Gas vs Diesel - Fiberglass RV
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-18-2019, 12:11 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
ThomasC's Avatar
 
Name: Tom
Trailer: BigFoot 25B25RT
Massachusetts
Posts: 592
Gas vs Diesel

I know this has been rehashed many times but there is one angle no one seems to mention. I just got a new F-150 eco-boost and it has twice the load and towing capacity that I will need for my Bigfoot 25TB that I should have in the next few months.

Back to the real world. I towed my Styrofoam box to Florida a couple of weeks ago. I could get about 10 mpg with the cruise set to 65. Assuming I could get 50% more with a diesel that would be 15mpg.

Gas at $2.30 per gallon works out to 23 cents per mile. Diesel at $2.75 per gallon is a little more than 18 cents per mile.

A Ford F-150 is not available with a Diesel in 2019. So move up to an F-250 which is more money and then the diesel engine option is more than $10,000 more. So if the difference between gas and diesel is about 5 cents per mile then $10,000 divided by .05 = 200,000 miles. Even if I double the efficiency of the diesel to 20 mpg I would still have to drive 100,000 miles to break even.

So why diesel.
ThomasC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 12:34 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
Posts: 4,500
There are many good reasons to purchase a diesel , cost savings is not one of them . Last winter diesel fuel was almost $1 per gallon higher than regular gasoline . At that price a diesel will never pay for itself even if you keep the truck forever . I have never has a car go over 100,000 miles before the body rusted away so a 200,000 mile engine is meaningless
steve dunham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 12:39 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,524
Registry
In light trucks and cars, diesel now has pretty heavy competition from gas.
I prefer gas in this category.
While most light truck diesels can pull very well, they suffer greatly when unladen in terms of performance and now only offer insignificant gains in pulling power.

Diesel requires more scheduled maintenance, fuel costs more, and it is marginally more difficult to obtain.
New diesels now require converter fluid as well.
It also takes a lot of miles to recuperate the initial cost of purchase of the diesel option.
The idea that there is a longevity gain from light truck diesels has dwindled to the status of a myth.
All considered, gasoline, especially EcoBoost in a light truck, offers capable towing and lively performance, along with competitive fuel economy and cost.
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 12:58 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Trailer: 2008 Casita 17' SD
Washington
Posts: 2,061
Registry
Not to mention that Diesels are noisy as hell, and I also never liked that nauseating stench Diesel fueled vehicles produce when burning it.
Casita Greg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 02:08 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: Bigfoot
California
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
In light trucks and cars, diesel now has pretty heavy competition from gas.
I prefer gas in this category.
While most light truck diesels can pull very well, they suffer greatly when unladen in terms of performance and now only offer insignificant gains in pulling power.

Diesel requires more scheduled maintenance, fuel costs more, and it is marginally more difficult to obtain.
New diesels now require converter fluid as well.
It also takes a lot of miles to recuperate the initial cost of purchase of the diesel option.
The idea that there is a longevity gain from light truck diesels has dwindled to the status of a myth.
All considered, gasoline, especially EcoBoost in a light truck, offers capable towing and lively performance, along with competitive fuel economy and cost.

I'm curious as to which specific 'more scheduled maintenance' items you mean. The largest maintenance item I had was the fix for the VW scandal, and VW did that for free and paid me $5000 when it was done. And cost of diesel fuel depends on where you live. In most of the areas where I drive, (San Jose, California, Las Vegas NV,) diesel is typically cheaper. We also have an alternative fuel available in San Jose that is 100% approved for all diesels and is a renewable biomass including recycled fats and oils. (Not biodiesel, this is something different.) It's even less expensive than regular diesel. Of course fuel costs in California are ridiculous regardless of which you burn.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Casita Greg View Post
Not to mention that Diesels are noisy as hell, and I also never liked that nauseating stench Diesel fueled vehicles produce when burning it.

Have to disagree here. Small diesel engines have a different sound than a gas engine of course, but modern diesel vehicles are pretty well insulated and aren't significantly louder than gas engines. I actually like the sound of a diesel over a gas engine but that's personal preference. I've never noticed any terrible smells from either my VW Jetta SportWagen TDI or my Chevy Colorado Duramax. However I do notice my neighbor's gas engines. A cold gas engine produces a very harsh smell. Much worse than any diesel (again in my opinion).



