Leading Arm or Trailing Arm - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-20-2016, 07:24 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Bill Nolen's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Trailer: Had Scamp 13'.
Oklahoma
Posts: 629
Registry
Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me.

This morning I thought that since I was waiting for a slack period to take my scamp for it's new axle, I'd check it one more time. I guess I was hoping that the axle would heal itself overnight!

Anyway, with a heavy load being applied up and down on the rear bumper I tried to measure the movement of the axle arm. Sadly, the arm didn't move at all! All movement was the result of the tires flexing.

While under the trailer I took some photos. One showing the amount the arm is upward. The wires shown are for the brakes...which I didn't know I had for some time. i also tried to find a model or SN on the axle tube, but without any luck.

Click image for larger version

Name:	<a title=Scamp old axle arm left side.jpg Views: 13 Size: 260.6 KB ID: 91890" style="margin: 2px" />

This photo shows the mounting bracket welded to the frame. Sure ugly with 39 years of crud on the undercarriage!

Click image for larger version

Name:	<a title=Scamp axle mounting left.jpg Views: 14 Size: 258.5 KB ID: 91899" style="margin: 2px" />

There is no doubt that I will have the trailer co. measure and order the correct axle for me. I'd like to change from a leading arm axle to a trailing arm axle, but will go with whatever the trailer people say.

Bill
Bill Nolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 07:56 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
When I installed my flexiride I chose it so that I could change the ride height to correct for adding larger 14" tires. I doubt that you will need them for a 13' trailer, however.
I believe that if you add brakes only 5 lug hubs are available.
I bought tires and wheels for around $100 each (three).
The tires are Kenda Loadstar or load master of some such Chinese tires from Pep Boys auto.
I like the hubs on the FLexiride since they are forged or cast steel and not built up and have replaceable axles and of course the arms are also replaceable and repositionable.
To clear the wheel wells I had to take out the flat topped fiberglass originals and installed steel wheel wells from Tractor supply modified to fit.
redbarron55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 09:24 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
My rememberer is probably fading at this point... but.. I kinda remember the reason for changing from a leading arm to a trailing arm and to do with bumps and pot holes.


A leading arm JAMBed into a pot hole and a leading arm fell into the hole and moved up as the axle moved along. A leading arm axle was less stress on the axle and frame.


So, ask yourself WHY the manufacturer made the change?
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 11:49 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
David B.'s Avatar
 
Name: David
Trailer: Former 13’Scamp, now Snoozy
Arizona
Posts: 2,316
Registry
When I replaced with the Flexiride, I was able to order it WITHOUT new hubs, and reused my 4 lug hubs/brakes since the brakes and bearings were nearly new, and fit the spindles on the Flexiride. Saved money on axle cost and was able to keep using our wheels/tires and spare.
Dave & Paula
David B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2016, 09:31 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
Bill Nolen's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Trailer: Had Scamp 13'.
Oklahoma
Posts: 629
Registry
Late yesterday i received a reply from Dexter answering my question if it was OK to use a Dexter trailing arm axle as a leading arm axle.

The reply:

"Mr. Nolen,

The Torflex axle is designed to be trailing arm axle not a leading arm axle. We can't recommend that it be used as a leading arm axle.


Thanks

Jim Miller / Dexter Axle"

However, I understand that there are several such instalations that are working OK. Maybe just a shorter life depending on how many deep potholes one falls into?

I'm going to ask the horse trailer mfg. company if they believe a trailing arm axle could be "safely" mounted on my Scamp's frame under the "dance floor". Other than raising the height/ground clearance by a inch or two the reinforcement tubing shown forward of the axle should be strong enough I'd think.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Scamp old axle mounting 1.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	244.6 KB
ID:	91930

Restoring a old trailer sure can get complicated!

Bill
Bill Nolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2016, 10:07 AM   #26
Junior Member
 
Name: Dustin
Trailer: In The Market
Colorado
Posts: 4
Back to the original post. I have a leading arm in the up position. Can you mount a trailing arm with 22.5 deg down under the "dance floor" (ie mount the axle forward of its existing location )? Seems like that would raise the trailer quite a bit, too. Thanks!
dlanci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2016, 11:39 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Just for clarity… I thought "dance floor" usually referred to the raised section under the rear dinette, no?

If so, a trailing arm axle would not be mounted under the dance floor, but under the center drop-floor, which is why it requires an up-angle to maintain the original ride height.

Am I misunderstanding the terminology here? I'm not into the nightclub scene, so I'm not sure whether a dance floor is usually lower or higher than the seating area…
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2016, 12:43 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
If you mount an axle in leading arm it must be positions so that the arm is "up".
If it is down when you hit that pot hole it may not ride up over the lip and that would be bad.
The trailing arm the wheel will ride up and over the lip with less shock passes on the the trailer and wheel and hub.
If you want the arms leading then up it is.
redbarron55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2016, 12:59 PM   #29
Moderator
 
Name: RogerDat
Trailer: 2010 Scamp 16
Michigan
Posts: 3,744
You can and should get leading arm with some down angle, especially with brakes. I would have to dig into an old post but Al-Ko said they would only put brakes on a leading arm if it had X amount of down angle or more.


