Mazda CX-5, 2.5L Skyactive G

[The Minimalist]

This one is on my radar now, along with the 2.5L Outback CVT.

2000 lb tow capacity, frontal area suggests no greater than 32 sq ft. the Little Joe is 1800 lb loaded with a frontal area of less than 30 sq ft.

Max torque on this engine is 185 ft lb at 3250 rpm.

Thanks for your comments.

Clif

PS: Trailer brakes will be installed on the LJ.

[MC1]

I had a look at this vehicle when they first came out and was impressed. The CX-5's on the Mazda lot sold almost immediately. Really like the fuel efficiency numbers.

As a comparison our 180TQ Nissan Van towed a 2,000lb pop up (no brakes) all over North America including the Rockies. No problem.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by The Minimalist

This one is on my radar now, along with the 2.5L Outback CVT.

2000 lb tow capacity, frontal area suggests no greater than 32 sq ft. the Little Joe is 1800 lb loaded with a frontal area of less than 30 sq ft.

Max torque on this engine is 185 ft lb at 3250 rpm.

Thanks for your comments.

Clif

PS: Trailer brakes will be installed on the LJ.

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Hmmmm... I don't know how the math is done for frontal area, but the dimensions for the Little Joe indicate that it has a frontal area of about 41 sq.ft. Here's a link to the factory specs.

Weis Craft Trailers - Little Joe Trailer Floor Plan and Specifications

In small, high MPG, vehicles it seems that frontal area is the new bugaboo....

[Bob Miller]

Ooops, now I see to exclude the fenders and the distance from the ground to the bottom of the trailer. Using the inside dimensions it comes out to 30 sq.ft.

[honda03842]

Frontal Area.

The Ford Escape has a frontal area limitation/consideration rating (whatever limitation/consideration means) of 30 square feet. If that's a limit it means you can't tow anything.

The Frontal area calculation includes the frontal area of the Trailer and Tow vehichle. (i.e. if the Tow Vehicle is lower to the ground than the trailer that lower porton of the Tow Vehicle must be included in the frontal area.)

It all makes no sense to me because the frontal area of an Escape alone is probably 30 square feet.

Personally I would not lose sleep over the frontal area of our rather small trailers.

[The Minimalist]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Ooops, now I see to exclude the fenders and the distance from the ground to the bottom of the trailer. Using the inside dimensions it comes out to 30 sq.ft.

Yeah, I based my calculation of the area on measurements from my trailer. Not allowing for the radiused corners, I figuring 31.2 sq ft.

Per Norm, I don't think it's much to worry about.......and I don't think the frontal area is additive, ie frontal area of the TV plus that of the trailer.

In any case, we have opted to go with the Outback for the additional tow capacity. I don't like to work to the edge of a spec, particularly since we will be going to the mountains.

In the towing recommendations, Subaru says "When towing a trailer on a long uphill grade continuously over 5 miles with an outside temperature of 104 degrees F or above." towing capacity drops by half to 1350 lbs.

I guess sometimes we will have to stop halfway up and enjoy the view.

Actually, the new tow rating spec, SAE J2807, for single axle vehicles, specifies the Davis Dam grade( or equivalent simulation) on Arizona Route 68 Southeast of Las Vegas which is a 3000 ft run of 11.4 miles, without dropping below 40 mph, with the AC on high and the ambient temperature of at least 100 degrees F, and no loss of fluids. That's not to mention a number of other tests, such as starting uphill from a stop, 0-30, 0-60, etc. See here. Tow Ratings Pass the Sniff Test - Performance Requirements - The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) - Automobile Magazine.

Touqh spec, but now we have a spec for those companies using it. I think the truck manufacturers are still grousing about it.

Regards.
Clif

[chuyler1]

I'm considering the CX-5 as my next vehicle. I really don't want to overbuy just for the few trips each year that I will be towing our 16' Scamp. Depending on how it is loaded I think we're right around 2,000lbs give or take about 100 lbs.