My VW gets 40-45 mpg on the highway, and my 15 gallon tank will get me over 600 miles between fill ups. My Colorado gets 30 highway not towing, and 15 - 18 towing my Bigfoot. Similar vehicles with gas engines can not come anywhere near those numbers. I put 50,000 miles on my first VW before my ex got that in the divorce, I put 80,000 of the 150,000 miles that are on my VW, and I put all of the 38,000 miles my truck has. There is not a spot of rust on either. The truck does require DEF, so that I agree that is an added cost.



Not sure if any of this applies to the F250 gas vs diesel question but this is my diesel experience.
JonRaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 02:50 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,524
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonRaw View Post
The largest maintenance item I had was the fix for the VW scandal, and VW did that for free and paid me $5000 when it was done.
That's not scheduled maintenance.


" There is not a spot of rust on either."


Of course not, you live in California,

Automotive sheet metal is not a victim of California corruption.
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 03:36 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Raspy's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: Roamer 1
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,904
Diesels have a different character than gas engines and that is one of their biggest advantages. Plus they get 30-50% better mileage.

The overall payback may not work out for long time, but the extended range and excellent torque pay off with every trip and every tow. I didn't buy one to have a lower vehicle cost, I did it because of the unbeatable towing characteristics. A relaxed low speed engine, good mileage, excellent reliability, and incredible torque. Along with an engine that is very likely to outlast the truck. Non turboed gas engines run at a much higher RPM when working, and turboed gas engines have very high internal stresses that are worrisome to me. Their fuel management systems are complicated and must work exactly as designed. Turboed gas engines with direct injection have an interesting design that makes a small lightweight engine act like a larger engine. As long as they keep working as designed.

Diesel is now about 40 cents cheaper than gas and has been, around here, for quite a while.

As far as diesel noise goes, that extra music went away in about 2003. They are now about the same as gas engines. So judging them now, based on what they were 15 -20 years ago doesn't make much sense. Diesels have come a long way toward being easy to live with, for folks that don't like them.

There are basically two schools of thought here. One likes gas and is used to it. This group will tell us about the smell, the noise, the cost, etc. Others like the diesel character and are willing to put up with a higher initial cost to get it. That's because we like the mileage, the torque and the character of them. Diesels are worth more money to many of us. But if you don't care about the diesel qualities, it's hard to pencil it out as an overall

Emissions regulations and noise regulations have required diesels to run clean, and run quiet. The age old arguments against noise and smell seem laughable now. Unfortunately, these emissions regulations have made the exhaust systems much more complicated and expensive. This is one area where gas engines have a big advantage, much simpler emissions equipment.

Diesel and gas engines are getting closer to each other a far as engine character and performance goes, but it will always be true that diesel fuel has more energy in it than gas, especially with ethanol gas, and the engine is inherently more rugged and efficient. A lot of money gets spent on fuel while traveling with a trailer. Getting more from each tank on those trips is a good thing.

Another smaller benefit is storage of fuel. Diesel can sit for years and be fine, gas, no way. This benefits those using it for heating oil, or on ranches where tractors are being used and fueled. Modern pickup trucks can borrow some of the benefits that industrial engines have enjoyed for years, such as long life, high torque, good economy, easy fuel storage and fuel safety.

Modern 1/2 ton trucks with the new generation of smaller diesels are getting 30 MPG on the highway, while still having around 450 ft lbs of torque when needed. Pretty hard to beat those numbers
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
Raspy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 07:48 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casita Greg View Post
Not to mention that Diesels are noisy as hell, and I also never liked that nauseating stench Diesel fueled vehicles produce when burning it.
Today's diesels are not nearly as noisy or smelly as they used to be.
The new catalytic converters and DPF take care of that pretty well.
That being said they are more expensive to buy and maintain and the fuel is more expensive as well, but they do produce more torque at a lower rpm.
Also that being said the new TSI turbo gasoline engines are better than the old, but we don't know how well they will perform over time as respects the maintenance expense etc.
redbarron55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 08:28 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,524
Registry
Well now you can see that knowledgeable people have opinions which differ on this subject. There are plenty to choose from to get what fits your needs best.



As an example...
Compare the 4Cyl Ranger with the 4CYL TurboDiesel Colorado..


