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Old 11-18-2021, 01:22 PM   #1
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Mirrors

Those of us without fullsized trucks for towing have struggled with towing mirrors forever.
I found this company which will be offering extendable OEM quality mirrors for my 2019 Ranger.
They offer a line of products which many of us may find useful.
They can be costly but "it only costs twice as much to go first class"
https://www.clearviewmirrorsusa.com/
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Old 11-19-2021, 02:01 PM   #2
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Only struggled until I found McKesh mirrors. Not integrated like the ones you linked to, but they really are the cat’s meow.

-Mike
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Old 11-19-2021, 03:19 PM   #3
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Diddo on the Mckesh and you don't have to take out a loan to buy them.
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Old 11-19-2021, 04:39 PM   #4
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I see that clear view mirrors USA is a division of Atlantic British, a company well known to me from when I was restoring, then driving a 1966 Land Rover Series IIa. Good folks to deal with.
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Old 11-19-2021, 04:46 PM   #5
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Our boler has never been a problem to see around even towing with a minivan but but the right side "things are closer than they appear" mirror is a real pain.
I tow with our classic car quite often and have a pair of classic fender wheel opening mount ones that work really well.
Not a great pic to show the mirrors but you probably get the idea.
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Old 11-20-2021, 06:29 AM   #6
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OK, I'm an old SOB. I have a 2004 Nissan Frontier that I bought new back then. When I'm hooked up to the trailer it ain't wide enough to see around the trailer. I can't see around it because my mirrors don't extend. No big deal. I've always used a little bit of an in-lane serpentine sway to check out what's behind me. Never had a problem with situational awareness in over 13+ years I've had the trailer, (not my first rodeo either as far as towing,) as to what's behind me.
And I grew up with a rotary dial phone that was plugged into the wall. If you wanted a mobile phone, you bought a longer cord. I don't have rear view cameras or an autonomous driving vehicle either, where I can do 60 mph down the road while sitting in the back seat eating a sandwich. (And frankly, I don't trust the technology. I drive with my hands on the wheel and look around.) I learned to drive the old fashioned way. And I also back up to hitch my trailer without any cameras or those stupid "newbie" orange marker rods, (the ones where you stick one on the hitch and one on the trailer tongue and attempt to line them up after several backing maneuvers.) All this newfangled computerized crap is just an excuse for people to not really learn how to drive. How about parallel parking? Does anyone under 30 even know how to do it anymore? I've never needed wider mirrors in over fifty years of driving. Yep, keep looking for that "drive-thru" site at the campground so you don't have to learn to back up a trailer either.
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Old 11-20-2021, 10:06 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Casita Greg View Post
OK, I'm an old SOB. I have a 2004 Nissan Frontier that I bought new back then. When I'm hooked up to the trailer it ain't wide enough to see around the trailer. I can't see around it because my mirrors don't extend. No big deal. I've always used a little bit of an in-lane serpentine sway to check out what's behind me. Never had a problem with situational awareness in over 13+ years I've had the trailer, (not my first rodeo either as far as towing,) as to what's behind me.
And I grew up with a rotary dial phone that was plugged into the wall. If you wanted a mobile phone, you bought a longer cord. I don't have rear view cameras or an autonomous driving vehicle either, where I can do 60 mph down the road while sitting in the back seat eating a sandwich. (And frankly, I don't trust the technology. I drive with my hands on the wheel and look around.) I learned to drive the old fashioned way. And I also back up to hitch my trailer without any cameras or those stupid "newbie" orange marker rods, (the ones where you stick one on the hitch and one on the trailer tongue and attempt to line them up after several backing maneuvers.) All this newfangled computerized crap is just an excuse for people to not really learn how to drive. How about parallel parking? Does anyone under 30 even know how to do it anymore? I've never needed wider mirrors in over fifty years of driving. Yep, keep looking for that "drive-thru" site at the campground so you don't have to learn to back up a trailer either.
I do get your point, but the purpose of extended mirrors is primarily to see traffic approaching from the rear in your lane.
Each state has it's own standards , I believe ours is something like... traffic must be visible 135 ft behind your trailer.
With different trailer combos that can't be done with standard mirrors, which then need to be supplemented or replaced to meet the standard.
Also some driver's would be more comfortable to be able to see traffic even closer.
Some aftermarket mirrors are a nuisance and some are expensive, so I agree that if you don't need them , don't buy them.
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Old 11-20-2021, 12:05 PM   #8
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I found this regarding Illinois trailer mirror regulations.
Illinois Vehicle Code - 625 ILCS 5, Section 12-502 Mirrors. Every motor vehicle, operated singly or when towing another vehicle, shall be equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of such motor vehicle.

Arizona's law says this.
Title 28: Chapter 2: Article 16 Equipment 28-956. Mirrors
A motor vehicle that is constructed or loaded in a manner that obstructs the driver's view to the rear of the vehicle from the driver's position shall be equipped with two mirrors located in a manner to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least two hundred feet to the rear of the vehicle.


