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Old 08-04-2014, 10:19 PM   #21
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There were 2 reasons I changed the axle in my Lil Bigfoot.
I went up an approach to a driveway and the back of the trailer dragged.
The second reason was when I hit a pebble on the highway everything in the trailer ended up on the floor.
With a 3500 pound axle you may have the same problem.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry J View Post
There were 2 reasons I changed the axle in my Lil Bigfoot.
I went up an approach to a driveway and the back of the trailer dragged.
The second reason was when I hit a pebble on the highway everything in the trailer ended up on the floor.
With a 3500 pound axle you may have the same problem.
the current axle already bottoms out over the smallest bump, including our low curved driveway.It also throws things around when in tow. How would the 3500lb axle do same? Wouldn't a new axle fix those problems? I really feel like a dumb girl right now. A dumb girl who's being taken advantage of
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:43 AM   #23
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The higher the axle rating under a lighter trailer won't compress to absorb the bumps sence it needs the right weight to make it work properly. It will end up being like a worn out axle.....only the sidewalls of the tires are taking the compression like shocks with the torsion part not really moving. Example, my utility trailers have spring axles not torsion. Empty they are not on the ground all the time but work like their supposed to when loaded down. They are matched up to the work load of the trailer. This is the same info as Perry just told you. A proper rated axle with a bit more down angle will give you the lift for clearance but not tear it apart from bouncing down the road. No one on this site is pulling your leg, just giving you a few thousand years of expirience between us all
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:39 AM   #24
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The higher the axle rating under a lighter trailer won't compress to absorb the bumps sence it needs the right weight to make it work properly. It will end up being like a worn out axle.....only the sidewalls of the tires are taking the compression like shocks with the torsion part not really moving. Example, my utility trailers have spring axles not torsion. Empty they are not on the ground all the time but work like their supposed to when loaded down. They are matched up to the work load of the trailer. This is the same info as Perry just told you. A proper rated axle with a bit more down angle will give you the lift for clearance but not teat it apart from bouncing down the road. No one on this site is pulling your leg, just giving you a few thousand years of expirience between us all

Just to clarify my saying I feel taken advantage of was in regards to the trailer shop people not anyone here. I feel you guys are the only ones really with my best interest.

So being stuck with a 3500lb axle is going to wreck my trailer? I am so confused. Why would he be so negligent in his order?


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Old 08-05-2014, 01:56 AM   #25
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Well Dena, seems anyone responding to you is saying a 2500lb axle. I have no idea of your trailers weight is but at 13' I wouldn't put anything more under it. The weight rating is one thing but they all can be configured at the factory with a down angle to give you whatever clearance you want. So yea, IMHO you may have a problem.
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:12 AM   #26
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After rereading this thread, it is possible that people are getting confused.
The #9 Torflex is rated for 1000-2200 LBS
The #10 is for 2300-4000 LBS (I think it used to be 3500 LBS)

It is possible that a #10 is being referred to as a 3500 lb axle, yet it could be rubbered for 2500 LBS
For Dena that is new to this, the different axles are numbered to indicate load capacity ranges. Dexter then further sets the load capacity by installing different lengths of rubber inside the axle. More rubber = more capacity.

When designing my axle I spoke with one of the engineers at Dexter. He said our loads don't differ much from trip to trip as compared to a utility trailer that travels from empty to fully loaded. He indicated that I should be looking at what my trailer weighs loaded for camping and add a couple of hundred pounds as a margin for optimal ride. Too light a rating and you are overworking the axle for what it was designed for, too heavy and you lose the benefits of the spring and shock effect.

This is where Frederick's thread comes in real handy:
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html

The 7" electric brakes have a capacity of up to 2200 LBS, you aint goin to find them on a 2500 lb axle.
http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/6149609/f/...nformation.pdf
http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/6149609/f/...nch_Brakes.pdf
http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/6149609/f/...nch_Brakes.pdf
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:47 PM   #27
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Lil Bigfoot 13' needs new axle

I asked this

...Why did you decide on the 3500lb instead of the 2500lb. The concern is The higher axle rating under a lighter trailer won't compress to absorb the bumps as it needs the right weight to make it work properly...

