Leading Arm or Trailing Arm

[Bill Nolen]

I know this has been discussed before, but I have been unable to find the information I seek.

Mu 1978 Scamp 13 has the original leading arm axle. I had planned to take the trailer and have the axle replaced this week, but the company is overloaded with work at this time.

I understand that some owners of old Scamps, etc, have had their leading arm axle's replaced with trailing arm axles, with the axle moved forward and attached under the "dance floor" area.

I also understand that owners have also just had the trailing arm axles turned around so they became leading arm axles, and attached in the original mounting position at the rear of the "dance floor".

My question(s) is what problems, if any, resulted in attaching the axle tube to the frame under the 'dance floor", and what problems resulted in turning a trailing arm axle around and attaching it the orignal leading arm position?

Whew! That's quite a mouthful!

All information and comments will be appreciated!

Bill

[Eddie Longest]

Besides the welding issues The foreward facing replacement axles are 22.5 deg down. I think the rear facing axle on the new Scamps are 22.5 deg up. But I have replaced the rear facing with 0 deg. axles and recommend people do this with trailers that have grey water tanks. You end up raising the hitch and door threshold about 2".
Eddie

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Eddie Longest

Besides the welding issues The foreward facing replacement axles are 22.5 deg down. I think the rear facing axle on the new Scamps are 22.5 deg up. But I have replaced the rear facing with 0 deg. axles and recommend people do this with trailers that have grey water tanks. You end up raising the hitch and door threshold about 2".
Eddie

Thanks Eddie for the information. I have been told that all Dexter torsion axles are now made as rear facing arm axles. but can be turned around. My old Scamp trailer doesn't have any gray water or any water tanks installed. Do you think a 22.5 deg down axle would be the right one for my trailer if the axle is installed in the original position?

Thanks again,

Bill

[floyd]

Another point...
your original axle was 1200# capacity late models are 2200# capacity.

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by floyd

Another point...
your original axle was 1200# capacity late models are 2200# capacity.

And here I've been doing all I can to make the trailer lighter!

Am i right to assume the 2200 # axle would be somewhat larger in cross section?

Thanks Floyd,

Bill

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

And here I've been doing all I can to make the trailer lighter!

Am i right to assume the 2200 # axle would be somewhat larger in cross section?

Thanks Floyd,

Bill

I don't know for sure but I doubt it would be much different since the rubber length is the main determiner for capacity, with ranges for each size axle beam. I do think that your original axle spindle was a straight 1" and the newer ones are 1-1/16".
Most new axles are 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern too, instead of the 4 lug which you are likely to have now.

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by floyd

I don't know for sure but I doubt it would be much different the rubber length is the main determiner for capacity, with ranges for each size axle beam. I do know that your original axle spindle was a straight 1" and the newer ones are 1-1/16".

Thanks again Floyd!

Bill

[BillE]

I want to know if the new Lippert axles can be adjusted to a "0" degree. If not has anyone put a lift on a 13ft?

[Eddie Longest]

The #9 Dexter Torflex can be ordered a 1.1K-2.2K lbs. rating but the default weight is usually 2K. I'm pretty sure Scamp installed a 2K #9 on my 82 S-13. Around 2014 Scamp started installing Lippert axles on S-16's & S-19's. I don't know what they are installing on the S-13's now. I can't find much info on Lippert axles, I think they (Lippert) wants to mostly deal with OEM's. I have found Redneck and Dexter to be very helpful with technical info. and advice on all their products.
Eddie

[Eddie Longest]

BillE
If you have a side bolted on Dexter #9, Dexter sells lift blocks for that axle but it does not give you any extra beam ground clearance. I only lifts the trailer.
Eddie
http://www.dexteraxle.com/inc/sdetail/45177/50968

[BillE]

Eddie


Now you have me wondering...I need to go check the paperwork that came with the trailer.

[Eddie Longest]

Scamp started using the bolt on axle brackets on the S-16&19 in 2010. I don't know if they started or used the bolt on brackets on S-13's.


There was a post about a year ago where someone wanted to use Orbital Machine's lift blocks made for Dexter #10 axles on a Scamp that had a Lippert axle and there were issues. This brought to light that Scamp was no longer using ALKO or Dexter axles. At this point I don't know if a Lippert Axle will bolt up to the Alko/Dexter brackets.
Eddie
Found the post and it was for a S-13.
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ype-70430.html

[Eddie Longest]

BillE
Looks like Orbital may be able to provide you with a Lippert 2.2K lift bracket. All the Orbital Machine products I have seen have been first class.
Eddie

[David B.]

