Ford Escape or Jeep 3.0L Diesel

[Bill in Pittsburgh]

We currently have a 2001 Jeep Cherokee, 4 liter/6cylinder, 5 spd manual, and 2 wheel drive. I am not ready to buy yet, but I know our Cherokee will not last forever. We use it for towing almost exclusively and am thinking ahead to our next tug.
We get a pretty consistent 17 mpg while towing our approx. 2200 lb and 230 lb tongue weight Lil Snoozy@ any speed under 62mph.
I need to be able to collapse the back seat as in our Cherokee so my wife can occasionally lay flat on her back while traveling (she has fibromyalgia). This need narrows our options. I considered a Honda or Toyota mini van but I desire better fuel economy.
I want something rated to tow a minimum of 3000# and would like to get considerably better fuel mileage while towing than my 17mpg.
Has any one had experience with the Ford Escape 2L EcoBoost? Another option is the Jeep 3.0L Diesel if Fiat ever gets around to offering it in the USA.
If anyone has had experience with the Ford or has any other suggestion, I would like to hear it.

[Rene]

If I had the opportunity I would grab a deisel over a turbo gas engine anytime. You need low RPM torque when towing and nothing has more torque than a diesel. Gas engines deliver their torque at much higher RPM's Deisel gives you more power and better fuel economy. The downside is that purchasing price and repair costs are higher. You need to put on more miles to pay for them.

[Mike Magee]

I am eagerly watching to see what mpg that new diesel gets. In Europe they supposedly get 33 mpg. That might mean 25+ while towing.

I'm also interested in the new Ford Transit diesel van that's coming.

[Tim Wood]

Bill, You already have the best engine that Jeep ever put in a vehicle. How many miles on her ? If it were me I'd look for another with the 4.0 engine but newer and fewer miles in great shape, I'm not sure but think they made them through 2005 ? I have a 2000 Cherokee with 170k and use it just for a winter rat, great vehicle.

[cpaharley2008]

I had the jeep Liberty CRD diesel, the only year, 2006 it was offered. First 100,000 miles was perfect then a $1600 tune up. It runs just as good now as brand new except diesel costs 20-30% more which equals to 20-30% greater fuel economy. I sold it 2 years ago to my nephew who is still driving it today, 150,000 miles. The CRD was a 4 cyl but with a turbo had the torque of a small v-8. I guess the eco-boost is similar but it is a gas with a turbo.

[MCDenny]

Bill, I know this is an older thread but wanted to let you know Jeep Grand Cherokee will offer the 3.0 diesel in the 2014 model which will be on sale next spring. (2014 JGC production starts Jan 22). They haven't released EPA mileage numbers yet but I would look for maybe 21/30 for the diesel. It will tow 7200#.

[Bill in Pittsburgh]

Originally Posted by MCDenny

Bill, I know this is an older thread but wanted to let you know Jeep Grand Cherokee will offer the 3.0 diesel in the 2014 model which will be on sale next spring. (2014 JGC production starts Jan 22). They haven't released EPA mileage numbers yet but I would look for maybe 21/30 for the diesel. It will tow 7200#.

With a plan to retire soon and much travel on my agenda, mileage is important to me. If I could hope for 24 mpg while towing, that would give me an improvement of 41% over my current mileage. A lucrative trade off for a 15% increase in fuel costs. I know all the cons, increased initial investment, some increases in maintenance, etc., but I think I'm just hankering for a diesel.

[Bob Miller]

Diesels and Hybrids both have the same basic problem, ya gotta drive the doors off of them to break even with the extra initial cost. Last time I checked, it seemed that the break even for diesel vs. gas in the same car was about 75-80k miles.
I'm also been told that ladies didn't flock to guys because they had a diesel something, anymore than they flock to guys with uber raised pick-ups... Again, my source tells me guys do that mostly for compensation, what ever that means..

[Andrew Gibbens]

When looking at diesel economics, you have to look at resale value too, unless you really expect to keep a vehicle for ever. There are European vehicles where it would make sense to buy the diesel version just because of its higher resale value, even if it cost the same to run. Chrysler has demonstrated an extreme version of this as it no longer bothers trying to sell gas-powered Voyagers and 300Cs in Britain.

Initially the resale value of diesel models may not be that good until the customers for used cars start to value the higher economy. But then you can get the reverse benefit - a cousin of mine drives only large gas-engined used cars since they can be bought so cheaply that the higher running costs are not a problem.

And European ladies are at least as likely as the men to be driving a diesel.

[cpaharley2008]

When diesel surged ahead of premium back 4 years ago was when I got rid of mine as the efficiency % vs cost effectiveness margin narrowed dramatically. I had a Jeep Liberty CRD which averaged 20 mpg towing and used to for 50,000 miles as a daily driver. But with another $10-15 dollar difference for fill up regular gas was starting to look better. Then you other issues, oil changes must be done @ 3000-4000 mile intervals and must be synthetic oil, average was $100 at the dealer. The vacuum pump went out @ 50,000 miles, cost was $1000 under warranty, but I had to stop at a truck garage for interim repairs on the road. They are great vehicles and will last forever, but they are expensive to maintain, more than a gas engine. You need to plug them in during the winter when it gets below freezing and don not ever run out of fuel. Also truck stops become your hangout vs the ritzy gas station which most women abhor.Just my observations, been there, done that.