His reply

"The 3500lb axle won't fail. If the ride is too stiff you can lower the air pressure in your tires. All will be fine. I have done this countless times."

That's it.

And just to clarify, this is not a small unknown company and the guy I am dealing with is the Foreman/manager so one would expect him to know what he is talking about which is why I am losing my marbles here.

I am unsure what my options are now. Being as the axle is ordered am I not stuck with it now. I have not paid for it but he does have written email asking me to order it( although he wouldn't specifically give me the type of axle just said it needed axle and was going to order) Don't want to be stuck with something damaging for my trailer but also don't want to be sued.

What should I say/ask him specifically tomorrow? His response above was literally ALL he replied to me and I have yet to reply back because in all honesty I was a little pissed at feeling brushed off. I suppose he is probably a little pissed at some dumb girl questioning his choices. So what specifically should I ask him so he has to answer to find out all the unknowns you guys are talking about ???


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Old 08-06-2014, 08:20 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denabear View Post
His reply

"The 3500lb axle won't fail. If the ride is too stiff you can lower the air pressure in your tires. All will be fine. I have done this countless times."
...
What should I say/ask him specifically tomorrow?
Ask him to explain how lowering the tire pressure won't cause other problems, such as excessive tire heat, premature failure and blowouts. Not to mention decreased stability on a trailer that has already had it's center of gravity raised.




Run, don't walk away from this. Going to court will take months if not years. I can hear it now, Yes your honour I backed out before the litigant was able to make any changes to my trailer, feeling that his suggestions were unsafe.
  1. His modifications would have raised the trailer making it much higher than originally designed and altering the center of gravity affecting the trailers stability.
  2. Installing a torsion axle that was 40% overrated for the weight of my trailer would have greatly diminshed the shock absorbing features of the axle, potentially causing damage to the trailer and/or its contents.
  3. I felt that the litigants suggestion of lowering the tire pressure to compensate for an axle that was too stiff was an unsafe practice. Low tire pressure could lead to tire failure and could further alter the stability of a trailer that had it's center of gravity altered by raising it too much. In other words, I felt the work they were proposing would have made my trailer unsafe.
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Old 08-06-2014, 12:02 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denabear View Post
the current axle already bottoms out over the smallest bump, including our low curved driveway.It also throws things around when in tow. How would the 3500lb axle do same? Wouldn't a new axle fix those problems? I really feel like a dumb girl right now. A dumb girl who's being taken advantage of
You're not dumb, your just into a situation you have no knowledge.
The axle also acts as a shock absorber.
A 3500 pound axle is designed for a much heavier trailer.
Your trailer will set higher but the stiffness of the 3500 pound axle will give your trailer a very stiff ride and you may end up with everything on the floor after spending $800.00.

John
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Old 08-06-2014, 12:13 PM   #30
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I asked what Roy suggested and this is the reply. It is a much more detailed reply,

"as for your axle, the axle on your trailer is rated at 2500 lbs from the manufacture but is in all actuality a 3500 lb axle that is down rated to accommodate the manufacturer's specs and avoid having to run elec brakes on the trailer to keep the initial cost low. The regulations change from state to state and province to province in regards to what sizes of trailers require electric brakes. If it was a smaller axle it wouldn't be rated anymore than 2200lbs because the 2200lb axles have a smaller axle beam.

As for the air pressure in the tires, YES running TOO low pressure will cause all of what you were told. But tires have a have a maximum PSI rating to never exceed but there is a variable where you can lower the pressure according to load. For example, you tires may have a max PSI rating of 50 PSI but you can safely run them at 28 psi. That is the good thing about radial tires.

As for raising the trailer, there really isn't anything I can do about that without major modifications to the frame which would shoot the cost sky high. We would have to cut a section out of the frame in order to recess the axle up inside the frame and that's would weaken the frame which in my opinion is bad.

I feel that what I am suggesting is the best and most economical way to go. If you are having second thoughts about this and wish to hold off or take the trailer somewhere else, that's up to you and completely fine with me either way. After all it is your trailer and your money.

