probably aren't connected.

Thanks John!


There is no noticeable controller box. I reached under the steering column side of the dash and think I felt the harness to connect to (I assume that;s the pigtail everyone has been mentioning). I just didn't take a peak to confirm.


For me the oddity here is that I could not feel the trailer altering the braking much - as in NOT pushing the truck or requiring hard braking. I HAVE had that with a lighter dual PWC trailer (albeit with a different truck). So that's why it feels as though the brakes on the trailer ARE engaging - not getting pushed. Hey....maybe it's just that my Nissan has 4 wheel disc brakes and my Dakota had rear drums.


I love a mystery...challenge accepted!


Cheers

[CarefreeLad]

Thanks Jon - awesome summary. I'd gleened most of what you summarized from the links you provided yesterday, but you filled in a few gaps.


All makes sense and I think your last bit is critical - practice emergency usage of the controller so you can save yourself or someone else one day.


That was actually the thing I wondered about - how fast can ya hit that button when the chips are down...while still hanging on to the steering wheel and paying attention!


Of course I have to remember the day I was hauling 3 tonnes of wet drywall while talking to the truck mechanic on one of those old Motorola brick cell phones when the rear drivers tire blew on the highway and ripped the feeder hose off the gas tank - somehow managed to one arm it to the side of the highway while continuing the call.


Thanks again - if I come up with questions I'll start a thread in a more appropriate spot


Cheers

[almira]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Allow me to boor you all with my continuing mantra about trailer brakes.

Always, always, always have working trailer brakes and know how to use them. Always.

This is even more important with a high center of gravity and short wheelbase vehicle like a Grand Cherokee.

Trailer sway is immediately stopped by applying the trailer brakes independently, or at least more aggressively than the TV brakes. This story is a perfect example. Fortunately, they did not injure anyone.

Not only can you control sway, but you can stop much more safely in various conditions, with trailer brakes.

OK, I'm getting back down off my soap box.

I appreciate the info, I'm new to travel trailer driving and appreciate your advice. Brakes are on my to do list. thanks.

[Doug Arthurs]

My 2014 Silverado came with a tow package. I thought the controller would be there as well but it turns out they just put a pigtail in the center console and the consumer had to supply there own controller. I don't really understand why a truck with a tow package wouldn't come with the controller but I guess the auto makers are just saving some money.

[Jon in AZ]

Doug, do you know for sure an integrated controller wasn't a separate, stand-alone option? I'll bet it is now, if it wasn't in 2014.

In any case, I think we'll be seeing more integrated trailer brake controllers. The increasing complexity of vehicle electronics is making it harder to mate with aftermarket products.

There was a recent thread about one vehicle- 2018 Subaru Outback- that apparently cannot be wired to a conventional aftermarket controller. They are recommending a trailer-mounted inertial controller- no wiring in the vehicle- with a remote control to activate the trailer brakes independently. Imagine having to hunt for a remote in the middle of a sway event!

Integrated controllers can do things aftermarket units cannot. It is possible to program an integrated controller to recognize and respond to trailer sway without driver action. Who knows... perhaps one day software will also electronically govern your top speed to 55 mph when towing...

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Doug, do you know for sure an integrated controller wasn't a separate, stand-alone option? I'll bet it is now, if it wasn't in 2014.

In any case, I think we'll be seeing more integrated trailer brake controllers. The increasing complexity of vehicle electronics is making it harder to mate with aftermarket products.

There was a recent thread about one vehicle- 2018 Subaru Outback- that apparently cannot be wired to a conventional aftermarket controller. They are recommending a trailer-mounted inertial controller- no wiring in the vehicle- with a remote control to activate the trailer brakes independently. Imagine having to hunt for a remote in the middle of a sway event!

