Ford Escape or Jeep 3.0L Diesel

[Kinslayer]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

AuContraire: For at least 10 years, even before I started pulling FGRV's with my 4 cylinder GMC and 4 cylinder Honda CRV, we, and many, many of our friends drove our 4 cylinder Toyota mini-motorhomes all over California as well as the rest of the U.S. and Canada, seldom over 55 mph. (55mph = 17 mpg, 65 mph = 12 mpg) And our turn signals always worked. And what's the big deal about stopping for gas ?

Well that being said, no one I saw was pulling an egg..never saw a single one actually.. And everyone was a nutcase.

trying to navigate for fuel is never fun unless you pull right off the highway at the first station you find.. a tiny 4banger motor home is one thing but pulling a trailer through anywhere with people with more money than brains (and that's saying something in a recession).. well that's not fun..

Not to mention that every station in the US seems to ask for a zip code at the pump when you pay with a credit card so you have to wait in line twice instead of never to get fuel..

All i'm saying is that the low RPM torque, fuel economy and long range are huge benefits in my books when it comes to an enjoyable long range drive pulling weight. Any distance on an interstate highway you are going to be doing 70mph because there is nothing but mega farms to see.. and on small windy hilly roads you need the torque to be able to enjoy the drive..

Yes, maintaining a diesel vehicle and initial purchase of the diesel vehicle might be higher but the ENJOYMENT of driving one, at least in my books, outweighs those costs.. If you RV close to home all the time who cares.

[MCDenny]

There will be a new diesel option available in the US this spring. The 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee is being announced Monday at the Detroit Auto Show and goes into production late January. JGCs (all are built in Detroit) have been sold in Europe and Australia with an Italian diesel since the current model launched in 2011. This is not the same as the Mercedes diesel used by Jeep in 2007 and 8 models. Also the 2014s will come with a new 8 speed auto trans that will improve both acceleration and mpg.

Pricing has not been announced yet but the diesel and V8 are the same price in Europe, if that holds true here the diesel would be no more than $2000 over the base 6 cyl gas engine.

Gas 6 cyl gets 17/25 in either 2 or 4 wheel drive. Tow rating is 6200 pounds.
Diesel gets 21/30 2 whl drive, 21/28 4 whl drive. Tow rating is 7200 pounds.

From what I read on the Jeep Garage forum, scheduled maintenance on the diesel is about the same cost as for the gas engine. Oil change for European cars is 12,000 miles or one year.

Using EPA combined ratings, the fuel cost for the 2 WD diesel is less than the gas v6 as long as diesel is less than $0.75 more expensive than gasoline. Over the last two years the US average is about a $0.40 premium for diesel. At 15,000 miles per year and a $0.40 price delta, the diesel saves about $200 per year, certainly not enough to justify a $2000 purchase premium but factor in the higher tow rating and better acceleration the diesel's torque provides makes it pretty tempting. Another interesting data point is that on fuelly.org diesel JGC owners report getting 11% better than EPA combined mileage while gas JGC owners report 4% less than EPA combined.

A Jeep Grand Cherokee is a little bigger than most of the tow vehicles discussed here but a lightly optioned Laredo is not much more expensive than a top of the line CRV or RAV4.

I'm towing a Snoozy that weighs around 3000# with 390# on the tongue with a 2007 V6 RAV4. It accelerates fine but gets lousy mileage, only about 15 mpg even driving a steady 60 mph. We are about at the limit of the RAV's capacity (actually over on tongue load) and I'd like to have some headroom plus we can then get a bigger trailer when the grand kids are old enough to go camping without upgrading our tow vehicle again. A new JGC is looking mighty good

[honda03842]

McDenny
I was wondering why your Snoozy tongue was so heavy. Is that by choice or design.

I assume you have no propane tanks or WD hitch on the tongue

As to a diesel, our goal is something in the 4 cylinder, 2 liter range delivering 40 mpg like Honda's 4400 lb towing capacity European CRV.

Other than that it's tough to give up our gas powered tow vehicle and 22 mpg.

[steve dunham]

[QUOTE=MCDenny;355530]



Over the last two years the US average is about a $0.40 premium for diesel.

I was looking at the 2014 Dodge Ram 1500 pickup which is scheduled to have a diesel engine as an option but the fuel costs have me worried. I filled up my truck last Friday and mid grade gas was $2.93 / Gal and diesel was $4.09/Gal . Where does one find diesel at only a $0.40 cents/ gal difference?
In my area the difference has remained about a buck/Gal for quite a while.

[Raz]

[QUOTE=steve dunham;355571]

Originally Posted by MCDenny

I filled up my truck last Friday and mid grade gas was $2.93 / Gal and diesel was $4.09/Gal . Where does one find diesel at only a $0.40 cents/ gal difference? .

Here in central Vermont where gas is pushing $3.60/gal

[cpaharley2008]

You will still have some squat with the JGC and 400# tongue weight as the Cherokee suspension is somewhat softer. Pulling is not an issue with the new diesel but you will probably need a w/d setup if over 3500# for the squat to disappear.

[MCDenny]

The $0.40 is the average over the whole country and two years. In the last 6 months in Michigan I've seen diesel the same price as regular and diesel $0.90 more than regular. Here in Fl now it is around $0.45 more.

The Grand Cherokee tow package includes a rear leveling suspension, basically automatic air shocks. I expect it will take out most of the squat.

[MCDenny]

Originally Posted by honda03842

McDenny
I was wondering why your Snoozy tongue was so heavy. Is that by choice or design.

I assume you have no propane tanks or WD hitch on the tongue

No propane or WD hitch. There are two Trojan T105 batteries in the tongue box and two 8" thick memory foam mattresses forward of the axle inside. Plus misc?? It sure adds up.

