Jetta towing issues.... caution

[BCDave]

"How do streetrods etc get a tow rating?" They don't. I am not sure but I "think" (well, sometimes I do, even though it never does any good!) that the concept of "tow ratings" is relatively new. I doubt that a '37 Chev ever had a tow rating, nor a '23 model "T"

I have never been able to find any reference to a tow rating on my '57 Chev, or even on my '76 LeMans or my '80 pickup. My '92 GMC was rated to tow up to 10,000#, BEFORE I swapped out the 3/4 ton rear axle and susp for a one-ton rear end, and now it has a rating of ???????? I still use the 10,000 as a guideline and seldom haul anything much over than that

I am wondering if the insurance industry instituted "tow ratings" at some point between 1980 and 1992?

Woodall's Camping Life Magazine has an on-line, searchable data base of towing capacities for "all vehicles" from 1991 to present which can be found here: http://www.campinglife.com/towrating/index.cfm

[floyd]

Originally Posted by BCDave

"How do streetrods etc get a tow rating?" They don't. I am not sure but I "think" (well, sometimes I do, even though it never does any good!) that the concept of "tow ratings" is relatively new. I doubt that a '37 Chev ever had a tow rating, nor a '23 model "T"

I have never been able to find any reference to a tow rating on my '57 Chev, or even on my '76 LeMans or my '80 pickup. My '92 GMC was rated to tow up to 10,000#, BEFORE I swapped out the 3/4 ton rear axle and susp for a one-ton rear end, and now it has a rating of ???????? I still use the 10,000 as a guideline and seldom haul anything much over than that

I am wondering if the insurance industry instituted "tow ratings" at some point between 1980 and 1992?

So how are they allowed to tow in Canada without a tow rating to get past the tow weight spot check?
The insurance industry doesn't set tow ratings in the states.

[BCDave]

Originally Posted by floyd

So how are they allowed to tow in Canada without a tow rating to get past the tow weight spot check?
The insurance industry doesn't set tow ratings in the states.

I can't speak for any other provinces but here I don't think they bother with small trailers (too much). The one and only time I was ever pulled over they didn't even look at any tow rating for my truck, (they may have just noted the 8-bolt wheels as opposed to the 6-bolt wheels on a light-duty 3/4 ton) but they did run my trailer (I was pulling my flatdeck with a car on it at the time) onto the wheel scales and then inspected my trailer tires to ensure that they were trailer rated, that the gross load capacity of the 4 tires added up to more than the registered gross weight of the trailer and that my "Dynamite pack" (breakaway emergency brake system) was functional. To do that, they yanked out the lanyard and asked me to pull ahead, which I could not do as the trailer brakes were then locked. After re-inserting the pin in the breakaway switch, I was free to go. (and they checked that all trailer lights were functional) Oh - one more thing - they do not allow the lanyard for the breakway to be attached to the hitch or drawbar - it must be attached to a solid part of the tow vehicle. (in case the hitch breaks away) In my case, I attach the lanyard to the rear bumper of my truck.

Not sure what laws are here for requiring brakes on what size trailer. For example, my teeny-tiny boat trailer (it carries a 13 foot sailboat) does not have brakes, and I am about 99.9% sure it doesn't need them.

By the way - for anyone visiting BC, if you have a tandem axle with brakes you MUST HAVE brakes on all 4 wheels!

I suspect that the vehicle manufacturers set the tow ratings and would not likely be doing so if it were not required. I very strongly suspect that the insurance industry was instrumental in ensuring it is required, just as they were in getting the 5 mph bumpers set into law.

[Carol H]

You make the eronious assumption that manufacturers ratings are codified throughout North America. While that may be true of Canada (I can't say)... it certainly is not the case in the U.S. for light trucks or cars.
Are you refering to national Canadian law, or just BC?
Would one pound over be enough for a draconian reaction ?
Do they go by actual weight, license plate, or the trailer's axle capacity?
I have met several Canadians who were towing fiberglass trailers with Streetrods, Hotrods, and custom built vehicles. How would they get a tow rating?[/QUOTE]

Floyd the police here in BC do set up road blocks - I am aware of them doing it pretty often on the Vancouver Island Highway where there are a lot of guys with truck/camper combos hailing boats. Yes they do sometimes have a portable scale with them or they may do it right by a highway scale and they do check the decals on the boat for weight and the camper for the weight and they will ask the driver for their manual to check the manufactures stated towing rate. If what they have loaded is over the limits they will make them unhook right there and the driver will be charged.

The law is part of the BC Motor Vechile Act. Would be really suprised if most other provinces &/or states do not have something along the same lines.