It is possible to program an integrated controller to recognize and respond to trailer sway without driver action. Who knows... perhaps one day software will also electronically govern your top speed to 55 mph when towing.. [emoji6]

My 2014 Ram has an integrated brake controller . It was an add on option
Cost was $235 . Adding an aftermarket brake controller is not the same thing
The factory IBC is tied in with the vehicle’s ABS and stability control , the aftermarket controller is not
When I bought my truck , the receiver hitch , brake controller , and 3.92 rear end were all add on individual options
Since the “ Tow Package “ seems to vary from model to model and manufacturer to manufacturer , one cannot assume what’s in the tow package

[Casita Greg]

My wife's 2016 Chevy Silverado came with the fully integrated controller as a part of the "tow package."

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by CarefreeLad

Hey Raspy,


Any links to the proper usage of trailer brakes?


I'm asking because of your comment about "applying the trailer brakes independently". My trailer brakes do not have an independent operation as far as I know - they get applied when I use my truck brakes. I do have the electric brake "kill switch" which locks the brakes should the trailer come off the truck, but that's it for "independent" and I'd have to get out of the truck to pull that manually...hehe.


Thanks in advance


Take care


-Bryan

Bryan,

I don't have any links to share about brake operation.

First thing to do is see if you have a brake controller in your tow vehicle. It will be an obvious box mounted within reach of the driver and typically under the dash, or a factory built in system with obvious knobs to operate it near the heater controls.

If you have it, you'll notice that it has a way to adjust the "gain" and a way to override it and apply the brakes independently of the TV brakes.

If you have it, hook up to your trailer and, while moving, apply the brakes manually at the brake controller. You should immediately feel the trailer brakes apply and hold back against the TV. The wheels might even skid. This answers the questions about whether you have a working brake system or not. If not, you'll have to start troubleshooting, or install brakes.

Once you've gotten that far, you can begin to adjust the setting on the controller to work with your TV brakes. Aftermarket controllers typically sense the rate of decelleration and apply the brakes accordingly. Factory systems sense the brake fluid pressure and apply the brakes accordingly.

Most people like to adjust their setting to where the trailer neither pushes or pulls back on the TV during braking. In this case the braking load is shared equally. I set mine up to be more aggressive so I can always feel the trailer holding back a bit while stopping, but I don't want the trailer to skid.

Every trailer has different braking characteristics. And diffferent weather conditions change the amount of traction. Brakes work better after they are "broken in" or after a few miles if they haven't been used in awhile. So, you may find yourself adjusting the "gain", or how aggressive they are, often. I set them differently for every trailer I have, for differing loads on those trailers and for how they feel as I drive. They are set lighter on dirt than pavement and lighter during rain than dry.

If the trailer begins to sway while towing along on in a straight line, you can fix it by applying the trailer brakes independently of the TV brakes. This is done with the lever on the controller that you apply by hand. This is your most affective way to fix uncontrolled sway or whipping back and forth of the trailer right before a crash. Applying the TV brakes, and no trailer brakes makes the situation worse. Applying the TV brakes with trailer brakes set up to be somewhat aggresssive, as I've described, should also fix the sway problem, but applying the trailer brakes independently is the best. Become familiar with how to do this without even looking at the controller.

Having trailer brakes to assist you on long downgrades can not only save wear on the TV, but make the difference between stopping or not stopping. Further, higher speeds and especially downgrades are more likely to induce sway. Always have your brakes working, adjusted correctly and know how to use them independent of the TV brakes.

[CarefreeLad]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Bryan,

I don't have any links to share about brake operation.

First thing to do is see if you have a brake controller in your tow vehicle. It will be an obvious box mounted within reach of the driver and typically under the dash, or a factory built in system with obvious knobs to operate it near the heater controls.

If you have it, you'll notice that it has a way to adjust the "gain" and a way to override it and apply the brakes independently of the TV brakes.

If you have it, hook up to your trailer and, while moving, apply the brakes manually at the brake controller. You should immediately feel the trailer brakes apply and hold back against the TV. The wheels might even skid. This answers the questions about whether you have a working brake system or not. If not, you'll have to start troubleshooting, or install brakes.

Once you've gotten that far, you can begin to adjust the setting on the controller to work with your TV brakes. Aftermarket controllers typically sense the rate of decelleration and apply the brakes accordingly. Factory systems sense the brake fluid pressure and apply the brakes accordingly.

