Full-timing w/4cyl SUV (rated 5000#); tow 16/17' (max ~3500#) or should stick to 13'?

[Derswede]

John, I raced a 123GT for several years, earned me the nickname of Derswede.

Redblock engines are just about indestructible. My 2005 S-60 was an R series car, a true sleeper. It almost made it to a million miles but a large GM SUV ended it. Older Volvos are great cars, with the exception of the S-60. There are about 20 in a scrapyard near the Volvo dealer here....dead transmissions. A frIend with over 40 yrs of experience said something similar to your comment, transmissions are much more fragile today. Personal experience, but I will stick to a manual, as long as they are still made.

Getting off topic, I apologize to the collective.

K0WTZ, my S-60 was the R model, manual trans, a true sleeper. Mostly regular maintenance, a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil and good oil kept it running well up to the day a GM SUV decided to commit suicide by pulling out point blank in front of me. My airbag did not even deploy, not a scratch on me. 45 mph collision. The Yaesu FT857 and ATAS 100 survived as well. Kid in the SUV was banged up, but not serious. The responding officer looked at my car and said, well, they are right, these are tough cars. Just under a million miles. Put 600K on a Turbo 740, and no idea on my first 122S. Tough cars, just less so today. 73 de N4ABA

[Jo1]

Hello all!!!

Thank you so much (I'm a bit overwhelmed with the response and so grateful)!
We're looking now for a 4500 Trilly (no bathroom, we'll do the shower tent and porta-potty) as it seems to be juuuuust in the right GVRW (2000#!) for us!

Since then I've been fastidious (and again, overwhelming myself) with looking at Trilly (used) info and searching for them!

The eight-speed does indeed not seem to be so recommended.
Turbo-charge engine information is helpful in gaining more insight into expectations.

The MPG figures are something to note!!

And thank you for the Volvo Redding recommendation!!

It's nice to hear from current and previous Volvo+trailer owners

However, I'll have to remember that it's not life or death (or so I hope) and If ANYTHING, we'll just change the TV or trailer when needed.

[Ervin in Portland]

Originally Posted by Jo1

Hello all!!!

Thank you so much (I'm a bit overwhelmed with the response and so grateful)!
We're looking now for a 4500 Trilly (no bathroom, we'll do the shower tent and porta-potty) as it seems to be juuuuust in the right GVRW (2000#!) for us!

Since then I've been fastidious (and again, overwhelming myself) with looking at Trilly (used) info and searching for them!

The eight-speed does indeed not seem to be so recommended.
Turbo-charge engine information is helpful in gaining more insight into expectations.

The MPG figures are something to note!!

And thank you for the Volvo Redding recommendation!!

It's nice to hear from current and previous Volvo+trailer owners

However, I'll have to remember that it's not life or death (or so I hope) and If ANYTHING, we'll just change the TV or trailer when needed.

Glad to see you are still following this thread. The Scamp 13 ft deluxe has a front dinette like you want and has a larger bed than the standard. They can put a Sani potty in it for you as well. Have you considered Armadillo Trailers out of Enderby, BC? They make a 13ft with a front dinette. They also have a new 14 ft model called the Backpack that is more square, has more windows, and the owners are very savvy as far as customization. I have been to their place of business and their trailers are beautiful. Very small company, require 75% down and are a little on the expensive side. Yet their 14 ft model still comes in at about 1900 lbs. Hope this helps.

[k0wtz]

[I have a 98 volkswagaon diesel beetle do not ever take one of these to a deal they call them stealship!

A good mechanic can figure out almost anything if he is smart!today its going in for another alternator its eats them for some reason. I am a little scared of the Volvos an such for some reason for towing our Ford Edge 2.5 is enough of a worry at tiems.

all I can say is buy what you want make sure it will do the job and carry on!

In Europe I saw trailers being pulled by Mercedes and such. the must kow something! LOL

Best of luck

bob


QUOTE=EllPea in CA;768624]Well, first of all, congratulations on scoring an EXCELLENT vehicle! I am a Volvo fan, have driven them for 40 years, and my hubby (just recently deceased) was the Volvo dealer here in the 70's.

