Ram 3.0L Diesel Experience

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Radar1

You might want to ask Reace at Escape trailers. They pulled 2 Escapes down from BC to the Casita rally in Bandera TX last year, one pulled by a Ford Ecoboost and the other by the Ram ecodiesel. If I recall correctly, they got about 12.5 MPG with the ecoboost and about 19 with the Ram ecodiesel.

I would question those numbers, specifically 12.5 MPG with the EcoBoost. I have the heaviest trailer Escape makes and I get 14 MPG with mine.


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[Bob Miller]

Just driving 55 or 65 can make that much difference.

[MAP 56]

my fuel burn rate on mine was at 118 to 120 km about 70 mph lots of big roads .never tried 55 60 mph cruse speed limit is 110.to 120 in places in BC

[cpaharley2008]

Just remember, a diesel can be repaired just about anywhere, there are more diesel truck shops open 24 hours than there are dealers.

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Just remember, a diesel can be repaired just about anywhere, there are more diesel truck shops open 24 hours than there are dealers.

I admit to knowing nothing about diesels nor their need for repair other than the experience of friends who own them. I think one of the concerns of the OP is that the diesel may need to be repaired. From what I hear the repairs can be expensive.

We have been 500 miles on dirt roads and a 13 hour ferry from the nearest possibility of Honda parts, where no place is open 24 hours and felt confident that the Honda would not need service.

To me it's not simply the raw power of the engine, or the mpg, or trade in value, or the ability to find a repair shop or how the ride makes me feel, (the awe factor).

Though we travel a lot towing a trailer, towing represents a minority of the miles driven, since it's our only vehicle we seek comfort for general driving around. Comfort is not simply seating comfort but general driveability comfort. (I know Ginny would not like driving to the store in a big diesel truck.)

We seek the ability to tow our trailer anywhere we go including long mountain grades, dusty dirt roads and those stubborn 18% gravel grades. It doesn't matter to us that we weren't the fastest rig up the hill.

We seek low cost per mile driven, that includes fuel, repairs and purchase price. We rarely bring our vehicles to dealers for regular maintenance using speedy oil changes.

We don't worry too much about resale, we plan to keep the car for lot's of miles and usually give them away to family still running well.

Of course I have lots of Escapee friends with big expensive ($50,000) diesels but most are towing 17,000 pound 5th wheels, and not fiberglass trailers.

[Bob Miller]

I agree with Norm. Life is to short to have to worry about where you can go, based on what service facilities may not be available.


A member on a Toyota Motorhome site recently cruised into a truck stop garage in Las Cruses, NM, and reported a "Knocking Sound" in the motor. After looking things over, the diesel mechanics therein pronounced that it had a bad "main bearing" and would need a complete rebuild, which they could do, before she could go on.


After posting the symptoms on the Toyota Campers group she carefully nursed her vehicle to a local independent Toyota mechanic for a 2nd opinion. Results; $48 for a new alternator bracket that had broken.


So much for truck stop garages. For the most part they aren't interested in what they call "Four Wheelers" and don't stock parts for them either.

[cpaharley2008]

Diesels have fewer moving parts, are built stronger thus will last at least twice as long as gas engines. Diesels are more efficient as well as environmentally friendlier.

[Bob Miller]

Looks to me like 4 cycle diesels have the same numbers of moving parts in the basic engine as do gas engines. What's different?

[redbarron55]

The main advantages Diesels might have are the lubricating quality of the fuel itself and the ring to cylinder wall wear as well as the larger engines lower rpm at cruise.
The Diesel has a flatter torque curve and it is produced at the lower rpm.
Modern turbocharged gas engines now do well with Torque at lower rpm, but the EGTs tend to be higher.
While Diesels tend to be lower horsepower that torque curve thingy makes all the difference.
The Diesel pulls well at a lower rpm compared to a normally aspirated gasoline engine.
I have no experience with the 3.0 liter Fiat engine, but my 2.0 VW cheater pulls well.
Personally I agree with Norm in that I want a comfortable TV, reliable, and economical.
I don't particularly like driving trucks and the station wagon suits Connie and me.
There is not a lot of structural difference in the gas and Diesel VW engines since they are relatively light duty, but the 2009 has held up through nearly 240,000 miles and I expect it to keep on doing so.
The 2013 seems to be cut from the same cloth and looks like it will make a good TV as well.
As a TV heretic I have heard all of the arguments and don't suggest anyone else tow with one since it is so obviously unsuited.
I just hate to use more resources than necessary for the task.

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[AandB]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Diesels are more efficient as well as environmentally friendlier.

Just ask the Volkswagen engineers.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Diesels have fewer moving parts, are built stronger thus will last at least twice as long as gas engines. Diesels are more efficient as well as environmentally friendlier.

While diesels may last twice as long as gas engines, I have never worn out a gasoline engine in any vehicle I have owned in @ 50 years. Other components are likely to wear out before the engine, and ultimately a vehicle becomes a "money pit." Furthermore, by the time a vehicle has enough mileage that its engine is failing, I am ready for a newer model with all the new, nice to have innovations. I dislike the smell of diesel exhaust and I find diesels obnoxiously noisy. That's me, YMMV.


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[Bob Miller]

Hmmmm. 3 Million miles and NOT a Diesel


Man’s 3 Million Miles In Volvo Sets Record For Highest Mileage By A Single Driver In One Vehicle – Consumerist

[Andrew Gibbens]

I wonder if those discussing the longevity and/or simplicity of diesel engines are thinking of things like tractor engines.

