Fix for tire wear and positive camber - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-26-2016, 09:49 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Johnny M's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: '71 Boler, '87 Play-Mor II
Deep South
Posts: 1,205
Fix for tire wear and positive camber

We installed new tires on our '71 Boler this past year with what I believe is the original axle with no obvious signs of damage to the axle but we noticed that when looking at the tires at a distance from behind the trailer and on level ground the tires lean in toward each other at the top. The unit is not overloaded and I can feel some unusual "stepped" tread wear by feel on the tires and we have very few miles on them, probably less than 2K. While searching I found this photo on flicker and wondered if this is normal for Bolers and Scamps, mine is the opposite of the lower left image from the photo but knowing the axle was installed with a leading arm configuration (wheels forward instead of wheels backwards) this makes sense that mine tilt in instead of out. From looking at this picture it makes me think this is standard for this type of axle. Anyone else have this issue?
Attached Thumbnails
5079733760_8bf9b4ceb5_b.jpg  
__________________

Johnny M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 10:13 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
The Minimalist's Avatar
 
Name: Clif
Trailer: 08 Weiscraft Little Joe 14 Subaru Outback 2.5i CVT
Louisiana
Posts: 737
Registry
I'm not a Boler owner, but I know a few things about axles.

If that is the original axle on your '71, most likely you are seeing the result of 45 years of wear. When the axle is made, leading or trailing arm, it will be built with positive camber. The camber can be reduced by a number of things; bent axle, bent spindles or worn internal parts.

I'm thinking that the rubber torsion components of that 45 year old axle have seen their useful life and are compressed upward on the outer end of the axle tube, giving you a negative camber. Your only option in this instance is to replace the axle.

You may want to find out from some Boler owners who have replaced axles how much higher their trailers rode after the exchange. I'm thinking that your wheels are pretty far up in the wheel wells.
__________________

__________________
Clif
The Minimalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 10:21 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Johnny M's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: '71 Boler, '87 Play-Mor II
Deep South
Posts: 1,205
Thanks for the reply Clif...is there any reason why I should stay with a rubber torsion axle as opposed to one with leaf springs?

Also if it was a trailing arm installed as a leading arm or vice versa would that make the wheel tilt in the opposite direction or does that not matter?
Johnny M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 11:39 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Name: Donna D
Trailer: Escape 5.0 TA, 2014
Oregon
Posts: 24,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny M View Post
Thanks for the reply Clif...is there any reason why I should stay with a rubber torsion axle as opposed to one with leaf springs?
I'm not Clif, but leaf springs mean you'll need shock absorbers too. That means metal fabrication. Remember these trailers are like rolling earthquakes going down the road. A torsion axle has the dampening built in, with the rubber torsion.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 11:49 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 8,499
Registry
Really don't know much about it, but I'm wondering if the frame cutout for the drop floor at the door will create problems with spring mounting points on that side.

As to leading versus trailing, up is still up, so positive camber isn't affected.
Jon in AZ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 11:50 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Johnny M's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: '71 Boler, '87 Play-Mor II
Deep South
Posts: 1,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
I'm not Clif, but leaf springs mean you'll need shock absorbers too. That means metal fabrication. Remember these trailers are like rolling earthquakes going down the road. A torsion axle has the dampening built in, with the rubber torsion.
Thanks Donna for the reply but you can have a leaf spring axle without them although it might be a rougher ride...

http://rsleafspring.com/images/Ident...s%20IG%201.gif
Johnny M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 11:57 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 8,499
Registry
Why would you settle for a rougher ride? I'd want the smoothest ride possible for a travel trailer. Easier on the trailer and all its contents. Unlike a cargo trailer, where the final loaded weight can vary greatly, the loaded weight of a travel trailer can be anticipated fairly closely and the axle tuned for the load.
Jon in AZ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 12:03 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Johnny M's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: '71 Boler, '87 Play-Mor II
Deep South
Posts: 1,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
Really don't know much about it, but I'm wondering if the frame cutout for the drop floor at the door will create problems with spring mounting points on that side.

As to leading versus trailing, up is still up, so positive camber isn't affected.
If you inverted the entire axle 180 from front to back instead was my thinking on reversing the camber...as far as the rougher ride I agree I would not want a rougher ride just clarifying that you don't have to have shock absorbers with a leave spring axle, many stick built trailers don't have them

Oh and yes the drop floor might post a problem but I thought about elevating the ground clearance to accomdate
Johnny M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 12:06 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Johnny M's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: '71 Boler, '87 Play-Mor II
Deep South
Posts: 1,205
One of my reasons for the straight axle with leaf springs vs the torsion axle is the rubber torsion seams to be a weaker design to me and more prone to wear particularly of the rubber component.
Johnny M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 01:35 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
The Minimalist's Avatar
 