I always thought the dance floor was the raised part. To do trailing you have to move the axle mount point forward. On why it was changed I have no idea but which way did/does Airstream mount there torsion axles?


One other thing to consider if moving axle and that is torsion axle tube is structural. It is a frame cross member. I don't know how critical it is to the structural integrity of the frame but adding strength by becoming part of the frame is one of the advantages of a torsion axle.
RogerDat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2016, 01:10 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerDat View Post
On why it was changed I have no idea but which way did/does Airstream mount there torsion axles?
According to this article, they use a trailing arm set-up.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2016, 01:58 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Bill Nolen's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Trailer: Had Scamp 13'.
Oklahoma
Posts: 629
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
Just for clarity… I thought "dance floor" usually referred to the raised section under the rear dinette, no?

If so, a trailing arm axle would not be mounted under the dance floor, but under the center drop-floor, which is why it requires an up-angle to maintain the original ride height.

Am I misunderstanding the terminology here? I'm not into the nightclub scene, so I'm not sure whether a dance floor is usually lower or higher than the seating area…
Ha! Jon, most likely you are right. I just thought the only place wide enough , in my 13'Scamp, for me to do one of my great square-dance moves would be in the center drop down near the sink!

However, it's been some 20 years since I tried such moves, so maybe it would be better to find a real dance floor!

Today the trailer mfg. co told me to bring the Scamp in on Monday, and they will inspect it and tell me what options I have. Sadly costs will play a role in what I have done.

Bill
Bill Nolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2016, 02:04 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Bill Nolen's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Trailer: Had Scamp 13'.
Oklahoma
Posts: 629
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
If you mount an axle in leading arm it must be positions so that the arm is "up".
If it is down when you hit that pot hole it may not ride up over the lip and that would be bad.
The trailing arm the wheel will ride up and over the lip with less shock passes on the the trailer and wheel and hub.
If you want the arms leading then up it is.
I would like having a trailing arm axle installed.

I should find out the first of next week if this is possible...and whether or not I can afford the cost!

Bill
Bill Nolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2016, 02:11 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
Bill Nolen's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Trailer: Had Scamp 13'.
Oklahoma
Posts: 629
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerDat View Post
You can and should get leading arm with some down angle, especially with brakes. I would have to dig into an old post but Al-Ko said they would only put brakes on a leading arm if it had X amount of down angle or more.


I always thought the dance floor was the raised part. To do trailing you have to move the axle mount point forward. On why it was changed I have no idea but which way did/does Airstream mount there torsion axles?


One other thing to consider if moving axle and that is torsion axle tube is structural. It is a frame cross member. I don't know how critical it is to the structural integrity of the frame but adding strength by becoming part of the frame is one of the advantages of a torsion axle.
Roger. I have thought that maybe the trailer co would just cut off the arms and leave the old axle tube attached to the frame...for the additional strength, if it is possible for them to installing a trailing arm axle.

Should know for sure Monday or Tuesday. Thanks for all your help.

Bill
Bill Nolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 09:23 AM   #34
Moderator
 
Name: RogerDat
Trailer: 2010 Scamp 16
Michigan
Posts: 3,744
If your axle brackets are welded on through holes in the top then cutting the arms off is about the only easy way to grind off those welds anyway. So at that point you essentially have the axle tube as a frame piece only.


The bracket is sort of a channel with the bottom of the "U" against the frame and open side down. Mine had a couple of holes in the bottom of that channel, sort of like bolt holes that would allow bolting to a frame, welds had been run in them and getting a grinder up into the inside of that bracket to grind them off was difficult. However since they did not want to destroy my old axle in case the new one did not fit they decided not to cut off the arms for easy access to the bracket.


I'm sure they can install a trailing arm, a lot of folks have done exactly that. For a good trailer fabricator adding some attachment points should not be too hard. Thing is I think old and odd ball jobs make them nervous. Too easy to have something go wrong and make the job a losing proposition or big headache for them.


Knew Airstream used torsion axle did not know which way they ran the arms, thanks for that article Jon. Seems the Scamps work as leading arm fine, brakes work well so IDK maybe an engineer needed to justify his paycheck by changing something? Or maybe it is related to some other innovation someplace in the manufacturing process.
RogerDat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 11:28 AM   #35
Senior Member
 
Bill Nolen's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Trailer: Had Scamp 13'.
Oklahoma
Posts: 629
Registry
just a update on my axle replacement project.