The little snip below is from: http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/vehicle...PDF/MV3230.pdf

"Check your owner’s manual to find your vehicle’s towing capability. If you tow a load that is too heavy for your vehicle, you create a potential safety risk for yourself and others on the road. Motor Vehicle Act Regulations in British Columbia prohibit the operation of vehicles that are unsafe or improperly loaded and exceed either the Gross Axle Rating (GAWR) or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). The Province is focusing on vehicles that are obviously overweight and pose a risk to the safety of other motorists. These regulations apply to vehicles manufactured after January 1, 2001 that have a GVWR of 5500 kg or less. "

Dave it looks like your good to go with the 37 :-)

Might be worth peoples time to take a closer look at their state or province Motor Vehicle Acts.

[BCDave]

Originally Posted by Carol H

You make the eronious assumption that manufacturers ratings are codified throughout North America. While that may be true of Canada (I can't say)... it certainly is not the case in the U.S. for light trucks or cars.
Are you refering to national Canadian law, or just BC?
Would one pound over be enough for a draconian reaction ?
Do they go by actual weight, license plate, or the trailer's axle capacity?
I have met several Canadians who were towing fiberglass trailers with Streetrods, Hotrods, and custom built vehicles. How would they get a tow rating?

Floyd the police here in BC do set up road blocks - I am aware of them doing it pretty often on the Vancouver Island Highway where there are a lot of guys with truck/camper combos hailing boats. Yes they do sometimes have a portable scale with them or they may do it right by a highway scale and they do check the decals on the boat for weight and the camper for the weight and they will ask the driver for their manual to check the manufactures stated towing rate. If what they have loaded is over the limits they will make them unhook right there and the driver will be charged.

The law is part of the BC Motor Vechile Act. Would be really suprised if most other provinces &/or states do not have something along the same lines.

The little snip below is from: http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/vehicle...PDF/MV3230.pdf

"Check your owner’s manual to find your vehicle’s towing capability. If you tow a load that is too heavy for your vehicle, you create a potential safety risk for yourself and others on the road. Motor Vehicle Act Regulations in British Columbia prohibit the operation of vehicles that are unsafe or improperly loaded and exceed either the Gross Axle Rating (GAWR) or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). The Province is focusing on vehicles that are obviously overweight and pose a risk to the safety of other motorists. These regulations apply to vehicles manufactured after January 1, 2001 that have a GVWR of 5500 kg or less. "

Dave it looks like your good to go with the 37 :-)

Might be worth peoples time to take a closer look at their state or province Motor Vehicle Acts.[/QUOTE]


AND.... LAWS are one thing - safety is another. There is no law against my towing my flatdeck , loaded to its registered max weight, with my older, light-duty 1/2 ton 1980 truck. (which has no tow rating at all) Legal? Yes. Possible? Yes.

I did that very thing with that truck many times on VERY long cross country trips as far east as Ontario and as far south as Arizona without any trouble - BUT - in light of what I now consider to be prudent, I would not do it again!

Also - side note - some so-called 3/4 ton trucks are anything but. It is possible to have a 3/4 ton that is optioned out to where it is within a very few hundred pounds of its max GVW, while carrying nothing in it!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by floyd

The insurance industry doesn't set tow ratings in the states.

They dont in Canada either Floyd but I suspect as I think Dave was suggesting they would be the ones with a good reason to lobby for tow limit rates to be set. In the case of insurance companies they know that towing overloaded is not safe and will result in accidents and they being the ones that have to pay out they want fewer accidents.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

You make the eronious assumption that manufacturers ratings are codified throughout North America. While that may be true of Canada (I can't say)... it certainly is not the case in the U.S. for light trucks or cars.
Are you refering to national Canadian law, or just BC?
Would one pound over be enough for a draconian reaction ?
Do they go by actual weight, license plate, or the trailer's axle capacity?
I have met several Canadians who were towing fiberglass trailers with Streetrods, Hotrods, and custom built vehicles. How would they get a tow rating?

Floyd the police here in BC do set up road blocks - I am aware of them doing it pretty often on the Vancouver Island Highway where there are a lot of guys with truck/camper combos hailing boats. Yes they do sometimes have a portable scale with them or they may do it right by a highway scale and they do check the decals on the boat for weight and the camper for the weight and they will ask the driver for their manual to check the manufactures stated towing rate. If what they have loaded is over the limits they will make them unhook right there and the driver will be charged.

The law is part of the BC Motor Vechile Act. Would be really suprised if most other provinces &/or states do not have something along the same lines.