I noticed the tow package is only a 1-1/4" with a 4-pin connector. I'll probaby skip that and install a 2" and 7-pin connector myself. The only 2" hitch I found says "not intended for weight distribution systems", something for others to note. I don't use a W/D hitch but I guess if I go this route I won't be able to.

I've been holding out on making a decision because of rumors about their new SkyActiv-D diesel engine being offered. It will first arrive in the Mazda6 but the latest reports say the CX-5 won't get it until 2016 model year if it gets it at all.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by chuyler1

I'm considering the CX-5 as my next vehicle. I really don't want to overbuy just for the few trips each year that I will be towing our 16' Scamp. Depending on how it is loaded I think we're right around 2,000lbs give or take about 100 lbs.

Highly recommend you weigh your 16' Scamp if you haven't already as if it comes in at 2000lbs it would win the prize for the lightest on out there assuming its not had everything stripped out of it. More probable that it weighs in closer 2600lbs or higher.

[chuyler1]

That would be rather impressive of my little 110hp truck was hauling 2600 lbs, However I have heard stories of guys with little 70's minitrucks hauling upwards of 4000 lbs.

I did see a post on this site where a good deal of 16 footers were weighing in between 2100-2400 lbs. We don't carry all that much (we're just weekend warriors) and I'd have to put absolutely everything in the front closet to get a tongue weight over 250 lbs. Typically I balance it for 225lbs. I do know at 200lbs it develops a bit of sway over 60 mph.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by chuyler1

That would be rather impressive of my little 110hp truck was hauling 2600 lbs, However I have heard stories of guys with little 70's minitrucks hauling upwards of 4000 lbs.

I did see a post on this site where a good deal of 16 footers were weighing in between 2100-2400 lbs. We don't carry all that much (we're just weekend warriors) and I'd have to put absolutely everything in the front closet to get a tongue weight over 250 lbs. Typically I balance it for 225lbs. I do know at 200lbs it develops a bit of sway over 60 mph.

I missed the posts of people reporting the weight at such low numbers for a 16' - I would have had a few questions on the state of the trailer at the time of weighing. ;-). I do weigh my trailer a few times a year as I do/did need to be careful pulling with a Subaru Outback with only a 2800lb towing capacity rating. Which BTW I found to be a borderline comfortable tow for a 16' & think it more suited to pulling at 13'. After six years of fussing over weights & having to be extra careful on the stow and watching my speed I recently upgraded to something with more towing capacity.

Yup I can get the sway at only 200lbs on the tongue as well simple because the axle weight on my 16' Scamp loaded for camping (no water) and I am careful on what I load in it comes in between 2300 & 2400lbs so 200lbs is well under 10% of the axle weight.

The Trailer Weight In the Real World thread is a great thread. Note most of the trailers were weighed in on arrival at a trailer meet with full hook-ups so its doubtful that many if any had water in their tanks - my 16' Standard appears on the list.

[Wallo]

My 13' Scamp with bath weighs in at 1840#. I originally had a 2009 Subaru Forester with a tow capacity of 2400# to tow with. It did a nice job, but in planning to upgrade to a larger 15' to 17' trailer in the future, I bought one of the last 2012 V6 Rav4 with a towing capacity of 3500#. Can't tell the Scamp is back there. The trips I've made, average 19 MPG. Sometimes I can get up to 22 MPG, depending on the area and gasoline. Of note, I never go over 65 mph, and in CA vehicles towing a trailer can only go 55 mph. Better safe than sorry. Smaller, less expensive, gas efficient vehicles that can tow 2500 - 3500# are becoming a rare breed.

[honda03842]

Chris,

We tow a loaded Scamp 16 with a 200 lb tongue weight, now up to 210 or so since the repairs to the frame. We do a couple of things to reduce the possibility of sway.

