Economical Tow Vehicle

[841K9]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Beyond that possibility, is that a Honda dealer's service writer may well take note of that trailer hitch on a Honda Fit and make note of it in the master record for that vehicle as a hedge against future warranty issues.

Technicians, dealers and manufacturers are very willing to void warranties. It is protection from liability.

Small things can lead to a warranty issue.
*towing
*oversize wheel/tire
*suspension
*suspicion of overload
*broken electronics seals
*programming modifications
*aftermarket air intake

[Mike Magee]

The solution is simple: we should all move to Europe, or at least to some country where the vehicles have decent tow ratings.

I wonder what the Fit's tow rating is in Costa Rica? I hear it's a great place to retire to.

[honda03842]

With respect to liability concerns, warranty concerns,.....

In many states school bus drivers do not let children off the school bus if their parents are not there to retrive them.

Is there justifiable paranoia in our society??? Or have we not learned to live with the increased information available today?

As a 5 year old child I walked to school as did all my friends without issue. There is no information that the number of 'out of bounds" people are any larger in number. Yet there is now an instutitional paranoia that I fear we are extending to our children.

In my view, one does the best they can after carefully considering the situation and lives with their decisions.

[Bob Miller]

With gas at about $8.50 a gallon in Germany and only slightly less in the U.K., it might be cheaper to just get a bigger truck and drive in the USA.
But you could retire to Venezuela where gas is currently spiking at about $.12 a gallon, but I understand the political climate down there leaves a bit to be desired.
Heres a link: Shocking Gas Prices Around the Globe - ABC News

[Ken Jr]

I pull this teardrop that I made with a VW Jetta TDI 6- man from Alaska to Ca and averaged
33 mpg. But the hitch kept coming loose on the VW & the dealer said it would void warranty.
The DW & I did not care for the teardrop it was a bit to small for us. The trailer was 1300 lbs with all gear & towed great Ken

[DonFromTexas]

Go here for a look: VIKING AIRCRAFT ENGINE USING HONDA ENGINE FOR LIGHT SPORT AIRPLANES

[honda03842]

This came to me by way of PM from someone who is very happy with CAN AM RV. They are Airstream Owners.

Certainly the aerodynamics of Airstreams makes them larger brothers of fiberglass trailers. The following link contains a rather interesting discussion about CAN-AM RV and Airstream towing.

The following link shows that a "properly equipped" small tow vehicle can successfully tow a rather significant trailer.

Whether one agrees with their approach, the results are impressive and their history of investigation and vehicle setup is impressive.

My purpose is not to create controversy but rather to show that there are other possibilities.

What size truck or SUV is best? - Page 6 - Airstream Forums

Information is always valuable whether accepted or rejected.

[841K9]

The Airstream weighs more than that Edge. (If that rolled into any Ford dealer, their warranty would be voided)
There is a difference between "pulling" and "towing".

My old Chevrolet 1 ton can "pull" a Brockway 360, however, that is not "towing". Towing involves not overtaxing your tow rig.(Engine, transmission, axle, frame) One must be able to safely stop, turn, pull up grade, stay in front down grade, deal with sway and wind.

You also have to remember that a smaller engine will have to work considerably harder moving an object when compared to something with more power and displacement. Working harder means that your engine will not last as long. Then, you have to consider the build of your vehicle. A unibody crossover like that Edge is not meant to pull 34' airstream. Now, your half ton may have a high enough rating to tow the weight, but is not meant to do so on a daily basis. (Half ton trucks are not what they were 20 years ago)

The last thing to consider when looking at those weights is fuel economy. The guy running the Toyota minivan was pulling 12mpg. Even my Chevrolet K30 "six pack" pulls 14mpg with a 6,200lb 1.25 ton pickup on a deck trailer. (Not including trailer weight)

This is just my opinion/experience. But, unlike Airstreams, fiberglass trailers don't generally weigh 5,000+lbs.

[841K9]

Originally Posted by DonFromTexas

Go here for a look: VIKING AIRCRAFT ENGINE USING HONDA ENGINE FOR LIGHT SPORT AIRPLANES

That is the most beautiful Honda engine I've ever seen. In Both mechanics and aesthetics.

[David Tilston]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

No one said anything was "Illegal", but intentionally driving/towing in an unsafe manner is illegal in most juristrictions. When the manufacturer sez Do Not Tow, or words to that effect, and you are involved in an accident, "unsafe manner" may well raise it's ugly head, even if the accident was the other drivers fault.
A lot of this stems from waaaay back to the first Corvairs when owners and dealer chose to ignore GM's stated tire pressures and helped them become "unsafe at any speed". In court, incorrect tire pressure was GM's #1 defense, and it worked well in many cases.
Beyond that possibility, is that a Honda dealer's service writer may well take note of that trailer hitch on a Honda Fit and make note of it in the master record for that vehicle as a hedge against future warranty issues.

Ohh,... Thank you! You have neatly summed up my argument that this is not a conversation about safety, just legal liability.

The assumption that if the manufacture's RECOMENDATIONS are not followed to a T, then you are unsafe. When in fact they have likely just used a much higher level of safety to guard against the lawyers successfully arguing that the operation of the product was too easy to do wrong. The assumption of the courts, in the US, is that a motor vesicle must be safe to be operated by all skill levels that the government licenses to operate a motor vehicle. That is of course an impossible task, but try they must. As you said it would otherwise look like they were engineering in an "unsafe manner", (your quotes).