The phrase "at least" implies you should be able to have a clear view of the highway within that minumum distance of 200' behind the back of the trailer. That means adjacent lanes, not directly behind the trailer. Specifically it is not addressing the size of the blind spot, which would only make sense if it said "at most" 200'.

As long as you have a clear view along the sides of the trailer and of overtaking traffic in both adjacent lanes (including a lane-splitting motorcyclist), you are legal.
Click image for larger version

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The wider the mirrors the smaller the rear blind spot, which is helpful but not required by law. The body of my tow vehicle is the same width as the Scamp, so the factory mirrors work fine, as long as I keep in mind the distance distortion on the passenger side. Merging right does take more care than merging left.

As to the rear blind spot, like Greg I have never had a problem maintaining situational awareness of traffic behind me. Curves and the natural movement of traffic within the lane are sufficient. It helps that the Scamp is fairly narrow as travel trailers go.
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Old 11-20-2021, 01:15 PM   #9
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Thanks for your research and your interpretation.
Many folks use aftermarket mirrors to supplement their rear view when towing and find the stock mirrors inadequate.
Many of those are of limited use due to vibration , inconvenience, or failure to stay adjusted.
Replacement extendable mirrors of OEM quality may be the best solution where adequate visibility is a problem.

Still, I did not mean to imply that they are intended for people who have no use for them.
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Old 11-20-2021, 03:25 PM   #10
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I use extended mirrors, and a rear view camera when pulling my Scamp with the Frontier. I like being able to see what is behind me.
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Old 11-21-2021, 07:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Many folks use aftermarket mirrors to supplement their rear view when towing and find the stock mirrors inadequate.
Many of those are of limited use due to vibration , inconvenience, or failure to stay adjusted.
Replacement extendable mirrors of OEM quality may be the best solution where adequate visibility is a problem.
I didn’t mean to imply that towing mirrors are never needed, and I agree that OEM replacement extendable mirrors are certainly worth considering if you need mirror extensions to be legal or if you simply desire a better view.

Besides the reduction in vibration and the convenience of having them always ready to go, the ability to adjust them from inside the cabin using the factory mirror buttons is huge, especially if you have more than one driver. As a kid I remember standing outside our station wagon in a rest stop adjusting the fender mounted towing mirrors every time Mom and Dad switched seats.

It also keeps things simple, in the sense that folks with mirror extensions are tracking four rear views (five if you also have a rear camera displaying on a screen, as some have noted). Too much information can be just as bad as not enough when you're making split second decisions in real-world driving.

If you tow often and keep your tow vehicles a long time, the cost becomes less of an issue.

Biggest downside I see is the limited vehicle selection. None of them are on my short list of future tow vehicles for our Scamp. In particular, there are no crossover-type passenger vehicles. The list is all about mid-sized trucks and truck-type SUVs: vehicles with higher tow ratings that do not offer factory extendable towing mirrors.

However, the Ranger and Colorado/Canyon are common enough among forum members to make the link worth posting.
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Old 11-21-2021, 10:12 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
I didn’t mean to imply that towing mirrors are never needed, and I agree that OEM replacement extendable mirrors are certainly worth considering if you need mirror extensions to be legal or if you simply desire a better view.

Besides the reduction in vibration and the convenience of having them always ready to go, the ability to adjust them from inside the cabin using the factory mirror buttons is huge, especially if you have more than one driver. As a kid I remember standing outside our station wagon in a rest stop adjusting the fender mounted towing mirrors every time Mom and Dad switched seats.

It also keeps things simple, in the sense that folks with mirror extensions are tracking four rear views (five if you also have a rear camera displaying on a screen, as some have noted). Too much information can be just as bad as not enough when you're making split second decisions in real-world driving.

If you tow often and keep your tow vehicles a long time, the cost becomes less of an issue.

Biggest downside I see is the limited vehicle selection. None of them are on my short list of future tow vehicles for our Scamp. In particular, there are no crossover-type passenger vehicles. The list is all about mid-sized trucks and truck-type SUVs: vehicles with higher tow ratings that do not offer factory extendable towing mirrors.

However, the Ranger and Colorado/Canyon are common enough aong forum members to make the link worth posting.
I have heard that this company is open to suggestions for new products.
When I bought my 2001 Ranger, I wanted CIPA mirrors for it,
Alas, they didn't make them for the Ranger.
I did a little research (mostly at car lots) until I found the right mirrors on a certain model of the Explorer. So I ordered the CIPAs for the Explorer and had a perfect fit for the Ranger.
That strategy might work with some SUVs with pickup counterparts?
(maybe)
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Old 11-24-2021, 11:47 AM   #13
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I pull our 1972 Boler 1300 with either a 2008 Honda Pilot or Saturn Outlook. Have not found to have needed any add on mirrors. Having said that, I travel with the front and back curtains wid open so I can see right through the Boler. Works like a charm.
Cheers
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Old 11-24-2021, 12:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
I found this regarding Illinois trailer mirror regulations.
Illinois Vehicle Code - 625 ILCS 5, Section 12-502 Mirrors. Every motor vehicle, operated singly or when towing another vehicle, shall be equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of such motor vehicle.