The Colorado is rated to tow 200 pounds more than the Ranger.
(for roughly twice the price.)
The Colorado gets 1MPG LESS in City and 2MPG MORE on the highway.
( on higher priced diesel fuel)


OH! ...And the Ranger will BLOW the Colorado's doors off.
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 09:05 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Name: Justus
Trailer: Currently Shopping
California
Posts: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasC View Post
I know this has been rehashed many times but there is one angle no one seems to mention. I just got a new F-150 eco-boost and it has twice the load and towing capacity that I will need for my Bigfoot 25TB that I should have in the next few months.

Back to the real world. I towed my Styrofoam box to Florida a couple of weeks ago. I could get about 10 mpg with the cruise set to 65. Assuming I could get 50% more with a diesel that would be 15mpg.

Gas at $2.30 per gallon works out to 23 cents per mile. Diesel at $2.75 per gallon is a little more than 18 cents per mile.

A Ford F-150 is not available with a Diesel in 2019. So move up to an F-250 which is more money and then the diesel engine option is more than $10,000 more. So if the difference between gas and diesel is about 5 cents per mile then $10,000 divided by .05 = 200,000 miles. Even if I double the efficiency of the diesel to 20 mpg I would still have to drive 100,000 miles to break even.

So why diesel.
Your information is dated. A 3.0L diesel is available on the 2019 F-150 XLT and higher. It falls short of the 3.5L EcoBoost but should still pull a 25' Bigfoot. It is the least efficient of the big 3 light duty diesels (available 2020).

Your fuel economy assumptions are just that. Fuel prices are not fixed across the country. The myth of lifetime cost savings has been covered many times before here and elsewhere. It seems like your mind is made up and you're seeking assurance. In that case, all of my number crunching has led me to conclude that Ford's EcoBoost trucks are the gold standard of efficiency vs capacity among gas trucks.

I have read reviews claiming that hypermilers achieved 40mpg in the new 2020 Ram and Silverado light duty trucks with six cylinder diesel engines. How that translates to conservative driving with a trailer, I'm not sure.
Justus C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 09:10 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
ThomasC's Avatar
 
Name: Tom
Trailer: BigFoot 25B25RT
Massachusetts
Posts: 592
I didn't realize diesel is cheaper than gas in some parts of the country. I find that very odd. Conspiracy theory coming at 11.
ThomasC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 09:12 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Civilguy's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Trailer: Escape 21 & Jeep GC 5.7 (Previous 2012 Casita FD17 & 2010 Audi Q5)
Puget Sound, WA
Posts: 1,775
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casita Greg View Post
Not to mention that Diesels are noisy as hell, and I also never liked that nauseating stench Diesel fueled vehicles produce when burning it.
I like it!

It reminds me of when I worked on a cattle ranch way back when I was lean and kind of muscular. We spent a lot of time working with a Unimog, a late 60's D5D, and I can't recall what all other equipment.

Road apples too, for the same reason, they still smell great to me!
__________________
~ “It’s absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious.” Oscar Wilde ~
~ “What the human being is best at doing is interpreting all new information so that their prior conclusions remain intact.” Warren Buffett ~

Civilguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 09:17 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Glenn Baglo's Avatar
 
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
When you compare diesel and gas, what grade gas are you using?
At the moment, Gas Buddy reports regular gas price in North Vancouver from $1.27.9 a litre to 1.35.9.
Diesel is $1.33.9 to 138.9
About a month ago, diesel was 30 cents a litre higher than regular gas.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
Glenn Baglo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2019, 07:58 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
OCJohn's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: Hymer
California
Posts: 200
Registry
We’ve been a diesel family since 2003. Two VWs and a Ford Excursion. Initially I was attracted by the Golf TDI’s fuel economy AND at the time that California did not require annual smog inspections for diesel. (That’s since changed, and the state now treats diesels the same as gas vehicles despite that none of the smog stations have equipment to test diesel emissions – they just look at it and charge a fee...)

The Excursion replaced an aging small block powered Suburban to pull a 24’ enclosed car trailer. Huge improvement. We no longer have the car hauler, but the Ex is still with us as my daily driver and TV for the Hymer GT.

Both VWs are gone now. The first went to 250k+ miles and got traded in for the 2nd, a 2014 Jetta Sportwagen. VW’s buyback for the dieselgate thing was too good to pass up, so we replaced that with a Buick TourX gasser (which we LOVE).

The drop in fuel efficiency has been dramatic, but whatever. What we miss most is the RANGE. Both VWs could go 600-650 miles per tank (as does the Ford) and none of our diesels used DEF. The Buick doesn’t go half that far – about 280. After the diesels, it seems like it always needs gas.

