Ford Transit 2.2l Diesel

[BCDave]

According to the stats on this site, there are 20,138 members.

There are about 400,000,000 people in North America

That means that about 5 one-thousandths of one percent of the pop is on this site.

Lets say that this site represents one out of every 10 glass trailer owners (I'm speculating - bear with me)

So that'd mean that 5 hundredths of one percent of the pop is into small light glass trailers.

So: Given how diesels have been marketed and how they are perceived in N Am what are the numbers of folks who'd buy a diesel for fuel economy vs how many would buy it for the sheer torque and power?

How many think that if Frod or Fiat/Mopar or Nissan or... or... or... bring a diesel pickup or van or SUV to N.Am that it will be set up to get economy? How many folks would buy a Jeep for economy vs buying it for the perceived off-road capabilities and therefore the ability to LOOK LIKE you are a ruff 'n' tuff off-roader.


I figure that the 5 one hundredths of one percent may be a bit low, but maybe 5 tenths of one percent might be interested in buying one (IF it is promoted properly and IF diesels lose a lot of their stigma as slow, smelly & noisy beasts)

So of 400 million people, and one in 5 is a car/vehicle owner (8 million) and .05% of THAT many (40,000) represents the number who may actually be interested in buying one and of THAT number, how many will buy one in any given year?

Now if you owned the company, would you spend a kazillion bux on a product to chase THAT market segment?

Or would you develop a diesel that is seen to make heaps of torque and power and then offer it it in a light - to - medium duty truck for pulling 30 foot stickies?

Is your company thinking of importing an existing one sold in Europe??

Great! Lets do all the crash tests, all the smog tests, and do all the other stuff needed to get it certified here, so we can market it to the "350 people a year" who might want to buy one.

I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see diesels which are set up for economy in small truck/vans/SUVs being enough of a market segment for companies to chase.

According to some stats I saw on LARGE pickups- what Floyd calls "megatrucks" - 8 out of 10 full size dodges are ordered with the Cummins, (it has built a 20 year reputation as a monster torque puller!), 5 out of 10 Fords are ordered with Diesels, and 3 out of 10 big GM trucks (after GM ruined their own chances by producing such horrible diesels prior to their partnership with Isuzu) All are ordered for POWER not economy (even though my Duramax gets better fuel economy than my Toyota 4 runner - THAT is never mentioned in any ads!)

[GeorgeR]

I hope you are wrong, on other hand my daughter remembers well the GM diesel disaster in seventies, she has nightmares about it and she is 30 years old. You should work for an automotive press, they have a lot of "but, but..." about diesel.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...third-straight

George.

[Jim Bennett]

Dave, lots of people just don't want a big truck, the ones where diesels are offered. I have one myself, an F250 with a 7.3 liter Powerstroke in it. Tons of pulling power, great for when I have my dumping trailer loaded with rubble, but total overkill for pulling a small RV. In fact, hauling this dumping trailer is the only reason for me keeping this truck. I work in construction doing renovations and home building, and in this industry these days, there is little need for a big hauler.

My F250 does get near the same fuel economy as my Honda Pilot when towing my Escape 19, but towing is such a small part of any vehicle use. When not towing, the Pilot far exceeds it in fuel economy. Being smaller it is a much better vehicle to drive around and find places to park, and I am not afraid to take my F250 just about anywhere. Plus, it is way quieter with the windows rolled down.

North American sentiments towards vehicles, where the 'bigger the better' is starting to wane. Yes, there is still a strong need for large pickups in some sectors of industry, but truth be told, the vast majority bought are never are used to their capacity.

For the same reason that the LARGE pickups are bought with the big diesels for heavy hauling, the smaller vehicles should be fitted with them for lesser hauling situations, like light RV's, or even just for the payload capacity.

The main reason Ford does not bring the new larger Ranger to North America, is that it directly competes with the F150, the best selling vehicle ever on this continent. If the general mentality of people here get past the notion that they believe they need the biggest available hauler, and auto makers start offering a good hauler in a smaller size, they will become very popular as they are throughout Europe and Australia, and much of the rest of the world.

My big ol' diesel pickup has served me well, but I look forward to the day I can retire it from my service.

[dylanear]

Those GM diesels where poorly converted gas based designs. GM hurt the American's perspective on diesels for decades with that very bad decision. More a reflection of 1970's GM dysfunction, than on diesel's merits.

[BCDave]

Originally Posted by dylanear

Those GM diesels where poorly converted gas based designs. GM hurt the American's perspective on diesels for decades with that very bad decision. More a reflection of 1970's GM dysfunction, than on diesel's merits.