I took my 1978 Scamp 13 to a LARGE horse trailer manifacturing plant this morning. When I say large...I mean really large! The facility must cover 20 acres, with the main building at least 4 or 5 acres in size

I'm amazed that the gaard at the gate would even let me tow my little trailer on the grounds. Sure looked tiny, and somewhat shabby parked next to those $100.000 trailers! Horse trailers are big business!

I received a phone call a few minutes ago, and the service manager asked why I thought I needed a new axle? After, I explained my limited bouncing tests, he told me that he didn't believe the axle was defective, but would get some heavy guys and check it again!

Hey, wouldn't that be great if the axle was OK? Stay tuned for the next report!

Bill
Bill Nolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 12:14 PM   #36
Moderator
 
Name: RogerDat
Trailer: 2010 Scamp 16
Michigan
Posts: 3,744
Good luck that would be good news if the axle is ok.


The square axle shaft forms a diamond with two points horizontal to the frame when it was originally installed in the arm. Looks like this <> A worn or shot axle will no longer be aligned like that, either will have been pushed up or sagged down when inspected with wheel off.


It should take a pry bar to move the axle arm against the torsion rubbers with the wheel off and the trailer on stands. Another check is can you get a fist (about 3 inches) above the tire between tire and wheel well.


Could just be a case of needing to eat more cheese cake or drink more beer in order to have the weight to make the trailer bounce. That would be swell, and they can check out the frame for you while they are at it.
RogerDat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 11:24 AM   #37
Senior Member
 
Bill Nolen's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Trailer: Had Scamp 13'.
Oklahoma
Posts: 629
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerDat View Post
Good luck that would be good news if the axle is ok......
Could just be a case of needing to eat more cheese cake or drink more beer in order to have the weight to make the trailer bounce. That would be swell, and they can check out the frame for you while they are at it.
Roger, I'm afraid if I gain any more weight. i won't be able to fit through the Scamp's door!

I learned this morning that it will be next week before the trailer shop might be able to work on my trailer! They have back orders on horse trailers, and my trailer is at the bottom of the list. Which I understood would be the case, when I took the Scamp to them.

But, I'm so bad about waiting!

Bill
Bill Nolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 05:02 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
Bill Nolen's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Trailer: Had Scamp 13'.
Oklahoma
Posts: 629
Registry
Good News & Bad News!

First the Good News.

Late yesterday afternoon my friend, at the trailer shop, was able to have the axle on my 1978 Scamp 13 tested, and it was determined that it was working just fine! He reassured me that the rubber in the axle tube had not deteriorated. Maybe some PO had the original axle replaced?

He recommended that I not replace the axle, but have metal blocks installed to raise the trailer frame & body two-inches. I'm considering doing that, but haven't decided yet.

As much as I like the idea of a new axle, it does seem foolish to spend money to replace the axle, when advised to do otherwise, by a friend who has years of trailer experience, and is someone I trust.

The Bad News:

Because of their back log building in new horse trailers, they might not be able to work on my trailer for a couple of weeks. Sob!

Actually that's OK, because I Kept the lower kitchen cabinet in my work shop, and can work on the drawers for it. Besides, it's still cold here in OKC!

Bill
Bill Nolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 06:26 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 5,155
So they are talking about basically planning to do the same thing that THIS kit does??? If so, note the instructions on that page.. it will give you an idea of what is involved to do it.
gordon2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 07:27 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Bill Nolen's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Trailer: Had Scamp 13'.
Oklahoma
Posts: 629
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post
So they are talking about basically planning to do the same thing that THIS kit does??? If so, note the instructions on that page.. it will give you an idea of what is involved to do it.
Gordon, Thank you! I really didn't discuss it in detail, however, my friend did say they would install two-inch "blocks", so i would guess it would be similar, except on my Scamp the blocks and axle would be welded in place, and not bolted..

The cost of two pieces of 2" sq steel tubing, to be welded, would cost a great deal less than one Casita lift kit! Maybe $5.00.

The Casita lift instructions did, i noted, state if welding was required, it wouldn't be worth the cost...or something like that.

I would guess the time for installing the blocks, would take about the same as installing a new axle.

Scamp Co. installs a new axle in about two-hours, so I have read. Previously my friend had told me it would take from two to three hours to install a new axle at their plant.

Bill
Bill Nolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scamp Axle - Leading vs Trailing RogerDat Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 70 07-01-2014 11:18 AM
Replacing an Axle - leading arm to trailing arm Roy in TO Modifications, Alterations and Updates 38 11-21-2010 02:00 AM
Replacing leading arm axles Andrew Gibbens Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 19 07-19-2008 06:48 PM
New Axle -- Leading or Trailing Arm? CliveAlive Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 3 01-26-2008 01:12 AM
New Axle -- Leading or Trailing Arm? CliveAlive General Chat 0 01-01-1970 12:00 AM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.