So, there are three ways I can see to look at this. Either what I propose is true, that the herd of lawyers has artificially skewed the specifications of the North American automobiles, or the Europeans are much better drivers, or that the international manufactures of automobiles are conspiring to sell an inferior product in North American market.

My complete conjecture is, it's the lawyers.


Which do you pick, or do you have a different way to see it?

[Bob Miller]

In the 1950's Airstream ran an advertisement showing a Bambi being pulled by a bicycle. Knowing it must be true, by the mid 70's, when gas prices were already bumping $.50 a gallon, I bought a tandem bike so my wife and I could pull our 25' Airstream for our 1 year vacation. Unfortunately we couldn't even get it out of the driveway, so I sued Airstream for a bazillion dollars for misleading advertising and bought the two Vespa's I really needed for the job.
BTW: I read the article and there are no real mountains in TN & KY. A few hills, maybe.
"One persons bad idea soon becomes gospel to a million after it hits the internet"

[floyd]

Of course we have had these discussions "ad nauseum".
There really are only two sides...
Those who believe in the general competence and responsibilty of the individual, and those who do not.
The trend appears to be towards welcoming the Shepherd's Crook, as we become Sheople,eschewing personal competence and responsibility, as relics of a bygone era.
The question then becomes only... "To what degree is the trend justified by the circumstances."

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

In the 1950's Airstream ran an advertisement showing a Bambi being pulled by a bicycle. Knowing it must be true, by the mid 70's, when gas prices were already bumping $.50 a gallon, I bought a tandem bike so my wife and I could pull our 25' Airstream for our 1 year vacation. Unfortunately we couldn't even get it out of the driveway, so I sued Airstream for a bazillion dollars for misleading advertising and bought the two Vespa's I really needed for the job.

Bet you lost the law suit because you failed to air up the bike tires..

Other wise no problem!

Airstream Towed By Bike - Can-Am RV - YouTube

[melissab]

Gee, do you think the airstream was gutted inside??? Wish they'd shown us.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by melissab

Gee, do you think the airstream was gutted inside??? Wish they'd shown us.

They filled it with helium.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by melissab

Gee, do you think the airstream was gutted inside??? Wish they'd shown us.

If you think about it... Many of us move our Scamps around with a hitch dolly and only one person. Notice they didn't leave the parking lot.

[Bob Miller]

[QUOTE=floyd;304187]Of course we have had these discussions "ad nauseum".
There are really are only two sides...
Those who believe in the general competence and responsibilty of the individual, and those who do not.
The trend appears to be towards welcoming the Shepherd's hook, as we become Sheople,eschewing personal competence and responsibility, as relics of a bygone era.
The question then becomes only... "To what degree is the trend justified by the circumstances

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I think that at least one more side is being left out of the equasion, that of competency. While Joe may well make the decision to tow his 6000 lb trailer with a 40 HP VW Beetle, it's me, my s.o. and grandchildren that are along side of him when things go bad on a rainy day on the I-10 or heading down the grapevine grade.
IF (that's a big IF) everyone were competent to make these decisions it would be adifferent story but, just as 85% of Americarn drivers think that they are "Better drivers than average", I think that a lot of decisions are made by those that are not really competent to make them and create what is called "Collateral Damage" situations. If Joe wants to endanger Joe, that's his choice, but Joe doesn't have any right to put anyone else at risk.

[Raz]

"Those who believe in the general competence and responsibilty of the individual, and those who do not."

A while back, sitting in a Home Depot parking lot, I watched a guy put several 2x4's then several sheets of plywood on the rather curved roof of his rather small sedan and tie everything through the interior of the car with some very nice clothes line. He then got in his car and drove out the parking lot and down the road, one hand on the cargo and one the wheel. Needless to say, I did not follow him. Raz

[floyd]

[QUOTE=Bob Miller;304208]

Originally Posted by floyd

Of course we have had these discussions "ad nauseum".
There are really are only two sides...
Those who believe in the general competence and responsibilty of the individual, and those who do not.
The trend appears to be towards welcoming the Shepherd's Crook, as we become Sheople,eschewing personal competence and responsibility, as relics of a bygone era.
The question then becomes only... "To what degree is the trend justified by the circumstances

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that at least one more side is being left out of the equasion, that of competency. While Joe may well make the decision to tow his 6000 lb trailer with a 40 HP VW Beetle, it's me, my s.o. and grandchildren that are along side of him when things go bad on a rainy day on the I-10 heading down the grapevine grade.
IF (that's a big IF) everyone were competent to make these decisions it would be adifferent story but, just as 85% of Americarn drivers think that they are "Better drivers than average", I think that a lot of decisions are made by those that are not really competent to make them and create what is called "Collateral Damage" situations. If Joe wants to endanger Joe, that's his choice, but Joe doesn't have any right to put anyone else at risk.

Do you see a significant difference between the definition of the word competence and competency? If not , it would be hard to say it was "left out" of my post.

[MC1]

Don, that is nice looking rig. Luv the aerodynamics on the front of the car.