Raising a Compact II

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Bret Tresidder

I know that I definitely want to remove the frame from the body so I can clean, inspect, and repair the frame (as needed), and to "flip" my axle to gain some towing clearance. Is gutting the interior a "must do" in order to separate the frame, or can the frame be "dropped" from a trailer that is carefully blocked-up like I have seen others post for Scamps, Bolers, etc.

The picture in post #13 is before my total disassembly, but after the original axle was flipped. The original stance was lower than shown. "Flipping" the axle is quite simple:

1. Remove the tires & wheels.
2. Unbolt the 4 U-bolts holding the axle to the top of the springs.
3. Rotate the axle 90 degrees and pull it out sideways from between the frame and spring. Without brake drums the hubs fit through the arc of the springs.
4. Place it below the springs in the same orientation as before.
   (You are flipping the position; NOT the orientation of the drop!)
5. Reattach the axle to the bottom of the springs with NEW U-bolts.
6. Reinstall the tires & wheels.

This raised my Compact Jr's body & frame 5", from 7" off the pavement to 11" off the pavement as measured at the back bumper. Mounting a straight axle in the original above-the-springs position raises the body & frame the same amount; mounting a straight axle below-the-springs will double the lift.

I edited post #16 above to add pictures of the stripped body just before the lift off of the frame. As pictured in post #13 my Compact Jr weighed 1420 pounds dry total after my 1st rebuild. My goal for the 2nd rebuild is to reduce weight and correct all the mistakes I made the 1st time. The floor in the Jr is only down the middle; I don't know if the II is the same or if it extends all the way to the side walls.

[Bret Tresidder]

"What type of frame repair are you talking about?"

Our frame appears to be "caked" with multiple layers of paint, so I would like to remove all of the old paint and gunk, check for any cracks, and possibly reinforce the connection of the "A" portion of the tongue/frame and add a metal tongue box.

Demo'ing the interior may be our best bet anyway, so the trailer will have a fresh start in its 40+ year life. Since the trailer will be a "loaner" for family and friends, I want to make sure that it is road-worthy, fully functional, and free of any old odors.

Just a few more other chores around the house and I'm ready to start !

Thanks,

Bret (and associates)

[Brian B-P]

Edit note: In the next post, Tim suggests that the axle has a square tube - if the tube is square, the leaves can bolt on without perches (although this practice is cheap and I think unadvisable - albeit common in light trailers), and my comments above would be invalid. Indeed Frederick's photo shows a square tube with no perches, and so his procedure is complete as he posted it.

I am leaving my post here (with a fix), in case anyone wants to apply this method to a round-tube axle (which is most trailer axles), or to a square-tube axle with perches (as they should all have).

Also, in Frederick's photo of the axle though the open floor, there is a hole visible in the top of square axle tube. This is to presumably to clear the end of the bolt which holds the spring pack together (perches have a similar) hole, as well as to locate the springs on the axle (keep them from slipping). If the axle does not already have a hole on each side, the conversion will require drilling the hole.

---------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

"Flipping" the axle is quite simple:

1. Remove the tires & wheels.
2. Unbolt the 4 U-bolts holding the axle to the top of the springs.
3. Rotate the axle 90 degrees and pull it out sideways from between the frame and spring. Without brake drums the hubs fit through the arc of the springs.
4. Place it below the springs in the same orientation as before.
   (You are flipping the position; NOT the orientation of the drop!)
5. Reattach the axle to the bottom of the springs with NEW U-bolts.
6. Reinstall the tires & wheels.

Nice clear description, but if it were applied to a round-tube axle it would be (see edit note above) missing one key item: the spring perches (or "seats") which and sandwiched between the round axle tube and the flat springs. Originally, with the springs under the axle, the spring perches must have been under the axle tube; "flipped", with the springs over the axle, there must be spring perches on top of the axle tube. Before re-attaching the axle to the springs, a perch must be provided such as by one of these four methods:

1. there were already double perches on the axle (top and bottom) - not likely, but possible
2. the original perches are ground off and welded back on (on the other side of the tube)
3. new perches are welded on
4. a bolt-on conversion kit (new perches bolt to originals) is installed (the Dexter kit includes the new U-bolts which Frederick mentioned; it also has new tie plates)

[Tim 972]

Frederick,

Please no disrespect but I'm a little confused how would flipping your axle (moving the springs from below the axle to above the axle) when the axle is a 2x2 square tube with a 4 inch drop be the same lift as a straight axle. Wouldn't there be a 2 inch difference and when flipping the axle on a straight axle net you 6 inches?

Additionally larger tire diameter plus taller side wall would gain another 1-2 inches.

Axle to ground clearance when going from 4 inch drop to straight would be a minimum 4 inches plus tire size change.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Tim 972

... but I'm a little confused how would flipping your axle (moving the springs from below the axle to above the axle) when the axle is a 2x2 square tube with a 4 inch drop be the same lift as a straight axle. Wouldn't there be a 2 inch difference ...

There's the thickness of the leaf springs and perches, as well. Imagine an axle tube on top of the springs and another identical one below the springs: if the axle tube is 2", the distance between the centres of the tubes is 2" plus the thickness of the stack of springs, plus the thickness of two of whatever spring perch is used (if any).

For instance, the change is about 4" for a typical Dexter D3500 axle with 2-3/8" tube, 4-leaf pack, and standard Dexter perches.

The change in height is unrelated to the axle drop, if the drop is unchanged.