[Bill in Pittsburgh]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Diesels and Hybrids both have the same basic problem, ya gotta drive the doors off of them to break even with the extra initial cost. Last time I checked, it seemed that the break even for diesel vs. gas in the same car was about 75-80k miles.
I'm also been told that ladies didn't flock to guys because they had a diesel something, anymore than they flock to guys with uber raised pick-ups... Again, my source tells me guys do that mostly for compensation, what ever that means..

This is actually a better payback than I would anticipate. 80k miles could come up in less than 3 years of retirement driving. So not bad for a vehicle one may keep for 10 or 12 years if well liked.
Currently we have 5 autos not counting a track car. Combined driving for my wife and I on 5 autos is in excess of 30K miles per year. Upon my retirement, we hope to go from 5 autos to 2 and will be doing considerably more traveling. So I anticipate miles to add up fast.

[cpaharley2008]

Not if gas goes up another $$, I drive 25% of what I did while working, although I still have 2 vehicles, I may only drive a total of 5000 miles a year, mainly camping.

[Kinslayer]

If you are towing a lot, diesel is where it is at, no question.. it costs a little more to buy at the pump but it drives you considerably further. When you are roadtripping your tow vehicle range really changes your trip.. when you can drive 1000KM on a single tank of fuel, to 120km (aka 70mph) up hills in overdrive pulling your fully loaded trailer you stop thinking about the drive and more about the scenery.

I pull my Boler with my 4L Jeep and it's great..but when we went to Tuscon over xmas I borrowed my Dads Dodge 2500 5.9L Cummins and I ended up getting better milage overall, less stress and more comfort.

I'd look for a 3L CRD grand Cherokee if I were you.

[Bob Miller]

The Gas v. Diesel War Rages On.....

Considering the the substantial additional cost for a diesel purchase, as well as higher maintenance costs, you would have to tow a lot of miles before you break even on fuel savings.

With the exception perhaps, of the Alaska Hiway, is there anywhere left where the next fuel stop is more that 200 miles away????? And, to get that 1000km range, you have to haul the weight of that much more fuel.

And enjoying the scenery (better?) at 70 MPH???? At least in CA, where the towing speed limit is 55 MPH, many of us drive at that speed anyway just so we can enjoy the scenery and the additional economy.

Yes, for some a diesel may bave an advantage, but I don't see that arguement here

[Kinslayer]

70 on the freeways, and for highways like the big sur it can haul you up steep hills without shifting, overheating and at a reasonable speed. It can also provide additional storage for devices and supplies to allow the towed vehicle to be packed in a more deployed state for easy camping at more locations.. regardless of the weight of fuel

and I forgot everyone loves pulling their trailer into those gas stations all the time.. my favorite.

I just drove the length of CA and no one does 55mph, or use their turn signals hah

[Bob Miller]

AuContraire: For at least 10 years, even before I started pulling FGRV's with my 4 cylinder GMC and 4 cylinder Honda CRV, we, and many, many of our friends drove our 4 cylinder Toyota mini-motorhomes all over California as well as the rest of the U.S. and Canada, seldom over 55 mph. (55mph = 17 mpg, 65 mph = 12 mpg) And our turn signals always worked. And what's the big deal about stopping for gas ?

[RogerDat]

I have a 2005 Ford Escape V6 with 3500 lb tow capacity but as I recall a much lower hitch weight capacity than one would expect given it's tow capacity.

We get ~25mpg driving at 70 mph without trailer and it still stays above 20 mpg with a scamp 13 towing at about 62 mph. It does seem to have plenty of surplus power, I have to watch it or speed will creep up toward 70 mph without me feeling a thing. Of course I think our camper weight is about half of yours.

Braking is where I "feel" that I have a trailer, really does not brake a trailer as well as I would expect given how far under tow capacity we are.

[cpaharley2008]

Does your Scamp have brakes? If not that may help.

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Does your Scamp have brakes? If not that may help.

Nope, no brakes. When and if I replace the axle I'll go with one that has brakes. Problem is axle is not shot but it is pretty worn, enough that my down angle ain't what it used to be. I want more clearence and bigger wheels, DW not impressed by need.

My best bet that a new axle is in my future is DW wants to go to Gettysburg for a trip and I'm not going to any mountains without brakes on the trailer. Even the little ones between Mi. and Pa.

I would really enjoy towing much more with trailer brakes I'm sure.

[honda03842]

RogerDat,

I was once towing my son's trailer and the trailer brakes failed just as I stopped for a light. I was truly surprised by the difference in braking ability. Trailer brakes, as I'm sure you know, make a real difference.