I tow a 1989 13' Lil Bigfoot with a turbo-charged 2001 V70. It has a 5 cylinder engine. It has the "strength" to tow a heavier trailer, but is restricted by tongue weight. I suspect that your concern about pressure on the back tires is more related to how the rental trailer was packed, and the resulting tongue weight on your vehicle. Others here will give you more suggestions about how to pack, but try to remember not to pack your very heavy items in the front of the trailer... place them mostly over the axles.

I have just been researching tow vehicles, both the XC90 and the XC60. Everything I've read about the 90 tells me that it can do what you need. You don't mention tongue weight above, and I don't remember from my reading, but just make sure that whatever you buy is not too heavy up front!

At some point I'd like to sell my 13" and step up to a 17", which is why I've been looking at new vehicles. My V70 has the power to pull something heavier, but can only accept 165 lbs in tongue weight. So, at some point there will be a sweet little 13" with a front dinette and a porta potty (never used), available in your state :-)... and your XC90 could pull this baby like there was nothing back there!

I see that you live in California. Others have mentioned the difficulty in getting less common vehicles serviced. I have never had ANY problem getting service, at least here locally. Our local independent Volvo guru is the 4th iteration of my hubby's original service manager, and I'd trust him with my life. Whatever we need, he can do, and do it well. So, if you're in Northern California and need any service, go to Valhalla Volvo in Redding.[/QUOTE]

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Jo1

We're looking now for a 4500 Trilly (no bathroom...

However, I'll have to remember that it's not life or death (or so I hope) and If ANYTHING, we'll just change the TV or trailer when needed.

Exactly! You're buying them, not marrying them.

Heads up on several issues specific to vintage Trilliums...

(1) Windows. They are screwed to wood strips inside the shell. Many have rotted wood due to neglected leaks. Ask the seller when they last sealed the windows and whether they replaced the wood strips. If you aren’t confident in their answer, assume you will be doing this repair.

(2) Belly band. All Trilliums eventually leak through the belly band. I don’t recall all the details of the fix, but it takes some fiberglass work and a fair bit of time. Excessive caulk around the belly band trim is a warning sign. Again, find out if it’s been done already.

(3) Floor. The fiberglass floor has a wood core. If water gets in (cracks, screws, plumbing penetrations...) the wood can rot. Repair is a bear. If the floor feels spongy, pass.

(4) Frame. The weak spot is where the frame curves upward at the front of the cabin. Look for cracks (bad) or a proper fishplate reinforcement (good). A questionable frame can be refurbished, but you’ll have to separate the shell from the frame.

(5) Sag. My memory is a little fuzzy on this, but some units develop a sag in the front curbside corner forward of the door. No known fix.

Three other things are worth mentioning. First, the door has a molded strip that doesn’t quite align with the belly band near the door handle. It’s normal, caused by a molding error. Second, the bolts that hold the shell to the frame rust out over time. More than a few people have discovered their trailers are holding together mainly by gravity and friction. Replacement is not a big deal, but it’s something to check right away. For some it’s an opportunity to lift the shell off and refurbish the frame.

Third, and this affects many older molded trailers, rubber torsion axles have a working life of 15-20 years but can roll on well past with decreasing ride quality. Try to find out if and when the axle was last replaced. One simple test is to jack up one side of the trailer on the frame near the axle and see how much the wheel drops as the frame sides. Little or no movement means an aged out axle. Figure $800 or so for replacement including labor.

The Trillium 4500 is a great size- the larger bed is a welcome upgrade over the 13’ers. But they’re hard to find, and if it turns out to have some of the issues described, you could be looking at a fair bit of downtime before you can hit the road.

As to life and death... Have the propane and electrical systems inspected and tested by a professional and install up-to-date safety detectors. Make sure you have working trailer brakes, good tires properly inflated (check date codes), greased bearings, torqued lug nuts, properly adjusted coupler and safety chains, and correct weight distribution with 10-15% tongue weight when loaded. If desired, add an inexpensive sway control device for an extra measure of safety. Combined with conservative, defensive driving, you’ll be as safe as any towed rig can be.