I agree completely. My big humongous 3500 Silverado with Diesel gets about 20 - 22 mpg on the highway, NOT towing. (Last run showed 10.2 liters consumed per 100 km)

My Toyota 4 Runner struggled to get 17 mpg.

I never towed with the 4Runner, but the Silverado gets about the same pulling my Bigfoot as the Toy did without pulling anything! Even towing my BIG trailer (hauling heavy stuff - so trailer is getting up to 10,000 lbs - Chev still gets 14).

Volkswagen & Volvo sold diseasels here - and struggled to get the % into double digits.

Folks are used to seeing diseasel badges on BIG pickups, but will stand in line for hours just for the privilege of NOT buying a diseasel in a smaller vehicle.

GM in the past 50 years has been the poster boy for screwups - they have known as the "worst-managed company in the world" since at least the early 70's - probably longer.

[dylanear]

Originally Posted by BCDave

Volkswagen & Volvo sold diseasels here - and struggled to get the % into double digits.

From what I've heard, many the VW TDI models have waiting lists. There is no shortage of demand. What percentage of US VW sales are TDI? Not sure, but they are very popular. Used TDIs generally go for a nice premium over their gas counterparts.

While there is a large, unfair perception about diesels in the minds of many Americans, there is also a large and growing base of people who see the merits and want one!

[GeorgeR]

Originally Posted by dylanear

Those GM diesels where poorly converted gas based designs. GM hurt the American's perspective on diesels for decades with that very bad decision. More a reflection of 1970's GM dysfunction, than on diesel's merits.

It was just a sarcastic note - my daughter is only 30, she can't remember what happen 40 years ago. The GM disaster memories are often stated by the automotive media to discourage diesels.

George.

[BCDave]

According to VW's website - you are correct! Diesel sales account for just under 19% of VW sales! (Heavy promotion of the 50 plus MPG pays off!)

The Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel fuels are causing VW a lot of headaches however, as the Cetane number is often very low by European Standards. ULSD fuels seem to cause European seals to shrink and fuel systems to leak - apparently this is often an issue with Euro-diesels in N America, and Mercedes has issues because of it, too.

[GeorgeR]

Originally Posted by BCDave

According to VW's website - you are correct! Diesel sales account for just under 19% of VW sales! (Heavy promotion of the 50 plus MPG pays off!)

Dave,

Would you buy VW TDI?, if not your opinion is representing the none diesel 81% VW population. I represent the 19% VW population, I have one. If you can post a link to a very positive opinion from major automotive US press about any diesels I would be surprise. It is a no brainier to find a negative press especially if it relates to press' hunger for 6s/60mph or better acceleration.

Do you think there was any money flowing to promote negative diesel press, what ever that amount was it likely dwarfs VW TDI promotion.

What happen to Sprinter's 3.5-liter V6 gas engine, gone. So 100% of Sprinter population is buying diesels these days.

George.

[GeorgeR]

Originally Posted by BCDave

According to VW's website - you are correct! Diesel sales account for just under 19% of VW sales! (Heavy promotion of the 50 plus MPG pays off!)

The Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel fuels are causing VW a lot of headaches however, as the Cetane number is often very low by European Standards. ULSD fuels seem to cause European seals to shrink and fuel systems to leak - apparently this is often an issue with Euro-diesels in N America, and Mercedes has issues because of it, too.

I thought that EU has Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel. I have 2006 TDI and have not heard about swelling gaskets. U.S. is 34th in Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Standards, EU countries are tops
You could be 81% right or not.

George.

[BigLew]

Everything I read says that the US car makers will continue with the Hybrid technology. I also would love to have a Honda or Suby with a Diesel.
I get sick every time I think about our 1977 Honda Civic CVCC 5sp hatchback that got 54 mpg 47 city. Nope, no air bags, and I could not use it for towing, but the kids sure slept good in the back of it during vacations.
BTW...Honda timing belts are to be changed between 60,000 up to 110,000 or so. They last a long, long time even if not changed, but your taking a chance not doing the replacement. My son left his go on a 2000 Taco with 215,000 miles on it, before I got it. I had my mechanic change it and the water pump at the same time and he said the belt was ready to break at any moment (tons of cracks and dry). My Honda Element (2009) has a chain.
Lew

[BCDave]

Originally Posted by GeorgeR

Dave,

Would you buy VW TDI?, if not your opinion is representing the none diesel 81% VW population. I represent the 19% VW population, I have one. If you can post a link to a very positive opinion from major automotive US press about any diesels I would be surprise. It is a no brainier to find a negative press especially if it relates to press' hunger for 6s/60mph or better acceleration.

Do you think there was any money flowing to promote negative diesel press, what ever that amount was it likely dwarfs VW TDI promotion.