I had a trailer builder change out our worn out 13' Scamp's leading arm axle to a trailing arm Flexiride adjustable (splined axle with removable splined arms) axle. With this set up I was able to keep the trailer low to get it through the 7' garage door (combined with golf cart wheels) by having an upward deflection, and at zero degrees for road use, and downward deflection for off road use. The arms are shorter than the original arms Scamp used, so this has to be figured into the equation when getting the wheels centered in the wheel well openings.
Best of luck with your project.
Dave & Paula

[redbarron55]

I had Flexiride make my axle for 3000 lbs on the 3500 unit. You can adjust the angle to what you want with it,
They have two models of interest to us and they are approximately 2500 or 3500 I could be wrong on the ranges, but you would want the lighter one for your trailer.
The arm length is a little shorter than the Dexter or ALKO.
Your trailer probably has the ALKO and there should be a tag on it.
on the cross beam. Get the numbers off it and call ALKO and they can tell you what the specifications are.
Fleyiride can make you an axle with whatever spacing you want and with a bracket that can be welded to the trailer and then the axle bolted up.
Be sure you specify on what ever axle you buy exactly what you want, because this is what you will get.
I assumed that the frame was 48" outside to outside, but when I cut off the old one it was really 48 1/4" and I had to do some quick mods.

[RogerDat]

They can de-tune to pretty much the load capacity you wish. I do think there is a slight difference in the axle arc on the heavier axles. Axle is not always straight tube, sometimes will have a bow in it so that with a load on it the tires have the correct camber angle.


The axle makers can make the bracket you want and the angle you want at the load capacity you need for whatever you want but as pointed out by JD you send them dimensions and the axle built to those dimensions is yours, no refunds if they make it to your measurements. This is one reason you need to do it carefully or go to a good reputable shop.


I would go with the more modern 5 bolt pattern and order with brakes. You can get the older 4 bolt and not have to replace your rims but 4 bolt brake hubs are not a common part, the 5 bolt hubs are. I LOVE my trailer brakes. Yes it is a little trailer that does not have to have brakes but man alive it is nice to be able to stop for a yellow light rather than trying to make it through a Hail Mary and the intersection before someone pulls out.

[Jon in AZ]

The biggest difficulty with upgrading to 5-lug wheels from 4-lug is the spare tire mounting bolts have to be redone. There are some old threads on ways to do it.

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by David B.

I had a trailer builder change out our worn out 13' Scamp's leading arm axle to a trailing arm Flexiride adjustable (splined axle with removable splined arms) axle. With this set up I was able to keep the trailer low to get it through the 7' garage door (combined with golf cart wheels) by having an upward deflection, and at zero degrees for road use, and downward deflection for off road use. The arms are shorter than the original arms Scamp used, so this has to be figured into the equation when getting the wheels centered in the wheel well openings.
Best of luck with your project.
Dave & Paula

Thanks Dave & Paula!

That sounds interesting. Did the builder install two half axle stubs or or a full length axle? Where on the frame did the trailer builder attach the axle. Was it close to the original position or elsewhere.

I have no reason to change the deflection of the axle arm at this time, but it would be nice to be able to do so.

Do you know the model number of your new axle?

Thanks,

Bill

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

The biggest difficulty with upgrading to 5-lug wheels from 4-lug is the spare tire mounting bolts have to be redone. There are some old threads on ways to do it.

I stayed with the 4 bolt for this very reason (and not wanting to purchase 3 new rims) Afterwards realized the mounting of spare was an easy fix for a trailer shop that welds.

They would just need to make an adapter with 4 bolt holes at the back and the five bolts coming out the front. Then mount a vertical support off of the rear bumper to help support it. Adapter is held in place by old 4 bolts and supported by the leg down to the bumper. Probably be stronger than original.

Gain is wider assortment of 5 bolt rims to choose from (for style) and pretty much every trailer repair shop would have your brake parts, especially the hubs. Have a bearing go and sustain damage to the hub and you will be in a bad spot unless you carry your own spare hub. They are small but still... who wants to haul around a $50 spare piece of cast iron?

Also alluded to but not emphatically was the down angle of axle raises trailer but does not buy much ground clearance until you add larger wheels and then only 1/2 of the additional wheel diameter. Going from 13 inch to 15 inch wheels is only raising the axle the wheel is attached to by ~1 inch. Taller profile tires can add a bit to that. BUT to get that height the axle has to angle down enough to create clearance above the larger tire so the step up into the camper grows much more than that inch or two.

It is easy to find original down angle and from that original height. The square shaft that the axle arm is welded to was originally a diamond shape <> with the horizontal points level. If re-oriented that way with the tire off one can then establish the original wheel height, the rest is just basic addition. Arm should pry down into position fairly easily if the rubber torsion is worn out. Mine could be moved with a big screw driver after 35 years.

I went for original height when axle was replaced but then I don't want to have a big step up into the camper.

[David B.]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

Thanks Dave & Paula!

That sounds interesting. Did the builder install two half axle stubs or or a full length axle? Where on the frame did the trailer builder attach the axle. Was it close to the original position or elsewhere.

I have no reason to change the deflection of the axle arm at this time, but it would be nice to be able to do so.

Do you know the model number of your new axle?

Thanks,

Bill

Bill, the builder installed a full length trailing arm axle. He added square tubing to the existing "cracked" frame after welding up the cracks, then added the axle. I gave him the measurements that I had gleaned off FGRV forum that someone had taken a lot of time detailing all measurements. He didn't listen, and only went off the original leading arm configuration axle that he took off. It ended up that the tires rubbed through the inner fender on one side, so they had to build another axle and replace the 1st one they made (at their expense), so my recommendation would be to leave the measurements up to them to build it so they will be the ones paying for any changes needed if something doesn't work out. Best of luck with your axle replacement.
Dave & Paula