Shredded Tire - Lessons Learned

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Pam Garlow

... I always assumed I could jack my UH up with the same jack for my TV but I've never actually looked at everything..... I better review things so I know what to do.

Apparently what some people find is that even though they have tested themselves and their equipment by changing tires before the need arises, sometimes when the tires are destroyed and/or the wheel gets in soft ground, the trailer sits so low that they cant get the jack under the frame, even though it worked fine before. Sounds like it might be best to use a lower profile jack that will always fit under the frame, and carry some 4x4 wood blocks to raise it up for normal tire changes.

[Rzrbrn]

Thanks for posting. I had a blowout, changed the tire myself. My scissor jack barely fit under the frame and would not extend. I now have 2 bottle jacks (big and small) and a scissor jack, maybe I will add a floor jack.

Over the years I have found that I get flats in places that are inherently unsafe to change the tire. I do it but probably should not. Just gotta do what needs to be done and hope for the best. Too impatient to wait for AAA to show up....

[trainjunkie]

My Tundra came with a bottle jack from the factory, which I tested with my Bigfoot before I ever towed it anywhere. It worked just fine. Doesn't the 4Runner have one as well? Not sure why you'd need to carry a Harbor Freight bottle jack when the one from your TV should work fine.

[Tom 72]

Good advice John, This next is as much for your readers. I couldn't tell if the trailer tire had steel belts, maybe they were fabric. Steel belts prevail today. If the pressure is low, steel belts will flex and heat up quickly. It isn't hard for the tire to catch fire. A trailer fire �� could wreck a vacation. So checking tire pressure, or having valve stems that do, could pay. Over pressurization is not the answer.

[floyd]

It is actually at least as common for a tire to fail due to a road hazard as it is from a defect. We carry reflectors in the trailer but not in our cars... go figger.

There is a risk to everything, I have stopped for stranded motorists more times than I can count, compounding the risk and adding others, but I am not going to cease as long as the Boss instructs me to help.

[rdickens]

A while back, I posted that Scamp had just started using load range D tires (IIRC - on all their trailers).

There was recently a lengthy discussion about tire life (etc.) on the following threads:

Load Range D Tires on Scamps
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...mps-79240.html

and

Lug Nut Torque
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...que-79293.html

Although I'm no expert, trailer tires apparently start to lose strength
right from their manufacture date. After 3 years, they may have lost
one third of their original strength (load rating). So, rather than buying
spares and storing them, I guess that we should really only buy tires
just before we need them and buy the strongest ones that make
financial sense for our trailer's size and load? See the following:

Safely Maintaining Trailer Tires
http://www.discounttire.com/learn/trailer-tire-faqs

As mentioned, I'm no expert .... just passing along what I found out. YMMV.

Best of luck and safe travels to all!

Ray

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by rdickens

A while back, I posted that Scamp had just started using load range D tires (IIRC - on all their trailers).

Although I'm no expert, trailer tires apparently start to lose strength
right from their manufacture date. After 3 years, they may have lost
one third of their original strength (load rating). So, rather than buying
spares and storing them, I guess that we should really only buy tires
just before we need them and buy the strongest ones that make
financial sense for our trailer's size and load? See the following:

The tire conversation just goes on and on. In the beginning it seems no one though much about replacing them at a certain age. Then it seems 6 years became popular, now it's down to three and even being suggested to buy them right before needing them and that they may lose 1/3 of their strength in 3 years.

At this rate they soon won't be good enough for one camping trip!

I don't want to whip a dead horse here, but how many people feel the need to jettison their car or truck tires in three years? If not, why not?

Of course one blowout doesn't mean all tires are bad, or all of a certain design are bad, as it might just have been leaking air and overheated, etc.

[stude]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Your first problem is "there are no steelhead".
( that's been my sig for some 20 years on FF@ )

I will pick up a cheap vest.

:Glenn, Princess Auto has them, Army & Navy New West Carries them and cheap to, across the street from the A&M there is a work store on Columbia about a block or two down from them is another store that carries all that stuff.
Stude

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by JohnF

Hi,

Wanted to summarize a recent eventful experience in case others can learn something.

Was towing our 2012 13' Scamp up to the Brule River in WI for steelhead fly fishing a couple weeks ago and about 8:30pm at night, pitch black on a moonless night on I-94 the driver side tire decided to completely shred itself suddenly. I tow with a 2015 Toyota 4Runner and it wasn't as noticeable as I would have guessed so stay alert. I caught it within about 15 seconds of it happening.