What happen to Sprinter's 3.5-liter V6 gas engine, gone. So 100% of Sprinter population is buying diesels these days.

George.

My son has a VW Jetta Diesel. He traded DOWN in terms of years (had a 2000 Passat) as he would not buy a diesel newer than '97 as he wanted the all-mechanical version. (And no, I do not know why)

Would I buy one? No. (I NEVER buy a car that is less than 5 years old - preferably a 10 year old! - I'm not a millionaire so I can't afford new or even new-ish) I have driven his. It gives a whole new meaning to the term Gutless!

Since I don't read the "Road and Driver" - er oops - I mean "Car and Track" type of magazines I have no idea what they are saying about diseasels. (Now if Hot Rod, or Street Rod was looking at them - I could likely quote the article!) I really DO like the Camaro with a Duramax in it that I saw in one mag recently!

I'm still somewhat surprised to find that I have purchased a 2006 pickup as that is the newest vehicle I have owned in the past 15years!

The way mine runs, I'm awfully tempted to change my plans for my '56 F100, and put a Duramax in it instead of the 500 cu in Caddy that I'm building for it!

[Roy in TO]

But people that don't own FG trailers might want a diesel too.

[BigLew]

Did you guys know that the Ford Transit Connect is rated to haul nada, nothing, not one pound. The owners manual states that you can't tow anything with this van. Now that doesn't mean they couldn't change it in the future, but I find it amazing that it can't tow anything.

[BCDave]

Yow! Zero tow rating for the Connect? Did not know that, but I guess considering the size of it......

Wonder what the "Full Size" Transit will be rated for when it hits N Am? Apparently Dorf is planning on calling them the "I-series" as in I-150, I-250, and I-350 replacing the E-250 etc series.

[dylanear]

Originally Posted by BCDave

According to VW's website - you are correct! Diesel sales account for just under 19% of VW sales! (Heavy promotion of the 50 plus MPG pays off!)

That's got to be dramatically higher than any other make sold in the US, at least not including trucks. Nearly 20% is fairly dramatic to me. And I suspect that percentage will only grow.

[GeorgeR]

Originally Posted by BigLew

Did you guys know that the Ford Transit Connect is rated to haul nada, nothing, not one pound. The owners manual states that you can't tow anything with this van. Now that doesn't mean they couldn't change it in the future, but I find it amazing that it can't tow anything.

There is no gas engine in UK but 1.8 TDCi diesel towing limit is only 1760 lb / 800kg. So I am not surprise that with The Superior, Mighty Clean, Not Smelly, Super Shmooth, Uber Powerfull gas engine it can tow a zilch.
I forgot to add this:
http://www.anchorvans.co.uk/ford-specifications.php

George.

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by BCDave

Yow! Zero tow rating for the Connect? Did not know that, but I guess considering the size of it......

Wonder what the "Full Size" Transit will be rated for when it hits N Am? Apparently Dorf is planning on calling them the "I-series" as in I-150, I-250, and I-350 replacing the E-250 etc series.

Dunno, I read recently that Ford had copyrighted the T series names, "T-150" and so on. Seems like a shoo-in for the Transits.

The article I read also stated that many fleets and businesses are currently motivated to replace aging vans with more fuel efficient ones. Plenty of companies need the space of a van but don't need to haul or tow heavy loads. Think delivery vans, contractor's vans, that sort of thing.

[BigLew]

btw....after researching again, I found out that the CRV's after 2001 had a timing chain. I'm not certain on that year, but believe I am within a year or two. My Bad.

Originally Posted by BigLew

Everything I read says that the US car makers will continue with the Hybrid technology. I also would love to have a Honda or Suby with a Diesel.
I get sick every time I think about our 1977 Honda Civic CVCC 5sp hatchback that got 54 mpg 47 city. Nope, no air bags, and I could not use it for towing, but the kids sure slept good in the back of it during vacations.
BTW...Honda timing belts are to be changed between 60,000 up to 110,000 or so. They last a long, long time even if not changed, but your taking a chance not doing the replacement. My son left his go on a 2000 Taco with 215,000 miles on it, before I got it. I had my mechanic change it and the water pump at the same time and he said the belt was ready to break at any moment (tons of cracks and dry). My Honda Element (2009) has a chain.
Lew

[GeorgeR]

I was told by a local Mazda dealer that Mazda CX5 will likely be coming by April 2013 and towing could be increased even to 3500lb from the gas model. Time will tell. This diesel is not using urea to clean up the engine exhaust. So, this Mazda with Trillium Outback is on the list of my options.

Mazda's SKYACTIV®-D 2.2L Twin-Turbo Diesel Engine | Mazda USA - YouTube

George.