I miss the range. And that, more than anything, is why I’ve never seriously considered an electric powered vehicle. I like me some range.

EDIT: reflecting on this, I guess my fondness for diesel has always been stimulated by convenience. Convenience for avoiding smog inspections (until recently), convenience of towing, convenience of low maintenance and convenience of longer range/fewer fill-ups. Sometimes I am willing to pay for convenience. So the gas vs diesel decision is not purely a cost per mile equation for me.
OCJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2019, 08:44 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Alex Adams's Avatar
 
Name: Alexander
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1300
New Hampshire
Posts: 1,140
Not to stoke controversy, but recent research (last 10 years) is leading to the scientific and medical communities to the conclusion that there is NO safe level of diesel emissions particularly for infants and children. Apparently the nano-sized particles produced by the diesel burn process can cross the blood-brain barrier and affect the development of the brain. It's one of the reasons some countries in Europe is banning diesel passenger cars from urban areas and working on electric cargo trucks.
Alex Adams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2019, 09:49 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,524
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Adams View Post
Not to stoke controversy, but recent research (last 10 years) is leading to the scientific and medical communities to the conclusion that there is NO safe level of diesel emissions particularly for infants and children. Apparently the nano-sized particles produced by the diesel burn process can cross the blood-brain barrier and affect the development of the brain. It's one of the reasons some countries in Europe is banning diesel passenger cars from urban areas and working on electric cargo trucks.
Unfortunately we live in a time when science often follows policy instead of the other way around, leaving it suspect even when it is correct.
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2019, 10:16 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
vintageracer's Avatar
 
Name: To Infinity & Beyond!
Trailer: 1985 Uhaul VT-16 Vacationer, 1957 Avion R20 & 1977 Argosy 6.0 Minuet
Tennessee
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasC View Post
I know this has been rehashed many times but there is one angle no one seems to mention.

Gas at $2.30 per gallon works out to 23 cents per mile. Diesel at $2.75 per gallon is a little more than 18 cents per mile.

A Ford F-150 is not available with a Diesel in 2019. So move up to an F-250 which is more money and then the diesel engine option is more than $10,000 more. So if the difference between gas and diesel is about 5 cents per mile then $10,000 divided by .05 = 200,000 miles. Even if I double the efficiency of the diesel to 20 mpg I would still have to drive 100,000 miles to break even.
Couple questions you might wish to consider to help you answer your question above about the gas versus diesel debate:

1. Will you LIVE LONG ENOUGH to drive your new vehicle 100,000+ miles to the magic break even point between cost of a diesel powered vehicle versus a gas powered vehicle?

2. Is it your history from past vehicles you have purchased to keep a vehicle you purchased NEW for 100,000+ miles to reach that 100,000+ mile break even point?

If you do keep your vehicle that long and for that many miles according to NADA (National Automobile Dealers Association) you are a rare breed as less than 10% of all new private/personal vehicle buyers do so.

3. Will your current fascination with camping/travel still be there when your current vehicles reaches 100,000+ miles?

4. Will your future health allow you to continue to travel when your vehicle reaches that magic gas versus diesel break even point of 100,000+ miles?

5. Will you be able to continue to manage the hitching, unhitching and maintenance of a truck/trailer combination in the years it takes you drive 100,000+ miles on your new truck?

6. How many of those 100,000+ miles will involve pulling your trailer?

7. How much if any will the price difference change between gas and diesel change either positive or negative for you during the years it takes you to drive that magic 100,000+ miles?

Ya gotta crystal ball?

8. Have you considered in your analysis the additional cost of DEF fluid required for operation of a diesel trucks today and the increased cost of maintenance associated with owning and operating a diesel truck versus a gas truck?

9. Is there a difference in COST TO YOU for title, yearly registration, personal property tax on the vehicle if applicable in your state of residence, any other BS taxes accessed by your state government, any cost difference in VEHICLE INSURANCE between a diesel truck versus a gas powered truck in your state of residence?

10. Do you just WANT a diesel power truck or do you have a REAL NEED for a diesel powered truck?

Most folks just want one versus need one!

I could go on and on!

As you can see there is LOT MORE to consider when making the decision to gas or diesel when comparing similar vehicles with gas versus diesel engine combinations for the same purpose.

I own multiple diesel powered trucks/vehicles and multiple gas powered trucks/vehicles. Each has their purpose. NONE of any of those vehicles is good for everything and every situation therefore multiple vehicles for multiple needs.