Most people like to adjust their setting to where the trailer neither pushes or pulls back on the TV during braking. In this case the braking load is shared equally. I set mine up to be more aggressive so I can always feel the trailer holding back a bit while stopping, but I don't want the trailer to skid.

Every trailer has different braking characteristics. And diffferent weather conditions change the amount of traction. Brakes work better after they are "broken in" or after a few miles if they haven't been used in awhile. So, you may find yourself adjusting the "gain", or how aggressive they are, often. I set them differently for every trailer I have, for differing loads on those trailers and for how they feel as I drive. They are set lighter on dirt than pavement and lighter during rain than dry.

If the trailer begins to sway while towing along on in a straight line, you can fix it by applying the trailer brakes independently of the TV brakes. This is done with the lever on the controller that you apply by hand. This is your most affective way to fix uncontrolled sway or whipping back and forth of the trailer right before a crash. Applying the TV brakes, and no trailer brakes makes the situation worse. Applying the TV brakes with trailer brakes set up to be somewhat aggresssive, as I've described, should also fix the sway problem, but applying the trailer brakes independently is the best. Become familiar with how to do this without even looking at the controller.

Having trailer brakes to assist you on long downgrades can not only save wear on the TV, but make the difference between stopping or not stopping. Further, higher speeds and especially downgrades are more likely to induce sway. Always have your brakes working, adjusted correctly and know how to use them independent of the TV brakes.

Excellent post - thanks Raspy!


I'm to the point of picking the controller. I see a range from about $55 - $350 for proportional brake controllers for my 2005 Frontier. It's understanding the differences (or claims of superiority over other models) that is the tough part to navigate. Although I suspect this is like going from a CRT TV to ANY high def flat screen - a huge leap no matter what flat screen you pick. So in other words....any brake controller is better than none ;-) I did find one model that has a big button in the middle of a gain dial that you can mount up on the dash were you can easily hit the button in an emergency situation - seems much better than having to reach down to my knees while driving and perhaps performing an emergency manoeuvre. So I have some reviews to read, but other than that this looks simple enough to install and setup.


Thanks for the extra note about your aggressive setup and how it can help with sway. That makes total sense, but with all the new things to think about I can tend to miss the obvious!! Once of prevention in that direction could mean perhaps never having to deal with an emergency sway event!


Take care


-Bryan

[Bruce H]

For those of you who wonder if your vehicle has a factory installed built in integrated trailer brake controller. If it does it will be right there on the dash within reach of the driver. There is no such thing as one that is concealed or hidden. They all have some sort of adjustment buttons or dial to adjust the amount of amperage going to the trailer brakes (you set it for more for a heavier trailer)(or less if the trailer tires slide when you apply brakes). And they all have some sort of sliding switch that allows you to apply the trailer brakes independent of the tow vehicle brakes. The farther you slide the switch the more amperage it applies, thus more braking action on the trailer. That slider is spring loaded. When you release it, it returns to zero. Also, every time you start up from being parked activate that switch temporarily to see if your trailer brakes are working. You can clearly feel them if they are.

[Borrego Dave]

Bryan, you can't go wrong with either the Prodigy P2 or P3.

[Raz]

Your 2005 is the first year of the current generation of the Frontier and is for all intents and purposes identical to my 2017. The tow package includes a hitch, a 7 pin harness, a relay harness, and a brake controller pigtail. There is no brake controller included. Any Nissan dealer will sell you the pigtail for about $30. It should include instructions but it's easy to locate the plug without them. You can also find the instructions on line and buy an after market pigtail when you buy your controller. Connect the four wires on the pigtail to the four wires on the controller harness and the wiring is done. I posted setting up my 2012 Frontier. Post 3 shows where I mounted mine. I have a P2 which I'm very happy with. Good luck and enjoy your Frontier. Raz


http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...hed-57971.html

[Mike Magee]

Lad, check to see if your trailer has brakes on it, before spending on a controller. You should see hubs large enough to hold brake shoes, with a wire or two coming out. And you should have a 6-pin or 7-pin round plug going to your truck, not a flat 4-pin connector.


Stranger things have happened.....