Raining solid and about 39F out, of course.

The Scamp doesn't come with a jack, jack stand, or anything else you'll need in this situation, other than the actual spare tire on the rear. I did a big grand circle western US national park tour last fall (7000 miles over 5 weeks) so had all the right items I needed to repair it quickly - see the pictures below.

The safety triangles were critical in this situation. Those have nice sand filled counter weights on the bottom and I put them about 150, 400, and about 750 yard behind the scamp as self-preservation. I really didn't want to be picked off by a semi at 75 mph. Wished I had a reflective safety vest to toss on as well in hindsight.

I also bought some 3M safety reflective tape right after taking delivery on the Scamp that you see on the bumper. That really helps visibility at night from the rear as well.

Last tip is that I was about halfway off the shoulder to maximize distance between me and the traffic lane - which put the scamp at about a 10 degree angle I'd guess (not very much). But in my haste to get the bottle jack going, after it was extended about 5" up and the tire was off the ground, but right before I was about to slide in the jack stand for safety, the top of the jack slid off the frame, the trailer dropped, and the jack punched right through the floor of the camper! Fortunately it was in the very rear area so not critical (like under the water heater would have been!). But I'm now repairing that with fiberglass matting and epoxy resin and filler.

This happened because as I lifted the trailer, the angle increased towards the ditch and the top of the jack was no longer flush with the frame member. It eventually got extreme enough that it just slid right off to the side. Be careful and really continue to check that contact point throughout the entire jacking process. After about 5 pumps, I figured it was going well and got distracted monitoring traffic, ready to dive for the ditch if I needed to and that's when it happened.

Be sure you have the key to the fulton lug nut lock on the spare tire. Might come in handy...

The rubber shrapnel from this event cracked the PVC on the gray water tank right before the waste valve. So I've been having fun trying to get that unglued and various new pieces cemented back in without leaks. Finally achieved success today.

I just bought another spare tire rim from Scamp also. Now I have 2 complete sets of tires that I can swap between. For really long trips (like the 7000 miles I did last fall), I'll take the second spare with me as well.

Since this event, I've added a tire plug repair kit and a solid 12V air compressor (Viair 88P) to items I'll bring in the TV for long trips.
https://www.amazon.com/Viair-00088-8.../dp/B005ASY23I

I had checked tire pressures before the trip and both were topped off to 50 psi. But they were both factory tires from Oct, 2011 and had I'd guess about 10-12K miles on them, but quite a bit of tread left on them. I already had fresh replacements in my shed ready to mount, just didn't quite get the chance to swap them out before this steelhead trip. But of course, they are now!!

Keep on Scamping! Still loving the trailer.

But I am finally relocating the front shower pump to an intelligent spot so it isn't a magnet for shearing completely off for the coming season. Beyond me why Scamp doesn't do this from the factory (just stubborn apathy by them).

Glad you came through this experience ok. Thanks for the idea of the reflective vest and tape on the bumper. We have triangles and tire changing stuff plus Good Sam Road Service. But sometimes waiting an hour is not fun when you are in a dangerous place. All RV tires should be changed in 5-7 years depending on how you store your rig. If it is outside in the dirt or on concrete they dry rot sooner and you can't see it all the time. Then the tires should be changed sooner than 5-7 years. We keep ours on boards and rubber backed carpet squares in our garage so the tires don't rot so fast but last year after having tires for about 5-6 years we found a bubble on one of them. Tires still looked new and had about 80% tread left. Trailer tires seem to be made very cheaply. We also have a class C motorhome and once in another one we had a blow out on the passenger side inside dual which took out our black water tank and part of the tire came up into the rig under the fridge. We were on I-84 in Idaho on a curved bridge with semi's running at least 80MPH and constantly. Scary when it took an hour to peel the tire off of the backing plate with both tires off of one side and the RV rocking from the trucks. We learned not to use older tires also but we had traded our rig and still used it for one trip since the new one wasn't ready for us. Thankfully we came out ok too. Happy Travels with your new tires and repaired rig.

[Westcliffe01]

Perhaps this trend reflects the fact that trailer tires are no longer made in western countries or Japan anymore, or (my personal bet) perhaps it is that the trailer manufacturers simply buy the cheapest tires that they can possibly find (bias ply tires still seeming standard on new trailers and one can even buy trailers with used tires for a discount ????)