[Tim 972]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, i wasn't including the spring height in my calculations.

Couldn't see the forest for the trees!

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

... Indeed Frederick's photo shows a square tube with no perches, and so his procedure is complete as he posted it.

Actually, the original Compact Jr. axle is a square solid bar. The hole is drilled completely through the bar, providing the location for the spring pack's bolt on both sides.


As Brian pointed out, my new axle is a round hollow tube, and I had it made with perches on both top and bottom. This way the new axle has the option of being "flipped" even though I plan to mount it spring under for lower overall height.

[SouthwestOregon201]

Here's a note to several of you considering the straight axle. You really only need to mount one pair of spring perches. The springs have a bolt through the center of each leaf. You can mount the axle on the top or bottom and place the 'U' bolts up or down depending on how you like the axle.
I just did this on another trailer. Axle below the springs - 'U' bolts up, axle above the springs - 'U' bolts down.
If you have to have the 'U' bolts down, then mount two sets of the perches.
When I put this axle together I realized that I didn't want the axle below the springs. In about 5 minutes I changed the orientation and mounted it up under the blocked up trailer (a 1969 Scotsman) with aluminum skin.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SouthwestOregon201

Here's a note to several of you considering the straight axle. You really only need to mount one pair of spring perches. The springs have a bolt through the center of each leaf. You can mount the axle on the top or bottom and place the 'U' bolts up or down depending on how you like the axle.

I think this means to literally flip the axle - rotate it about its axis half a turn. This is fine (with a straight axle) as long as it is truly straight; however, axles routinely have a slight but deliberate bend upward in the middle (or are cambered about one degree positive each side by welding the spindles on at that slight angle) so that when loaded they are straight, rather than sagging and negatively cambered.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

Actually, the original Compact Jr. axle is a square solid bar. The hole is drilled completely through the bar, providing the location for the spring pack's bolt on both sides.

I suppose I should have said "tube or bar"... but a solid bar (square or round) for an axle is bizarre. In a quick Google search for "square tube trailer axles" I found that small square axles are typically 2" square (as Tim mentioned) with 3/16" walls for up to 2500 pound capacity and with 1/4" walls for 3500 pound capacity. Solid square bar is about twice as heavy (an extra 30+ kg or 70+ lb) and likely twice as expensive as this heavy-wall tubing for little gain in bending strength. With straight axles, the spindles (which are solid) usually just slide into the tube, easily making a very sound connection in a way that can't be done with a solid bar axle (although I realize that this doesn't apply to the dropped axle).

[SouthwestOregon201]

I got busy and built the axle for my Compact II. It's hard to get any painting done this time of year in Oregon.
I measured the old axle, from the center of the spindle to the fiberglass top of the wheel well and compared it to the new axle measurement. I found that the straight axle is now 3 inches lower than the drop axle.
The new wheels and tires will be ordered tomorrow, but I did get some measurements from the dealer. There will be a 1/2" heighth addition from putting 14" wheels on, I will also gain 1" more heighth from the new tires.
Overall, that will raise the original height of the trailer by 4 1/2".
After I finish with mounting the wheels on and replacing the pop-top, after the material gets replaced, I'll check the overall heighth to see if it will still fit in a standard garage door opening.
Here are a couple pictures of the new axle installed, with new bearings, dust seal, spindles, springs, U-bolts, etc.

[SouthwestOregon201]

Here's a look at the new tires and wheels mounted to the trailer. The top of the trailer will be just over 7', without the pop-top back on. I'll get the final clearance heighth when everything is assembled. My goal was to push the trailer up alittle to look better on my 2012 Tacoma, but not too high so that someone could still get it into their garage.

[deryk]

I like it! Now you can take it off roading without worry of bottoming out.

deryk

[gunner12]

Hi everyone, im looking into the same style set up, I have adopted 12 miles of trail in the sequoia national forest and need hight for sure. this seems to be a good idea to what im looking for. very clean set up! One question I is the stock axles 1"? I have 4 lug now but own 5 lug 1" hubs, I wonder if they would work..

[SouthwestOregon201]

Hi Jason,
This set up wasn't too difficult to finish. I went to a metal fabrication place and purchased all the parts. The spindles were 1", so the axle had a slightly larger inside diameter. The hubs were 5 on 4 1/2", I think the same as a ford wheel pattern. The original was the same, so now I have two spare tires.

I measured the top of the flange for the pop top down to the floor and I'm still just under 84". My single car garage doors will open to 85". I'm only thinking about the next owner because I store the trailer in the shop with 10 foot doors.

I'm happy with the look of the 14" wheels. I remember years ago, having a flatbed trailer with 8" wheels and measuring the roll distance (circumference) against my '87 Toyota wheels. When I drove at 60 miles an hour, those little tires were spinning three times faster.

[gunner12]

Thanks Dave for the reply, Did you use your stock spindles and just cut them off the stock axle and weld them in the tube? I have three 14" wheels from another trailer I have also. I pretty good at fabricating stuff my own stuff , seems simple and to the point.

[SouthwestOregon201]

Jason, I wanted all new material. Forty year old bearings and springs were not for me. I kept the original axle in case someone wanted to put the original axle and wheels back on, so they could fit the trailer in a standard garage.

The old axle was a square, solid, unit and probably would be fine with a sandblasting and fresh paint.

Dave Heffner
Oregon

[gunner12]

Thanks for the info Dave, If I wanted a wider rim what offset would you say I should get?