The little snip below is from: http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/vehicle...PDF/MV3230.pdf

"Check your owner’s manual to find your vehicle’s towing capability. If you tow a load that is too heavy for your vehicle, you create a potential safety risk for yourself and others on the road. Motor Vehicle Act Regulations in British Columbia prohibit the operation of vehicles that are unsafe or improperly loaded and exceed either the Gross Axle Rating (GAWR) or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). The Province is focusing on vehicles that are obviously overweight and pose a risk to the safety of other motorists. These regulations apply to vehicles manufactured after January 1, 2001 that have a GVWR of 5500 kg or less. "

Dave it looks like your good to go with the 37 :-)

Might be worth peoples time to take a closer look at their state or province Motor Vehicle Acts.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



Here in Illannoy the light trucks and cars are lumped together as "under 6000lbs". Above that line trucks recieve higher rated plates and rated capacities which can not be changed even by modification since the rating is on the title. I must respond to Carol H by saying that life is full of surprises, and thank you for the answer about the streetrods.
What the Province thinks about their threat, can only be a matter of speculation.
I tow my 13 deluxe Scamp with my Escape, but I do not tow it with my Subaru 360 (microcar).... If I were no more competent or responsible than my government I might give it a shot!
(It was made before January 1, 2001 afterall)

[BCDave]

OOPs _hit send B4 I typed anything that made sense!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by BCDave

Also - side note - some so-called 3/4 ton trucks are anything but. It is possible to have a 3/4 ton that is optioned out to where it is within a very few hundred pounds of its max GVW, while carrying nothing in it!

Yup and that is my understanding why the RCMP are during road blocks were I have seen them the most. They are focusing more on pick ups with campers on them - many are overloaded with the camper on them. Add to that the large number that are also hauling their 20' plus boats which more often than not do not have functioning brakes on the trailer due to the fact the trailers are in and out of saltwater and not mantained..... deadly combo.

[Daniel A.]

Floyd here in the province of BC we have the provincial controlled insurance company not private insurance.
They make money available to the police detachments for extra enforcement on there pet projects that would not normally be part of police budgets.
Sometimes that may mean extra roadblocks looking for drinking drivers, other times for seatbelt enforcement.
Then in the summer RV season some extra checks for RVs.

Clearly pickups with campers are an easy target as most are overloaded before they leave the driveway.

Common sense will likely suffice in most cases, but there will always be someone that is way over the limit.
Given our terrain of mountain driving with steep grades it should not be a surprise that enforcement may be higher given the risk.
I think that anyone driving flat areas would know that the stresses are different on the TV pulling.

[reeves99]

Life expectancy continues to climb in Canada, and men and women born in British Columbia can expect to live the longest, says a Statistics Canada report released Tuesday.

British Columbians' life expectancy from birth climbed to 81.4 years, according to statistics collected from 2006 through 2008.

B.C. was followed closely by Ontario (81.3 years) and Quebec (81 years). All three provinces came in above the national average.



Read more: British Columbians boast best life expectancy in Canada

....a direct result of our Motor Vehicle Act and enforcement thereof

[mcbrew]

The car in question is not rated to tow anything legally here in North Amercia.

What year/model are we talking about? Both of our Jettas carry a tow rating here. Without pulling out the manuals, I believe they are 1,200 pounds braked.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Daniel A.

Floyd here in the province of BC we have the provincial controlled insurance company not private insurance.
They make money available to the police detachments for extra enforcement on there pet projects that would not normally be part of police budgets.
Sometimes that may mean extra roadblocks looking for drinking drivers, other times for seatbelt enforcement.
Then in the summer RV season some extra checks for RVs.

Daniel is correct our basic insurance in BC must be purchasesd from ICBC which is a Crown Corp which I suspect if a thread was started on tht topic would be shut down fast! The fact they are the only game in town makes them a pretty big targert!

But it is only our basic insurance that must be purchased from ICBC for both the car and trailer (seperatly): $150,000 medical cost, $200,000 For damages clamed by other drivers & $1 million per person if at fault motorist is under insured. The rest such as Collison insurance to repair your own car or trailer if your at fault & the comprehensive insurance to cover you if the car or trailer is stolen or vandalized, storage insurance for the trailer can be purchsed from private insurance companies.

Having one big insurance company covering the costs of mistakes we make & as they are owned by the Province means they have a pretty big voice and intreast in getting the Province to bring in laws to try and reduce their pay outs.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Daniel is correct our basic insurance in BC must be purchasesd from ICBC which is a Crown Corp which I suspect if a thread was started on tht topic would be shut down fast! The fact they are the only game in town makes them a pretty big targert!

But it is only our basic insurance that must be purchased from ICBC for both the car and trailer (seperatly): $150,000 medical cost, $200,000 For damages clamed by other drivers & $1 million per person if at fault motorist is under insured. The rest such as Collison insurance to repair your own car or trailer if your at fault & the comprehensive insurance to cover you if the car or trailer is stolen or vandalized, storage insurance for the trailer can be purchsed from private insurance companies.

Having one big insurance company covering the costs of mistakes we make & as they are owned by the Province means they have a pretty big voice and intreast in getting the Province to bring in laws to try and reduce their pay outs.