Modern diesel car engines are not significantly less complex than modern gas car engines and in some cases are built using the same cylinder block. Sure they don't have ignitions (except for the glow plugs), but that's hardly rocket science these days.

I drive a diesel sports car (yes, they exist in Europe) and it's really only at idle that it is obviously a diesel. There is certainly no smell at all, even when the diesel particulate filter is being 'regenerated' (burnt clean).

[Jon in AZ]

When a VW Sportwagen pulls up beside me at a stoplight, I can rarely tell whether it is diesel or gas (by smell or sound) until the light changes and I see the TDi insignia on the back (and a slight residue of soot around the tailpipe). A lot has changed, just as modern 4-cylinder gas engines are far quieter and smoother than old ones.

Heavy-duty pickup truck diesels still seem to advertise their presence. I'll be interested to see how the new light-truck diesels compare, but I'd expect the 3.0L to be unobtrusive.

I'll have to agree that a well-maintained gas engine will last more than long enough for the useful life of most non-commercial vehicle applications. In terms of RV towing use, I think most people choose diesels for the performance characteristics and few reach the break-even point economically.

[honda03842]

I'm not against diesels.

I did everything I could with Honda to import one from England with no positive results. I considered a small VW but was concerned about VW reliability.

I did get a lot of input from the RedBarron55 and am thankful for his 'heretic' input, being a long recognized heretic on the site myself.

[Rob Outlaw]

The last time I looked at the 3.0 L diesel RAM 1500 the add on cost was another $3000.00 down from $4000.00 a few months before that. You don't have to be an account or a rocket scientist to pencil in the payback cost in miles and years to break even let alone see an actual ROI. And as one previous post indicated they had never worn out a gas engine, likewise neither have I and don't plan to either. By the time one has that many miles on a vehicle the thing has to be so worn out otherwise you wouldn't want to sit in it for more than an hour at a time. I don't know anyone making auto seats that are good for 300,000 miles or more. Its nice to discuss longevity of engines, but there is a point where other things come into play.

Don't get me wrong, not knocking the truck at all, the RAM 1500 is a very nice truck. Our son in law and daughter own one and there's a lot to like about them. But to invest in diesel my sentiments are you have to be driving a whole lot of miles per year to make it worth the while. I'm not talking about your average 12,000 to 15,000 miles per year either. While the price of diesel fuel has dropped in recent months its still more expensive than gas, then you also have to factor in the additional supplements needed for these newer diesels. And FWIW, every salesman on the showroom floor at RAM agreed, the savings just doesn't pencil in unless you are driving excessive miles per year.

I guess the final blow to me was viewing the video linked below. Regardless of what everyone thinks about the Ford F150 the bottom line is it pretty much ate the lunch of the RAM 1500 3.0L diesels on this towing test and that was from the 2.7L Eco-Boost not the larger 3.5L that I have and darn near did so to the much larger GMC engine at almost twice the size in displacement.

This is certainly not the only point to consider in choosing a tow vehicle by any measure but hard to discount either.

As for gas mileage, the last trip we took with our 3.5L EB was two week trip to the SW, mostly UT where steep mesa climbs and descents come one after the next with some in the 6-7% grade a few a bit steeper still. We averaged 14.5 MPG for the entire trip from MT to UT, CO, & AZ and never ran short of power on any of these hills, mesas, passes etc.

Video link below, hopefully this ads some help and value to the discussion.

Towing Battle | 2016 Ford F-150 Trucks Video | Ford.com

[Jack L]

Some guys think it's macho to have a diesel car. Back in the 70"s I was covering a multi state sales territory with a company provided gasoline engine car and fuel paid for by the company. Lots of my associates wanted diesel cars even though the company paid for fuel and a few diesels were provided on a trial basis which put a huge smile on the faces of the employees that got diesel cars but the smiles did not last too long. In a self serve fueling situation driver were constantly standing in diesel residue while buying fuel and tracking the mess into the car. All the employees that got diesel cars became anxious to get rid of them after a few months of euphoria wore off. Fortunately these were GM cars and the engines detonated at 25 to 40K miles and the company dumped them. I think that fuel stops for non commercial vehicles are cleaner today and many engine manufacturers make very sturdy engines but diesel sure isn't for everyone.

[Andrew Gibbens]

Here in Europe, diesel is now just another grade of fuel at the regular fuel pump. The only distinction is that you may see customers using the disposable plastic gloves available next to the pump, to avoid getting any diesel smell on their hands since, even with auto shut-off nozzles, somebody manages to get fuel on the diesel nozzle handle - how, I don't know.

[floyd]

Long stroke engines usually run at lower RPM than short stroke engines, but piston speed is higher. Car and light truck diesels are generally no more durable than gas engines designed for the same work. In fact, I recall several of them which were clearly inferior to their gasoline cousins.

Today's light duty diesels are fine, but I will stay with gasoline, at least for now. I might even regress to a gasoline powered 300CID I6 Ford, for reliability, longevity and economy. Its getting kinda hard to find one though,what with it being 20years out of production, but my vehicles average 20 years of age anyway.

[Bob Miller]

With compression ratios in the 16-18:1 range, diesel engines need a lot more block and component strength that gasoline burners, as GM learned the hard way.

Come to think of it, GM tends to learn a lot of things the hard way, but the descendants/reiterations of the 265-283 small block show that, eventually, they figure things out, even if it takes 50 years.