Snoozy factory says new empty trailers ( mine, #127, has an old heavier frame design) have about 200# tongue wt.

[rgrugg]

After 4 diesel powered Dodge trucks, I now have a gas Chevy Silverado. It has a 5.3 liter engine and gets the same or slightly better non-towing highway mpg as the last diesel. Towing the same trailer at the same speeds over the same territory, the gas Chevy has about a 2 mpg penalty as compared to the last diesel. In my case, towing our Egg Camper with a diesel truck would be overkill. I can tell you that diesel repairs are pricey (learned the hard way) and the diesel oil changes cost me more that twice as much as with the Chevy. All that said, sometimes the diesel puller is the only thing that makes sense. In our case, the gas Chevy was a good move and, with 4x4, the Chevy ride is WAY Better that any of our 4x4 Dodges. With my wife's back, that's a major consideration.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by MCDenny

I'm towing a Snoozy that weighs around 3000# with 390# on the tongue

Sounds like somebody actually weighed a Lil Snoozy!
This is something we've all been SO curious about- especially the tongue weight number.

Those numbers sound realistic to me, but I'd sure like to hear more about how it was loaded when weighed...


Francesca

[Ken C]

MCdenny,
the Grand Cherokee 3.0L EcoDiesel V6 engine in now up on their site. Looks to be up to 7400 towing , just scroll half way down. The Build and Price at top right of the page in not Live yet, It kicks me over to the 2013 not 2014, I'm Curious about the price.

Anyone know if the Quadra-Lift air suspension will self level on the 4x4 model when you hook up a trailer?

2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee| Fuel Efficient Luxury SUV | Jeep

[MCDenny]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Sounds like somebody actually weighed a Lil Snoozy!
This is something we've all been SO curious about- especially the tongue weight number.

Those numbers sound realistic to me, but I'd sure like to hear more about how it was loaded when weighed...

Francesca

When I weighed it we had just come back from our first ever camping trip and had taken clothes, food, etc out. Grey and fresh water tanks were empty. I put the trailer axle on the truck scale and recorded 2450#. I used a combination of a 325# "fish" scale and a bathroom scale and got 390# on the very tip of the coupler.

I'd like to weigh it again now that we are living in it pretty much full time. Tongue weight was only 250# with just the batteries added but none of the other parts.

A stock Snoozy has a light mattress in the front and a smallish (40# ?) battery under the mattress.

I put 130# of batteries in the tongue box, a case of propane cylinders, 60' of hose, the 30a 25' power cord and some misc junk. We also have a 30# mattress up front and another between that and the axle. Battery charger and converter under the front bed. A couple of folding chairs and an 10x12 screen stored under the bed.

[MCDenny]

Originally Posted by Ken C

MCdenny,
the Grand Cherokee 3.0L EcoDiesel V6 engine in now up on their site. Looks to be up to 7400 towing , just scroll half way down. The Build and Price at top right of the page in not Live yet, It kicks me over to the 2013 not 2014, I'm Curious about the price.

Anyone know if the Quadra-Lift air suspension will self level on the 4x4 model when you hook up a trailer?

2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee| Fuel Efficient Luxury SUV | Jeep

Ken, I saw the 'official' press release and about a hundred pictures go live on the Internet about 9:00 PM EST Sunday night. The official public unveiling was at the Detroit Auto Show this morning.

I'm curious about the price too. Jeep has revised their pricing quite a bit with the 2014s, making a lot of stuff including the Diesel engine unavailable on the Laredo and making a lot of formerly standard equipment on the Limited optional.

[MCDenny]

Yikes, it's an extra $4500 for the diesel!

[Ken C]

The build and price is still out for me. Jeep Garage says $4500 But that price point would chomp chomp my budget. I need a good tears streaming cry icon here.

[Jim Bennett]

If I was buying new again, that Jeep with the diesel would be getting strong consideration from me.

Alas, just dreaming for me, as my Pilot works just fine, is paid for, and I would really have to buck up some serious coin for the upgrade.

[Mike Magee]

$4500 option price and only in higher trims? They're not trying very hard to gain my business. Guess I'll wait for someone to offer a reasonably priced diesel. Or if no one does, well, my gasser is still doing the job.

[Ken C]

fuelly.org thanks Mcdenny, nice site to look over while shopping for a new tow vehicle.

[Bill in Pittsburgh]

$4500 option is steep. But I just can't sell myself on the Escape with front wheel drive. Since the most extreme off roading I do is a dirt or gravel road, I'm strictly a two wheel drive kind of person. Can't get used to the thought of having the front wheels doing everything. Also, I am strictly a rear wheel drive person. Old habits are hard for me to break. I come from an era where only Saabs, Lancias, and Audis had front wheel drive. Gosh, my choices in a vehicle have certainly narrowed. Did I mention I'm a manual transmission and windup window kind of person also? I don't need to have a blue tooth, I don't even know what it is.
Too bad the Escape is a front driver.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Bill in Pittsburgh

$4500 option is steep. But I just can't sell myself on the Escape with front wheel drive. Since the most extreme off roading I do is a dirt or gravel road, I'm strictly a two wheel drive kind of person. Can't get used to the thought of having the front wheels doing everything. Also, I am strictly a rear wheel drive person. Old habits are hard for me to break. I come from an era where only Saabs, Lancias, and Audis had front wheel drive. Gosh, my choices in a vehicle have certainly narrowed. Did I mention I'm a manual transmission and windup window kind of person also? I don't need to have a blue tooth, I don't even know what it is.
Too bad the Escape is a front driver.

If only they still made the AMC Pacer.