[thrifty bill]

Huge fan of vintage Trillium -300 and 4500, but they do have their issues.

Become a Trillium expert by reading the various repair threads: Randy Bishop and Dave Tolstoy have each owned several, and done some great work.

If you plan to boondocks, then a working propane furnace is very important. If you will always have electric hookup, it’s not important. The old Trilliums came with gravity furnaces which are no longer available for RVs. So on many old Trilliums the furnace is gone (mine is gone).

Portable solar super easy to hook up if the battery is on the tongue. I put a quick disconnect on mine.

Check carefully for ANY floor rot. The Trillium design makes rot less common but when you get it, it’s nearly impossible to repair.

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by johnwen1

Roger dat on the stopping going down the hill

The area that was scaring me was traffic lights. Light goes to yellow and with the trailer I can't stop and lack the rapid acceleration to clear the intersection before the red light, and possibly the cross traffic getting a green light. But yes the steep downhills are way more comfortable with trailer brakes than without.

With trailer brakes on our 13 ft. scamp the stopping distance of tow vehicle with trailer is shorter than without trailer. The trailer offers more additional braking power than it adds additional weight/momentum.

The post about using same gear going down the mountain as you used going up is pretty accurate. At least in a stick shift. Low gear will keep you from using your brakes so much that they overheat. This is one other slight advantage a larger engine offers. In low gear it provides more engine drag to hold down speed.

However despite my own preferences for a V6 or V8 I know my parents when they retired to Colorado pulled a small 5th wheel all over in the mountains using a Toyota 4 cyl pickup trusk with a 5 speed manual transmission. Creeper 1st gear to get moving and a general tow package. No problems and good results.

You read the owners manual and go from there. I like the Trilliums I have seen. Seem like a nice layout and a solid camper. Good luck finding the one that is meant for you.


If you do the porta pottie in a small tent you might want to think about having a raised platform. Those things are really low to the ground. As in if I could squat that low then I could still use a tree & a cat hole. Something to set the pottie on that raises it 6 to 8 inches or so will make that thing more comfortable to use.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

Randy Bishop and Dave Tolstoy have each owned several, and done some great work.

I believe Randy refurbishes and sells them as a hobby business. You might send him a private message and see if he has a 4500 in the pipeline. He will take care of the window and belly band fixes if needed. He’s in Alabama IIRC.

BTW, I believe it’s David Tilston. Canadian, not Russian...

[Scamp-13]

I tow a 13’ scamp without a bathroom loaded at about 1850lbs and tow with a 2016 Mazda CX-5 with a 2.5L and I usually tow from Lacrosse, Wi to the tip of Door County, WI, about 322 miles. There’s no really steep grades but some decent inclines (hills) along the way. Firstly, I’d recommend electric brakes, having that extra braking power is something you’ll never be sorry about. But in my experience, the cx5 does fine but really ‘winds up’ towing at about 60mph.. it works really hard at it. It’s enough work for the motor that I will not drive it down to Florida for the winter through the smoky mountains.
In my experience, I’d prefer a six cylinder tow vehicle and with that comes a little more tow vehicle weight which I feel would make things safer -even with a 13’ scamp at 1850#. Part of towing is feeling comfortable with everything you have tooling down the road and having a buffer only makes you more comfortable towing.

[Jon in AZ]

The OP’s turbocharged 4 will produce more peak torque at a lower RPM than either a naturally aspirated I4 or V6. But understand: when turbo boost kicks in it’ll still be working hard, just in a different way. Turbocharging (or supercharging) forces more air into the cylinders, allowing more fuel to be burned on each cycle and creating more heat and forces on all the internal engine parts, which have to be strengthened in a turbocharged engine.

On the other hand, I’m not sure why there is such an objection to winding up smaller non-turbo engines. They’re engineered to run that way, and it’s not like you’re anywhere close to redline. Close manufacturing tolerances and modern synthetic oils substantially reduce friction and wear.

