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11-28-2017, 08:11 PM
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#1
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Member
Name: Jim
Trailer: Escape 17B
Nevada
Posts: 32
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I need a new tow vehicle, are automatics as good as manual transmissions nowadays?
My tow vehicle is getting old (15years, 260,000miles), so I've been looking at what's available. It has a manual transmission. I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 4.7 V8 to replace it, but it is not as nice a tow-er as my current tow.
Do the modern transmissions do a better job of picking the right gear when climbing a grade? I have to manually shift the jeep in order to get the right gear at the right time.
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11-28-2017, 08:26 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
Posts: 4,500
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I put my truck in drive / tow haul and go or tow. I do not pretend that I am smarter than my vehicles computer. We have made multiple trips through the Rockies and the Appalachian mountains and never felt the need to manually shift anything except the radio from AM to FM. The 8 speed transmission in my Ram truck seems to know what gear is best for the conditions so I leave well enough alone. I fully admit that I am not a car guy , wasn't one when I was a teen and 50 years later nothings changed.
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11-28-2017, 08:41 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Name: Robert
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Past Tents" 2018 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB SuperCrew
Arkansas
Posts: 1,298
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"As good as" is a loaded term. In many cases, today's automatic transmissions are actually more efficient than a manual. Technology changes.
I'm turning in my F150 in a few months (lease end) for a 2018 and am looking forward to the new 10 speed transmission, I can tell you.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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11-28-2017, 09:27 PM
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#4
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Member
Name: Jim
Trailer: Escape 17B
Nevada
Posts: 32
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Right now I get 14 mpg driving the posted speed limit (75 in 80mph zones). If I slow down to 'max' 65mph I get 17. This was on a trip a few weeks ago Las Vegas->Bellingham,WA->Las Vegas.
Not bad for a normally aspirated gasser with 260K on it!
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11-28-2017, 11:43 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim99
My tow vehicle is getting old (15years, 260,000miles), so I've been looking at what's available. It has a manual transmission. I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 4.7 V8 to replace it, but it is not as nice a tow-er as my current tow.
Do the modern transmissions do a better job of picking the right gear when climbing a grade? I have to manually shift the jeep in order to get the right gear at the right time.
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Judging from my new Ford (personal experience) and from my exposure to other brands...
The new automatic transmissions are better engineered with better shift strategies and the ability to lock the torque converter in any gear. This gives less heat and more efficiency. There is more than one shift strategy available in automatic modes and most have a "manual" select mode as well.
Much better than their predecessors.
Ford's manual transmissions are still more efficient with more control and much cheaper to maintain over time, but they don't offer a significant tow rated vehicle with a manual here in the states.
I just bought my first new automatic (for personal use) in forty years.
It works as intended and is more tolerable than any automatic I have driven. I have now towed more than a thousand miles with it in all conditions and paved terrains. I like it well enough to say that it mitigates much of my disappointment in being "forced" to buy it.
The transmission does not "hunt" if left in drive and would do the job well, even when it downshifts on steep grades.
However,even though it is not called for, I prefer to use manual mode for areas with lots of grades since the torque converter unlocks to shift and I prefer to do that in "no load" conditions like at the bottom of a grade rather than under a full load half way up. Same is true with descending a steep grade.The "Sport" mode and the manual mode both offer engine braking down grades.
Tangent note...
Even the ABS and associated functions are much improved and are practically useful rather than "criminally dangerous" like most earlier systems.
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11-28-2017, 11:55 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
I put my truck in drive / tow haul and go or tow. I do not pretend that I am smarter than my vehicles computer. We have made multiple trips through the Rockies and the Appalachian mountains and never felt the need to manually shift anything except the radio from AM to FM. The 8 speed transmission in my Ram truck seems to know what gear is best for the conditions so I leave well enough alone. I fully admit that I am not a car guy , wasn't one when I was a teen and 50 years later nothings changed.
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Even if the computer is smarter than you are, it is blind to upcoming grades. Don't be surprised if the GPS is someday tied in to the shift strategy to alleviate this problem and the associated wear.
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11-29-2017, 12:23 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Name: Dave
Trailer: Casita SD17 2006 "Missing Link"
California
Posts: 3,738
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Floyd
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11-29-2017, 02:30 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Name: John
Trailer: Escape 21, behind an '02 F250 7.3 diesel tug
Mid Left Coast
Posts: 2,941
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the shop manager of a local transmission repair shop said, 'the more gears, the more expensive they are to fix and the more often they fail'
me, I'm towing with a Toyota Tacoma 4x4 4.0L V6 and a 6 speed stick shift. when I'm towing, I never use 6th, and I'll downshift to 4th for most significant grades. been all over Northern California, and Oregon this past year, haven't met a mountain I can't keep 55-60 MPH going in 4th.
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11-29-2017, 06:41 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Trailer: No Trailer Yet
Posts: 721
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I updated from a 2007 Silverado 5.3L 4 speed automatic to a 2017 Seirra 6 speed automatic with Echotec3 V8 5.3L engine.
The ten year difference between the two similar trucks is unbelievable.
On a certain down hill section the brakes on the 07 would overheat and engine braking totally eliminated that.
For instance when towing with the cruise control on going down hill when the speed reaches 5 MPH over the set speed engine braking is used to slow the vehicle.
The load.hual button does not make any noticeable difference with the 3000# Casita.
Not to mention the 3 to 4 more MPG I'm getting.
I've learned to let others blaze the trail on new technologies. The 6 speed has been around long enough to be debugged and the 10 speed has just been released.