I hope this answers your questions"

So, my fellow know much more than me's, does that make sense???


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Old 08-06-2014, 04:45 PM   #31
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RUN
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Old 08-06-2014, 04:56 PM   #32
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Lil Bigfoot 13' needs new axle

Ok. Maybe this is what I should have done originally lol,

What do I need to be asking/telling the next potential axle fixer uppers lol? What is it that I actually am wanting?? I mean from my point I view I want my trailer to not bottom out over tiny curb bumps an to be in perfect working order. Brakes?? Our two vehicle isn't mine. How can I tell if it is brake ready?? Is that the little trailer button on the steering wheel?? Anyway if I am replacing anyways should brakes be the safest best method? If this was your trailer and you were not capable of doing the work yourself what would you pay someone to do to it to make it the best.


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Old 08-06-2014, 06:05 PM   #33
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Dena,
That video I included may help you gain a clearer picture of what all this stuff is about.

The stuff shop said about the axle being "downrated" is the reduced rubber so that part is good. He is saying heavier metal axle tube with less rubber inside to provide a softer suspension. Softer suspension = less slamming from road bumps.

Do not run your tires at 28 psi, soft tires run hotter than firm tires, heat degrades tires literally from the inside out. Can have good tread and tire just fails.

You should be closer to max than min air pressure especially if doing 55 - 60 mph for several hours traveling. A little under max is not a big issue but 28 psi tire pressure is part of the reason those Ford Explores would have a "comfortable" ride right up to when a tire blew and the vehicle rolled over because it sat high. Dealer told people to go with a lower pressure for a better ride. Trailer tires have a weight rating based on the tire pressure, reduce the pressure and you reduce the weight rating. Talk to a tire store to get better information.

Your trailer is going to sit higher than it did originally, how much depends on the down angle of the axle. Tire is mounted to an arm, the arm comes off of the axle tube that runs across the trailer. That arm can be level (0 down angle) or angled up by between 10 and 45 degrees (up angle) or angled down (down angle) by the same range of 10 - 45 degrees. Worth asking what angle the torsion arm was ordered at. I don't recall exactly so maybe someone will chime in who does but I think 5 degrees equaled about a half inch of height. So he may have ordered axle at a different angle than the original to compensate for some of that additional height from the bracket.

Here is a post that has a picture of the axle (you can see the arm angles down relative to the bracket by about 10 degrees)
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...tml#post423069

This Dexter Axle video is even better but when they show the axle and tire moving at about 1 minute into the video you can see the arm is above the bracket (10 degree up angle)



If it makes you feel better a lot of people do increase the height when they replace the axle in order to be able to handle some rougher back country roads. You might need to get a little step to put outside your door to step up an extra 6 or 8 inches.

I do not know the particulars of your trailer but I do recall a long thread on replacing an axle (with pictures) where yes they cut the frame and then added some reinforcement to compensate. However that person was doing the work with a friend, if the frame broke it was all his own fault, a shop might well be reluctant to take that chance with a customers trailer. Paying a shop for that sort of custom work would add to the cost.

Hopefully they at least ordered the axle with the plate that allows one to add brakes later if desired. Those plates are not expensive when ordered as part of the axle, cost more to add later. If he did not order with brake plates it would be worth asking him to contact Dexter and see if the order can be modified, depending on the additional cost and your willingness to pay it. Ordered does not equal built, Dexter builds axles to order so there may be time to get this option added.

I am not impressed with the person you are dealing with at this shop. It can be a bit of a challenge to provide good advice and information so that a novice customer is making an informed decision. But hey that is part of the job, I did not go to med school so I expect my doctor to explain the condition and options so I can make an informed decision. People do that same explaining and advising on options for repairs or modifications to FGRV's all the time here on the forum.

