Need Advise - Tow Vehicle

[LoneWolf04]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

I will second that.
Too bad that the EPA is being gutted

Well they missed the ball big time on the VW scandal. Good for making rules, not great testers.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf04

Well they missed the ball big time on the VW scandal. Good for making rules, not great testers.

So let's toss out all rules and let the planet burn? What's your plan?

[redbarron55]

I had two of the 2.0 TDI Sportwagens and I loved them.
The EPA at that time trusted the manufacturers to not abuse the law and knowingly subvert the rules.
Not any more!
It almost cost VW their company over 30 billion dollars and counting.
Jail time for some VW execs and engineers.
The VW 2.0 TDI the engine too good to be true!
On Diesel the question is where is the payback point located?
If the vehicle gets 20% better mileage, but the fuel costs 30% more there is no savings there.
If the engine lasts twice as long but cost twice as much?
I love the torque ect, but I always worried about some expensive breakdown.
In the case of the VW TDI in retrospect after putting close to 1/2 million miles on them I think it is a wash.
I replaced one of my Sportwagens with a Chrysler T&C and a VW 1.8 TSI Passat.
When I had the Sportwagen I calculated the if the VW TDI got 25 MPG towing the Scamp a gas car would have to get 16 MPG or better to match the cost of towing.
The T&C gets 17 - 18 MPG towing so with the higher horsepower and room in the van I think it is a better TV than the Sportwagen was.
And I can get regular unleaded everywhere and sometimes it was a little inconvenient finding Diesel fuel when I needed ti.

[JBjunior]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

I had two of the 2.0 TDI Sportwagens and I loved them.
The EPA at that time trusted the manufacturers to not abuse the law and knowingly subvert the rules.
Not any more!
It almost cost VW their company over 30 billion dollars and counting.
Jail time for some VW execs and engineers.
The VW 2.0 TDI the engine too good to be true!
On Diesel the question is where is the payback point located?
If the vehicle gets 20% better mileage, but the fuel costs 30% more there is no savings there.
If the engine lasts twice as long but cost twice as much?
I love the torque ect, but I always worried about some expensive breakdown.
In the case of the VW TDI in retrospect after putting close to 1/2 million miles on them I think it is a wash.
I replaced one of my Sportwagens with a Chrysler T&C and a VW 1.8 TSI Passat.
When I had the Sportwagen I calculated the if the VW TDI got 25 MPG towing the Scamp a gas car would have to get 16 MPG or better to match the cost of towing.
The T&C gets 17 - 18 MPG towing so with the higher horsepower and room in the van I think it is a better TV than the Sportwagen was.
And I can get regular unleaded everywhere and sometimes it was a little inconvenient finding Diesel fuel when I needed ti.

The break even point only calculates the fuel cost, it is rarely an apples to apples comparison with what you are getting as far as the vehicle. Name another wagon on the market, with a towing capacity, with similar fuel economy, with the features. Initial cost of the upgrade to the engine is only because they produce far less of them and charge a premium due to that. I will take my 30 MPG in my diesel truck over watching the gas needle move every time I drive it. Love the 45-50 MPG in my '03 wagons.

Regardless, why does diesel cost more even though historically it was less than gasoline? It is less refined and easier to produce. It is taxed higher, has a higher demand globally, and imported less due to our reliance on gasoline.

[redbarron55]

Actually for the 2.0 TDI the cost of maintenance is not insignificant.
I can only speak of the VW TDI and not ALH etc.
Having put a bunch of miles on the wagens (and I loved them) with DPF filter problems injectors DSG service, timing belt changes the fuel is not the only thing that adds to the break even cost.
My new 1.8 TSI Passat has more power than then TDI and the tuning brings the torque in at low rpm and has the grunt like the TDI did.
And it burns RUG.
The operating and maintenance cost in my case would have been higher if I did not do most of the work myself (thank God for the VCDS).
Turbos, Boost control actuators, DPF and catalytic converters, lower A arm bushings. etc these things add up.
It is the total cost that counts. To some extent it is the luck of the draw that drives the cost.
By the way the Passat 1.8 TSI is as good or better than the TDI, If they only made a Passat wagen!

[JBjunior]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

Actually for the 2.0 TDI the cost of maintenance is not insignificant.
I can only speak of the VW TDI and not ALH etc.
Having put a bunch of miles on the wagens (and I loved them) with DPF filter problems injectors DSG service, timing belt changes the fuel is not the only thing that adds to the break even cost.
My new 1.8 TSI Passat has more power than then TDI and the tuning brings the torque in at low rpm and has the grunt like the TDI did.
And it burns RUG.
The operating and maintenance cost in my case would have been higher if I did not do most of the work myself (thank God for the VCDS).
Turbos, Boost control actuators, DPF and catalytic converters, lower A arm bushings. etc these things add up.
It is the total cost that counts. To some extent it is the luck of the draw that drives the cost.
By the way the Passat 1.8 TSI is as good or better than the TDI, If they only made a Passat wagen!

The gas version doesn't have lower "A" arm bushings, a catalytic converter, or a turbo? Timing belt/chain service needs to happen on gas vehicles too, the only difference is if it isn't an interference engine people drive them until they break. Everything needs maintenance, and yes many parts on a diesel engine are more expensive, but reliability is generally higher. I have been a diesel mechanic for around 15 years and the simplicity of the engines, as they are designed, creates a reliable machine. I wouldn't own the 2.0 because of the HPFP issues, but with the right insurance company many of those issues were taken care of. Yet again, a lot of of the maintenance costs were increased due to emissions equipment being added.

[Tom 72]

Why does diesel cost more than gas?

1. in 2007 diesel switched to ultra low sulfer formulation. It varied but was in the range of 300ppm sulfer. I think it dropped to 15ppm, as I recall, making the refining way more costly.

2. In some states diesel is taxed more at the pump, perhaps as a way to charge commercial truckers extra. Many truckers can pass through high tax states without refueling. See below.

3. At times we may export diesel, making it a bit more scarce. Other countries have more diesels in their fleets, including cars.

Taxes in cents:
Diesel - Gas

Federal
24.4 - 18.4

Select States:
PA
74.70 - 58.20

AZ
27.0 - 19.0

NV
33.52 - 28.56

FL
36.8 - 33.77

NJ
37.1 - 33.4

As examples, I chose states with higher diesel taxes. Amounts are in cents. Many states tax both the same. A few tax gas more.

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_t..._United_States

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

I will second that.
Too bad that the EPA is being gutted

Gutted? Really?? How many employees have they let go?


But if you refer to changes in cost-benefit analyses and stopping the unnecessary regulation of carbon dioxide emissions, I say good for them. Better to concentrate regulatory resources on genuinely dangerous polluters.


Interesting to hear about the VW TSI. Are they putting a meaningful tow rating on their cars yet?

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Gutted? Really?? How many employees have they let go?


But if you refer to changes in cost-benefit analyses and stopping the unnecessary regulation of carbon dioxide emissions, I say good for them. Better to concentrate regulatory resources on genuinely dangerous polluters.


Interesting to hear about the VW TSI. Are they putting a meaningful tow rating on their cars yet?

Interesting way of looking at the situation
For me “ Gutting “ is much to mild of a description / term