By the way "I" am selling my diesel powered "Daily Driver" Ram truck this week and replacing it with a gas powered vehicle. I do not need to drive a truck on a daily basis as I do not need the capability of a truck on a daily basis.

Best daily driver I ever had was a POS 2000 Toyota Echo. You could pile all sorts of crap in it and still get almost 40 MPG!

Choose wisely my friend!
__________________
Mike

Remember "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts"!
vintageracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2019, 10:35 AM   #18
Junior Member
 
Name: Tryonbrewer
Trailer: Northern Lite
South Carolina
Posts: 20
The argument of diesel vs gas seems to be more about personal preferences. I have 4 gas and 3 diesel vehicles in the garage (includes the farm tractor). Drive your gas vehicle towing a load on undulating terrain or up a slope and the automatic transmission will shift up, down, up, down and fuel economy will be awful. Do this with most diesel trucks and it's a relaxing ride with no upshift/downshift stress. They just eat the road up and keep going, with little change in fuel economy over running empty.



Also, I know a few folks with over 500k (some over a million) miles on their trucks - that tow frequently cross country. How many gas trucks will survive that abuse for that many miles? To me, it's about intended use.



I drive a Jetta TDI wagon. Anyone that says this car is more expensive to own than a gas vehicle needs a reality check. Virtually maintenance free except filters, oil changes and a timing belt each 80,000 miles is about it. 45 - 47 MPG is hard to beat and the 550 mile range on a tank of fuel is great.
tschager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2019, 10:44 AM   #19
Junior Member
 
Name: Gnuu
Trailer: Sprinter
Virginia
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Unfortunately we live in a time when science often follows policy instead of the other way around, leaving it suspect even when it is correct.
One study, funded by the EPA, looked at diesel emissions in over 60 california jurisdictions. They isolated about 1/3 of them to use and found a high correlation between lung problems and diesel emissions. Interesting, another firm looked at the jurisdictictions and found out that in a second third, there was a negative correlation between lung problems and diesel emissions - e.g. diesel prevented lung problems. They also found that in the last third, there was no correlation between diesel emissions and lung problems. So which is it, do diesel emissions - (1) Cause (2) Prevent or (3) have no effect on - Lung Problems?
In a second study with human subjects - they exposed a bunch of people with lung problems to diesel emissions. They did not inform them that it was EPA opinion that diesel emissions could cause fatalaty in people with lung problems. Happily, no one developed any additional lung issues. However, no one was charged with failure to use consent forms that warned the people being studied that they could be killed by the study.
Moral - I do not trust any study funded by either the diesel industry or the governments.
Walk in Peace,
Scribe With A Stylus

ps - Randomized double blind studies with patients divided equally into subject groups are the gold standard in medical tests. However, how in the world do you conduct such tests -> ethically <- when the presumption is that you are going to substantially damage the health of half the subjects. This whole area is an ethical mine field.
ScribeWithAStylus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2019, 12:09 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Name: Henry
Trailer: BigFoot
Tennessee
Posts: 1,312
My daily driver is a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD (Diesel). Over 200K miles. 30 mpg. No problems, first was just done about $1500. That's it. Great car, will not ever get rid of it (maybe for electric if I live that long). Change oil (full syn) every 5K miles.

Have 2011 Toyo Tundra 4x4 with tow package. Towing get 10 to 11 mpg on average. As low as 2-3 mph going up hill in the Sierra Nevada's. 26 gal gas tank. No problems of any kind. Change oil every 5K miles. Over 120k miles. Tows Big Foot 25RQ ok but not great overall. Trying to decide if I need to change to a diesel.

A relative (long haul trucker for many years many, many miles), bought a new Ford 150 3.5 EcoBoost. Towed his 5th wheel from Knoxville, TN to SoCal every year for 4 years, no prob. I suggested he needed to get a stronger truck, he laughed at me. This last season on the way home the engine blew up just this side of Memphis, TN. Needed a completely new engine. He sold it, not sure what to use next.

Go with your gut feeling.
Rzrbrn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gas vs Diesel Prices Bob Miller General Chat 37 01-28-2013 06:53 PM
Just gas or gas/electric water heater? Feedback wanted. Bryan L. Care and Feeding of Molded Fiberglass Trailers 15 09-15-2010 09:11 AM
Diesel cars and towing power Frank G. General Chat 4 03-04-2007 08:49 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.