Bottom line don't panic, but do not take this shop managers word as gospel either. And yes a lot of the experienced members will be annoyed at this person on your behalf and will tell you why but in the end I think even if not the optimal solution experienced person would have gone for it will probably be satisfactory.... as long as you don't run 50 psi tires at that stupidly low air pressure!
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:16 PM   #34
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Brake controller can be added to most any vehicle, no it's not the little button on the steering wheel. Some vehicles come with a pre-wired plug so the brake controller can just be plugged in, typical in vehicles that come with a tow package such as trucks and suv's. Some need to have a couple of wires run. No big deal.

Trailer Brake Controller Information | etrailer.com Read this and know more than many people hauling trailers ever will, even though it is a short article.

This page lists the different brake controllers the other page talks about. Notice the $124 Prodigy P2 has a boot type bracket. You can remove the controller when not towing. Or move it to another vehicle if you purchase a second bracket.
https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Brake_Controller.aspx

This P2 is a highly recommended controller, in any event a Proportional controller is what you want not a timed delay controller, except in really odd circumstances timed delay controller is not desirable.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:18 PM   #35
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I would seek out a utility trailer manufacturer (not camping type) and get a quote to do the job the way you want. All makers order their axles from the same sources.

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Old 08-06-2014, 10:27 PM   #36
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I would seek out a utility trailer manufacturer (not camping type) and get a quote to do the job the way you want. All makers order their axles from the same sources.

Charlie Y

this is a trailer company, not an Rv shop. Company #1 was an Rv shop and they sent me to the trailer company


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Old 08-06-2014, 10:32 PM   #37
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Hmm........maybe a different one? I suspect your options are limited in Saskatchewan.

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Old 08-06-2014, 10:40 PM   #38
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Hmm........maybe a different one? I suspect your options are limited in Saskatchewan.

Charlie Y

In all honesty I don't have a clue where to look next. I do know that I just do not feel comfortable moving forward with this option. I still do t know why he would order the 3500 over 2500 lb axle and apparently never will. I Will just have to pull out the phone book and go searching. Kind of sucks that there were some members from Sask here that May have had local info but they are no longer active.


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Old 08-06-2014, 10:53 PM   #39
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Hopefully they at least ordered the axle with the plate that allows one to add brakes later if desired. Those plates are not expensive when ordered as part of the axle, cost more to add later. If he did not order with brake plates it would be worth asking him to contact Dexter and see if the order can be modified, depending on the additional cost and your willingness to pay it. Ordered does not equal built, Dexter builds axles to order so there may be time to get this option added.

I am not impressed with the person you are dealing with at this shop. It can be a bit of a challenge to provide good advice and information so that a novice customer is making an informed decision. But hey that is part of the job, I did not go to med school so I expect my doctor to explain the condition and options so I can make an informed decision. People do that same explaining and advising on options for repairs or modifications to FGRV's all the time here on the forum.

Bottom line don't panic, but do not take this shop managers word as gospel either. And yes a lot of the experienced members will be annoyed at this person on your behalf and will tell you why but in the end I think even if not the optimal solution experienced person would have gone for it will probably be satisfactory.... as long as you don't run 50 psi tires at that stupidly low air pressure!

Thank you so much for all your information. It is very confusing lol but I am slowly weeding through it. .

I did ask if it would be able to have brakes installed at later date and he said yes but I suppose that doesn't really say if it comes with the plates does it???

I have a bad feeling in my gut. Not that the man is shady necessarily but just something is off. Why would a person want to install an axle that requires all these stupid "fixes" like lower tire pressure to make it hopefully work satisfactorily. Why would you not just install the proper axle from the get go??????????? Is it a price difference thing and he is trying to make some $$? Did he make an error in judgement? Does he just not care that I would have been none the wiser without you all and would have just drove off all oblivious and happy as can be with my monster truck Rv bouncing all over the road??? <--- maybe a tad dramatic lol, but maybe not.

I plan to email him in the morning and let him know seeing as he did give me the option to do so and the
Bottom line is I can not move forward with a company I no longer trust.


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Old 08-07-2014, 12:00 AM   #40
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Good move to cancel. I am a bit suprised that no one here with the same trailer as yours hasn't given you a model/maker or serial number of the original axle or the same info for a replacement they had done. Maybe they are all camping and haven't checked in yet.
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