Sounds like a recipe for tyranny!

[cpaharley2008]

If we have no more comments on the original Jetta towing issue, lets not drift off to insurance and government overthrows.

[honda03842]

British Columbians' life expectancy from birth climbed to 81.4 years, according to statistics collected from 2006 through 2008.

B.C. was followed closely by Ontario (81.3 years) and Quebec (81 years). All three provinces came in above the national average.

....a direct result of our Motor Vehicle Act and enforcement thereof

Life expectancy is climbing world wide at a rapid rate. Many states in the USA have similar rates, even with the burden of the death of too many young men and women on these rates of fighting two wars.

I also believe cars are being built to withstand crashes better and to even automatically prevent potential crashes.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

What year/model are we talking about? Both of our Jettas carry a tow rating here. Without pulling out the manuals, I believe they are 1,200 pounds braked.

Jesse, the tread here may intrest you:
Official towing capacity for 2011 Jetta TDI DSG? - Page 2 - TDIClub Forums

There are some intreasting quotes from an email exchange from May of this year with Volkswagon Canada:

The following was in response to a Jetta owner asking them why his dealer says the car is not rated to tow when the manual says it is:

"At this time the vehicle’s owner’s manual is not vehicle specific it is for all Volkswagen Jetta models including the European models."

"Thank you for contacting Volkswagen Canada Customer Care with your inquiry regarding the towing capacity of the New 2011 Volkswagen Jetta TDI. At this time this vehicle has not been given a towing capacity as it was not manufactured for towing use. The only vehicle that is currently manufactured by Volkswagen with a towing capacity is the Volkswagen Tiguan."

[honda03842]

At this time the vehicle’s owner’s manual is not vehicle specific it is for all Volkswagen Jetta models including the European models."

"Thank you for contacting Volkswagen Canada Customer Care with your inquiry regarding the towing capacity of the New 2011 Volkswagen Jetta TDI. At this time this vehicle has not been given a towing capacity as it was not manufactured for towing use. The only vehicle that is currently manufactured by Volkswagen with a towing capacity is the Volkswagen Tiguan."

The first paragraph seems to state that the Jetta manual is the same for all countries. The second paragraph seems to say that the Jetta has no tow rating. Virtually stating that European and North American have the same manuals and that the Jetta TDI does not have a towing capacity.

Not true. If you go to VW UK you will see that the VW Jetta TDI is rated for 1400 kg or about 3000 pounds. Web site follows:

New cars : Volkswagen UK

It's all very odd.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by reeves99

Life expectancy continues to climb in Canada, and men and women born in British Columbia can expect to live the longest, says a Statistics Canada report released Tuesday.

British Columbians' life expectancy from birth climbed to 81.4 years, according to statistics collected from 2006 through 2008.

B.C. was followed closely by Ontario (81.3 years) and Quebec (81 years). All three provinces came in above the national average.



Read more: British Columbians boast best life expectancy in Canada

....a direct result of our Motor Vehicle Act and enforcement thereof

Interesting article, perhaps it is the wholesome Canadian lifestye which is increasing the their life spans, giving them more time to enjoy their fiberglass campers. ,but I saw nothing in the article which indicated that the increase was ..."a direct result of our Motor Vehicle Act and enforcement thereof"

(HOWZAT?)

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by honda03842

At this time the vehicle’s owner’s manual is not vehicle specific it is for all Volkswagen Jetta models including the European models."

"Thank you for contacting Volkswagen Canada Customer Care with your inquiry regarding the towing capacity of the New 2011 Volkswagen Jetta TDI. At this time this vehicle has not been given a towing capacity as it was not manufactured for towing use. The only vehicle that is currently manufactured by Volkswagen with a towing capacity is the Volkswagen Tiguan."

The first paragraph seems to state that the Jetta manual is the same for all countries. The second paragraph seems to say that the Jetta has no tow rating. Virtually stating that European and North American have the same manuals and that the Jetta TDI does not have a towing capacity.

Not true. If you go to VW UK you will see that the VW Jetta TDI is rated for 1400 kg or about 3000 pounds. Web site follows:

New cars : Volkswagen UK

It's all very odd.

Yup its confusing. What they are actually trying to say is the VW Jetta TDI in Europe does have a tow rating thus the reason the UK site says it does but the Jetta does not have a tow rating in NA.

If you read the whole discussion thread link posted what Volkswagon Canada is saying is the Jetta is not rated to tow in Canada and the reason there are towing ratings and instructions in the manual is due to the fact the manual is printed to cover all Jetta's regardless of country. They say the tow ratings and instructions in the manual are for Jetta's in Europe only.

Volkswagon owners apparently need to read the real fine print in their manuals in regards to where they live and what relates or does not relate to the car they own in the country they live.