Arizona's law says this.
Title 28: Chapter 2: Article 16 Equipment 28-956. Mirrors
A motor vehicle that is constructed or loaded in a manner that obstructs the driver's view to the rear of the vehicle from the driver's position shall be equipped with two mirrors located in a manner to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least two hundred feet to the rear of the vehicle.


The phrase "at least" implies you should be able to have a clear view of the highway within that minumum distance of 200' behind the back of the trailer. That means adjacent lanes, not directly behind the trailer. Specifically it is not addressing the size of the blind spot, which would only make sense if it said "at most" 200'.

As long as you have a clear view along the sides of the trailer and of overtaking traffic in both adjacent lanes (including a lane-splitting motorcyclist), you are legal.
Attachment 144160
Words sometimes mean things and the words say BEHIND the vehicle, not beside. I like to see the tail gaters.
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Old 11-24-2021, 12:53 PM   #15
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I use the McKesh with my 2021 Ranger. I want to see everything. I tow trailers from 7’ to 8.5’ wide with it. The Clearview have been around a long time, but not with matching electrical connections for the North American Ranger. I hope in 2022 they really have them. I don’t like dealing with the McKesh, but it’s the only solution that currently actually works for me. There is this without blind spot mirrors like the McKesh.
https://www.amazon.com/CIPA-11650-Deluxe-Towing-Mirror/dp/B00029WRJQ/ref=pd_aw_sbs_4/147-4607417-4355414?pd_rd_w=CYbHh&pf_rd_p=aebd8d66-164c-41b3-915b-962f48ba7f71&pf_rd_r=2KQQR19K185223JKDFPJ&pd_rd_r= 74e9dd96-05d7-4d9f-93c0-ef1c11aff603&pd_rd_wg=4c7Ac&pd_rd_i=B00029WRJQ&psc =1
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Old 11-24-2021, 02:18 PM   #16
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It all depends on the width of your TowV.
To properly back up a a trailer, I find I need to clearly see the full sides of my trailer. The car mirrors didn't cut it.
After many tests, I found some ratchet lock Deluxe Universal Clip-on Trailer Towing Mirrors that work great for me.
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Old 11-24-2021, 03:48 PM   #17
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Because of my experience driving big trucks I also like having spot mirrors. At this time I'm only using a small stick-on spot mirror on the left factory mirror as I haven't figured out how to install a larger one. The spot mirror fills in the blind spot created when someone is passing me on the left
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:32 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by AC0GV View Post
Words sometimes mean things and the words say BEHIND the vehicle, not beside. I like to see the tail gaters.
Certainly words have meaning, but in this context they could not possibly mean what you are suggesting.

Regarding the meaning of the words used in the laws, anything rearward of the back bumper is “behind” your vehicle, whether is is in your lane or adjacent lanes. If you said a vehicle is “beside” you, the common sense interpretation would be forward of your rear bumper in the adjacent lane. The point of the law is you have to be able to see an overtaking vehicle 200’ before it passes your back bumper, while it is still “behind” you.

Here is the typical view from the side mirror of a commercial tractor trailer. They are subject to exactly the same rear view mirror rules as recreational trailers. Note they can see along the side but not directly behind. Note the lower mirror functions as the spot mirror Bob uses to increase the view directly beside you.
Click image for larger version

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I agree that situational awareness of a tailgater is a good thing, but it is not required to be legal.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:00 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by AC0GV View Post
Words sometimes mean things and the words say BEHIND the vehicle, not beside. I like to see the tail gaters.

Especially on two lane roads.
Its a good idea to be able to see that ambulance, fire engine, or police car
at least 200feet directly behind you in your lane. (If not closer)


I have noticed that way too many drivers are oblivious to upcoming traffic, even without a trailer, and often obstruct emergency vehicles by ignoring them and failing to pull over to the shoulder to yield.


I understand some folks learning to compensate for marginal mirrors, but I can't quite understand advocating against making improvements where useful.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:27 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Especially on two lane roads.
Its a good idea to be able to see that ambulance, fire engine, or police car
at least 200feet directly behind you in your lane. (If not closer)


I have noticed that way too many drivers are oblivious to upcoming traffic, even without a trailer, and often obstruct emergency vehicles by ignoring them and failing to pull over to the shoulder to yield.


I understand some folks learning to compensate for marginal mirrors, but I can't quite understand advocating against making improvements where useful.
I have never advocated against better mirrors. Not once. I do have a problem when people appeal to a “higher authority” (i.e., the law) as the basis of their argument and proceed to misinterpret that authority.

The reasons you suggest are all good reasons (apart from the law) to have good towing mirrors.

My experience is folks that are oblivious are unlikely to be helped by any amount of additional equipment and technology. It’s a people problem, exacerbated by the general lack of meaningful driver training required to get a license and operate oversized non-commercial vehicles in the US.

I was following a travel trailer yesterday and watched it make a right-hand turn into a gas station from the left lane, cutting off a minivan overtaking in the right lane.. Fortunately we were in town and traffic was moving slowly. A quick reaction by the minivan averted disaster.
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