We don’t tow with our ‘06 CRV 2.4L, but we do live in the mountains, and it sings up the grades at 3-4K RPM with a full load of people and cargo. There is reserve power to pass when needed. 200K and still doesn’t use oil between changes. We tow our 13’ Scamp (a little lighter than yours) with an ‘11 V6 Pilot and have to wind it up on the grades, too. 175K and no oil consumption. Both get oil changes every 5000 miles with a synthetic blend.

Whether by adding cylinders, increasing RPMs, or forced induction, there’s no free lunch. You carry or pull the load, you burn the fuel.

The real question is whether the manufacturer did their homework to ensure that a particular engine can go the distance when operated within specifications, regardless of what technology is involved.

[Ervin in Portland]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

The OP’s turbocharged 4 will produce more peak torque at a lower RPM than either a naturally aspirated I4 or V6. But understand: when turbo boost kicks in it’ll still be working hard, just in a different way. Turbocharging (or supercharging) forces more air into the cylinders, allowing more fuel to be burned on each cycle and creating more heat and forces on all the internal engine parts, which have to be strengthened in a turbocharged engine.

On the other hand, I’m not sure why there is such an objection to winding up smaller non-turbo engines. They’re engineered to run that way, and it’s not like you’re anywhere close to redline. Close manufacturing tolerances and modern synthetic oils substantially reduce friction and wear.

We don’t tow with our ‘06 CRV 2.4L, but we do live in the mountains, and it sings up the grades at 3-4K RPM with a full load of people and cargo. There is reserve power to pass when needed. 200K and still doesn’t use oil between changes. We tow our 13’ Scamp (a little lighter than yours) with a V6 Pilot and have to wind it up on the grades, too. 175K and no oil consumption. Both get oil changes every 5000 miles with a synthetic blend.

Whether by adding cylinders, increasing RPMs, or forced induction, there’s no free lunch. You carry or pull the load, you burn the fuel.

The real question is whether the manufacturer did their homework to ensure that a particular engine can go the distance when operated within specifications, regardless of what technology is involved.

Dang, great advertisement for Honda!

[Jon in AZ]

Hondas have been good to us, but they aren’t what they used to be, IMO. I try to evaluate each purchase with a clean slate. Our most recent was an ‘18 RAV4, because I’m not happy with Honda’s decision to go with a small turbo and a CVT transmission in the new CRVs. Reliability has been slipping, too. Slacking off on the homework, maybe?

The RAV4 is my wife’s new ride and the CRV is happily schlepping our two teen daughters to school up and down the same mountains, 50 miles a day. They’ve been told they’ll be riding a big yellow bus if they slack off on their homework.

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I believe Randy refurbishes and sells them as a hobby business. You might send him a private message and see if he has a 4500 in the pipeline. He will take care of the window and belly band fixes if needed. He’s in Alabama IIRC.

BTW, I believe it’s David Tilston. Canadian, not Russian...

Yeah, typical auto correct, which I hate!!

[steve dunham]

I’ve owned two Hondas , one was a lawnmower, always hard to start and a 10 hp outboard which ran pretty well .

[Iowa Dave]

I have a 1978 Honda rototiller FR700. I bought it new in Newton Iowa. The first ten years I owned it, I tilled 1,100 gardens and grossed about $15,000 dollars. I’ve worn out several sets of tines, a few pairs of drive belts and three clutch cables. As soon as the snow goes off I’m taking it to a guy for a tuneup. Where I worked we had Honda generators, Honda leaf blowers, pressure washers etc etc. The only engines that were problematic were 22 horse V 2’s on Bearcat leaf vacuums that ate capacitors like Boy Scouts eat ice cream on peach cobbler. Otherwise the Honda’s have been very very good to me.
Iowa Dave

[Jo1]

Thank you for your detailed pointers, Jon and bill!!!

We finally stumbled upon a trillium 4500 closer to where I live.
After much delay, should be picking it up fairly soon.

(I snooped around and found two older for sale threads that I suspect are the trailer we've made a deal on... a number of fixes and upgrades to components of the trailer since, so I am optimistic and guarded all the same)

Thanks Scamp-13 for your reply, I appreciate your input