We have pushed the ball mount shaft further into it's receiver about 2 or 3". This moves the Tongue load closer to the rear axle, in a small way attempting to become a fifth wheel. It did require drilling an additional hole in the ball mount's shaft.

We dramatically increase the tire pressure of the tow vehicle's tires 26 to 39 on the rear and 26 to 34 on the fronts. We do this to stiffen the side walls to reduce the any rolling over on to the sidewalls.

We stiffen the linkage between the hitch and ball's mounting shaft.

We also keep our trailer's tire pressure at maximum, 50 lbs in our case.

We also have added an anti-sway bar. We traveled without an anti-sway bar for about 2 years and never experienced sway with either fiberglass trailer. We added it because we were told it would be nice in an emergency. We do not sock the anti-sway bars brake pad down hard, we do want it to have the ability to slide, providing a braking function.

[chuyler1]

Thanks Carol, looks like 2500lbs is probably a closer estimate. I'm just hoping to avoid buying a large vehicle just so we can tow with it a few weekends out of the year. I don't mind going slow, I will have a brake controller hooked up...so is 500 over going to cause problems?

[Glenn Baglo]

That's for the actuary at your life insurance company to decide.
But, white knuckle driving is not my idea of recreation.

baglo

[chuyler1]

Keep in mind I've been towing it with a restored 1975 mini truck.

[Glenn Baglo]

You are hoping to read responses that say 'go ahead'.
So, go ahead.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by chuyler1

Thanks Carol, looks like 2500lbs is probably a closer estimate. I'm just hoping to avoid buying a large vehicle just so we can tow with it a few weekends out of the year. I don't mind going slow, I will have a brake controller hooked up...so is 500 over going to cause problems?

You really don't need to get a big vehicle to pull a 16' but I would if you look at something with at least enough tow capacity rating.

Lots of people pull with the RAV4's and are happy with them. I pulled a 16' with an Outback with a tow rated of 2800lbs and it wasn't an unpleasant or scary experience - actually some might be a little surprised as to how well it did tow. I did have to be careful with how I stowed the trailer and didn't expect much in the way of hill power. The pit fall to it was the tongue weight limit of 200lbs and you can't use a WDH on it. I do though tow a lot of miles (not your average week-end camper ) It probable would have been just fine if I was only doing a few trips a year rather than the wear and tear of 25,000 or more tow miles a year. I loved that car and have had 3 of them so making the switch to a slightly large tug was a tough one for me.

[chuyler1]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

You are hoping to read responses that say 'go ahead'.
So, go ahead.

I know I know. I can scour the internet and find photos of people hauling larger loads with this car. That doesn't make it safe. However it will certainly be safer than my current option which I only plan to continue to do for short trips to car-related events (where people appreciate seeing the old pickup).

I'd be most worried about the transmission. In fact, I was doing some research on the Mini Countryman today. I'd prefer a stick shift and Mini offers the Clubman with all the niceties, the more powerful engine, and all wheel drive with a manual transmission. Mazda only offers the base model. Of course Mini doesn't recommend towing at all with the car in the US but they rate it at 1000kg (with trailer brakes) in the UK. More research revealed owners are using them to tow upwards of 2,000lbs.

I don't know. I just don't want to drive a full size truck every day for the few weekends out of the year I'll be hauling a trailer. If rear sag is an issue I'm not opposed to installing adjustable shocks or something.

[Wallo]

A full size truck is not your only option. Honda mini van, or Pilot, Toyota Highlander, Ford Escape (properly equipped, higher powered engine.) Nissan X terra. (GM probably has a couple of vehicles that would work too, but since being screwed by them as a former employee, I don't bother keeping up with their product.)

[chuyler1]

So the Escape is near identical in size to the CX-5. It appears the 1.6L is rated for 2,000lbs and the 2.0L is rated for 3,500lbs. Aside from the obvious increase in torque and horsepower what else does the Escape offer that improves it's towing capabilities? Does the tow package change the final drive ratio or include larger brakes or radiator?