Name: Clif
Trailer: 08 Weiscraft Little Joe 14 Subaru Outback 2.5i CVT
Louisiana
Posts: 737
Registry
Generally speaking, I think you will get a better ride with a small trailer by going with the torsion axle. Several folks have recently gone to leaf springs from torsion axle and have commented on how bouncy the trailer is now. It's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's as if a torsion axle had shock absorbers. The rubber torsion elements respond differently to compression than leaf springs.
__________________
Clif
The Minimalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 01:39 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Name: Floyd
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
IllAnnoy
Posts: 7,441
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny M View Post
One of my reasons for the straight axle with leaf springs vs the torsion axle is the rubber torsion seams to be a weaker design to me and more prone to wear particularly of the rubber component.
You have one which lasted 45years and you are concerned about strength and wear??
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 01:41 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 8,499
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Minimalist View Post
Generally speaking, I think you will get a better ride with a small trailer by going with the torsion axle. Several folks have recently gone to leaf springs from torsion axle and have commented on how bouncy the trailer is now. It's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's as if a torsion axle had shock absorbers. The rubber torsion elements respond differently to compression than leaf springs.
Not just small trailers. Doesn't Airstream use rubber torsion axles?
Jon in AZ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 01:47 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Name: Donna D
Trailer: Escape 5.0 TA, 2014
Oregon
Posts: 24,957
Man, I was thinking the same thing Floyd. There's an old saying, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Yes, stick built trailers sometimes have leaf springs... we know what those used trailers sell for. Leaf springs are cheaper to install and replace. If you're good with tools you can replace an axle in the driveway. Can do the same thing with a torsion axle if bolting to a bracket.


Both of my trailers have torsion axles. Heck, the 5.0TA has two torsion axles AND springs.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 01:50 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 8,499
Registry
Judging by the number of pieces of broken trailer springs I have found at backcountry campgrounds, I don't think they are immortal, either.

This forum discussion has some helpful comments about the advantages and disadvantages of both: Leaf Spring vs. Torsion Axles. It's in the context of larger trailers and fifth wheels.

Here's more of a beginner's article: Leaf Spring Axles versus Torsion Axles
Jon in AZ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 03:40 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
sokhapkin's Avatar
 
Name: Sergey
Trailer: 2014 Scamp 16 layout 4, 2018 Winnebago Revel 4x4
SW Florida
Posts: 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
Heck, the 5.0TA has two torsion axles AND springs.
Which springs? Why?
__________________
Sergey
www.callwithus.com
sokhapkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 03:43 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Johnny M's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: '71 Boler, '87 Play-Mor II
Deep South
Posts: 1,205
Jon, Floyd and Donna you all make very good arguments and I guess 45 years is not too bad lol, I guess when I learned about the torsion axle over the last year or so and the post here about issues I got it in my mind that the rubber wasn't as durable as other types of axles...Jon I did not know Airstream used them too. I do like Donna's idea though of a bolt on torsion axle as I really don't want to cut & weld on my frame to remove and install a new one as the frame is in good shape.

And yes like sokhapkin said what springs?
Johnny M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 03:56 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Johnny M's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: '71 Boler, '87 Play-Mor II
Deep South
Posts: 1,205
Regarding the picture of the wheels tilting outwards, can this happen with a new one say from being under loaded? Is there an adjustment such as shimming the axle at the frame to correct this?
Johnny M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 04:07 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,972
Registry
It seems to me that switching out a rubber torsion axle for leaf springs/straight axle in like switching out your cell/smart phone a land line rotary dial phone.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2016, 04:23 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Name: Donna D
Trailer: Escape 5.0 TA, 2014
Oregon
Posts: 24,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by sokhapkin View Post
Which springs? Why?
It has springs because leaf springs are adjustable at the shackles. ETI is building 5.0TAs for many different pickups and it seems each truck manufacturer has a different bed height. I know my 4x4 Ford is a different height than a 2x4 Ford of the same model.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2016, 08:39 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Johnny M's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: '71 Boler, '87 Play-Mor II
Deep South
Posts: 1,205
Browsing here for axle information regarding Bolers & Scamps I found this Boler in which the owner replaced the torsion axle with a leaf spring type without shock absorbers. http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/i...34290/5674.jpg

Anyone here got a rubber torsion axle replaced on their Boler recently and if so what did you install and what was the cost of the axle by itself and the cost to have it installed.

I really don't want to pull the body off the frame again but I am concerned about someone burning my new wood subfloor or even worse the fiberglass during the process of cutting the old axle out and welding in a new one, (not to mention the possibility of damaging or weakening the frame)...read a post here about that happening to another Boler owner. I considered tackling it myself since I could take my time an exercise a lot more caution to prevent that from happening as opposed to someone trying to get mine in and out quickly for the next one in line...

Also another thought was the flammability of the rubber undercoating I sprayed on the subfloor, the flexible spray on rubber coating in a can stuff. I would hate to see all my hard work go "poof"
__________________

Johnny M is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1972 Hunter Compact Negative Camber Issue luckycharm Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 5 07-21-2014 07:25 PM
1985 U Haul with wheels w bad camber Susanne Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 2 05-27-2012 07:17 AM
tire wear Chris Z Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 6 06-27-2006 02:21 PM
Tire Wear Legacy Posts Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 27 04-16-2003 10:02 PM
Tire Wear Legacy Posts Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 1 04-14-2003 11:32 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
×