Joe
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11-29-2017, 07:14 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Name: Bill&Laura
Trailer: 1988 Bigfoot Fiver
Kentucky
Posts: 814
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I agree with your agreement of his statement
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borrego Dave
Floyd
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Well said!
__________________
"All that is gold does not glitter,
not all those who wander are lost..." J.R.R. Tolkien
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11-29-2017, 08:31 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
Posts: 4,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd
Even if the computer is smarter than you are, it is blind to upcoming grades. Don't be surprised if the GPS is someday tied in to the shift strategy to alleviate this problem and the associated wear.
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The computer is smarter than I am which is rather obvious.
I never contended the computer was smarter than you.
I have friends who have fairly new vehicles and they are constantly trying to out think their vehicle's computer by continually manually shifting their automatic transmission. They seem to be in search of a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. They get no better fuel mileage than I do, it seems they have far more mechanical problems than I do and their vehicle doesn't perform any better than mine does.
As my Dad use to say " Leave it alone and guit playing , it's working just fine "
Are computer controlled automatic transmissions perfect ? NO
but neither are the manual ones controlled by humans especially teenage boys !
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11-29-2017, 09:17 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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And another thing... HEAT!
There is almost nothing else that matters when it comes to transmission damage.
With all the clever little "apps", everything from ambient temperature to instant MPG, even low washer fluid, but no "trans temp" readout.
Heck, it doesn't even have a dipstick!!
Fluid monitoring is difficult.
At least on my Ranger 5spd manual I can simply touch the shifter to monitor trans temp since its a single rail.
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11-29-2017, 09:23 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Name: Alexander
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1300
New Hampshire
Posts: 1,140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd
With all the clever little "apps", everything from ambient temperature to instant MPG, even low washer fluid, but no "trans temp" readout.
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If there is a temp sensor in the transmission that "talks" to the computer, you may be able to use a wireless OBD2 scan tool and an App for your phone or tablet to get that information.
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11-29-2017, 09:27 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Trailer: No Trailer Yet
Posts: 721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd
And another thing... HEAT!
There is almost nothing else that matters when it comes to transmission damage.
With all the clever little "apps", everything from ambient temperature to instant MPG, even low washer fluid, but no "trans temp" readout.
Heck, it doesn't even have a dipstick!!
Fluid monitoring is difficult.
At least on my Ranger 5spd manual I can simply touch the shifter to monitor trans temp since its a single rail.
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One of the "information" settings available on my new 2017 Sierra is "transmission fluid temperature" AND it even has a transmission dip stick
Joe
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11-29-2017, 09:52 AM
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#15
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Member
Name: James Y.
Trailer: Companion
Ohio
Posts: 83
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Fuller UltraShift® Transmission vs Automatic
Recently I rode in a truck (straight truck) that had a manual transmission, regular clutch, but no clutch pedal. As a former semi truck driver I has fascinated by the computer doing all the shifting except for reverse. The computer up shifting and down shifting was flawless (no grinding or jerky starts) even coming up out of a loading ramp. The driver chose forward, neutral, or reverse. I believe he said it had an Fuller UltraShift® Transmission . This truck had the economy and durability of a manual but the convenience of an automatic. Maybe one day it will come to the automotive side.
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11-29-2017, 09:57 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Romas
One of the "information" settings available on my new 2017 Sierra is "transmission fluid temperature" AND it even has a transmission dip stick
Joe
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For my TC... Ford just says to have the fluid changed every 150000 miles and don't worry about it, maybe they are right.
My Gramma said you should not pull radishes out of the ground just to check their progress!
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11-29-2017, 10:06 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim G. - Ohio
Recently I rode in a truck (straight truck) that had a manual transmission, regular clutch, but no clutch pedal. As a former semi truck driver I has fascinated by the computer doing all the shifting except for reverse. The computer up shifting and down shifting was flawless (no grinding or jerky starts) even coming up out of a loading ramp. The driver chose forward, neutral, or reverse. I believe he said it had an Fuller UltraShift® Transmission . This truck had the economy and durability of a manual but the convenience of an automatic. Maybe one day it will come to the automotive side.
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It has been in cars for about a decade, manual trans with a dual clutch with paddle shifters and an autoshift mode.
I think Getrag builds them for Porsche and Ford, there may be others.
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11-29-2017, 12:30 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Name: Dave
Trailer: Scamp
Colorado
Posts: 108
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Back in the day I had a 1967 ish VW bug with the auto stick. It was a manual transmission without a clutch. It was an odd thing.
I used to be a die hard manual transmission fan but the new automatic transmissions require less maintenance and last as long or longer than manuals. With a manual you will need to change the clutch and other items long before an automatic needs attention.
For anything other than a sports car my default choice is an automatic now days.
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11-29-2017, 12:42 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fixer
Back in the day I had a 1967 ish VW bug with the auto stick. It was a manual transmission without a clutch. It was an odd thing.
I used to be a die hard manual transmission fan but the new automatic transmissions require less maintenance and last as long or longer than manuals. With a manual you will need to change the clutch and other items long before an automatic needs attention.
For anything other than a sports car my default choice is an automatic now days.
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Your default is an automatic in most cases , no choice involved.
While the new automatics have improved...
I disagree with your entire second paragraph.
(except of course for the first ten words)
The issue is effectively moot anyway.
I just conceded defeat with my last purchase and along with it have de facto accepted the baggage which comes with it. Its not all bad.
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11-29-2017, 12:43 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Name: Michael
Trailer: Trail Cruiser
Alberta
Posts: 825
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I've used both. The newer automatics seem to work well. On the downside, if they fail they are expensive to fix. I prefer a manual because I can select the gear for either going up or down hill. I also get better fuel mileage with a manual shift and I've never had a gearbox overheat.
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