If experience from harbor freight and more recently, any big box store, is anything to go by, it seems that Chinese made tires are hard pressed to hold air for even 6 months and completely fall apart within about 2 years.... so if your trailer tire was not made in the US, Germany or Japan, then when replacing them, make sure you source from a supplier which is not made in China or Korea and the replacement set will no doubt give at least 6 years service and should show characteristic weather checking before they fail....

Originally Posted by Raspy

The tire conversation just goes on and on. In the beginning it seems no one though much about replacing them at a certain age. Then it seems 6 years became popular, now it's down to three and even being suggested to buy them right before needing them and that they may lose 1/3 of their strength in 3 years.



At this rate they soon won't be good enough for one camping trip!



I don't want to whip a dead horse here, but how many people feel the need to jettison their car or truck tires in three years? If not, why not?



Of course one blowout doesn't mean all tires are bad, or all of a certain design are bad, as it might just have been leaking air and overheated, etc.

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

Perhaps this trend reflects the fact that trailer tires are no longer made in western countries or Japan anymore, or (my personal bet) perhaps it is that the trailer manufacturers simply buy the cheapest tires that they can possibly find (bias ply tires still seeming standard on new trailers and one can even buy trailers with used tires for a discount ????)

If experience from harbor freight and more recently, any big box store, is anything to go by, it seems that Chinese made tires are hard pressed to hold air for even 6 months and completely fall apart within about 2 years.... so if your trailer tire was not made in the US, Germany or Japan, then when replacing them, make sure you source from a supplier which is not made in China or Korea and the replacement set will no doubt give at least 6 years service and should show characteristic weather checking before they fail....

I buy my tires from a good reputable tire store only. I don't buy the mounted ones on rims. I don't know if you can find trailer tires from any place except China or another similar country. This is no doubt why they don't last very long. Car tires are made better in the US and are used daily where tires on trailers sit and go bad sitting.

[Glenn Baglo]

I presume that information on tires came from the internet, where bogus information constantly circulates without proper attribution.
I ran Goodyear Marathons for eight years on my Escape ( that's what it came with ). Goodyear raised the price and now Escape uses Carlisle. Both are radial tires. Neither has caused me any problems.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I presume that information on tires came from the internet, where bogus information constantly circulates without proper attribution.
I ran Goodyear Marathons for eight years on my Escape ( that's what it came with ). Goodyear raised the price and now Escape uses Carlisle. Both are radial tires. Neither has caused me any problems.

Glen,

Are you recommending that nobody change their tires for at least eight years?

Your comment that "information on tires came from the internet, where bogus information constantly circulates without proper attribution" came from you, on the internet. Hmmm. It seems to have some truth and some bias to it, so you can only hope to throw your comments into the mix on an equal basis with all others. I have a bias in the other direction and think trailer tires should not be trusted, even though I have only had a few failures with them. So, I'll throw my comments in to the mix too. I just don't want to trust possibly poor tires to many hot highway miles and some rocky trails, while supporting my Ollie. And I know that trailer manufactures, in general, are watching costs as closely as possible. Just because they recommend something doesn't mean I'll do it.

To be fair I have a set of load range E bias ST tires that date from 1987. I still use them on my utility trailer to haul cars and my tractor occasionally. Every trip I take it easy and carry two spares, but they continue to work.

As far as foreign manufacture being the problem, I'm not so sure. If a tire, says Goodyear on it and is DOT approved, it must meet a certain standard and an American Company is guaranteeing it. They are just having it made where costs are lower. Could it really be that tires can be made extremely poorly and continue to be sold without liability? Are DOT standards extremely low? Or have we come to the point where the manufacturers recommend throwing them away after three years just to get off the hook in case of a failure? Or are they all really excellent tires and it's just user error that leads to failures.

I really wish the tire wars could be settled to everyones satisfaction, but there are too many factors to consider when coming to a conclusion. Throwing them away after only three years is just not gonna happen with me.

There. Now I've presented my view on the internet without attribution.

[redbarron55]

The Chinese can make good things, bad things and everything in between,'They have a different outlook on quality and will deliver the worst product the customer will accept.
It is all a matter of specifications and quality control from the "distributor" who sells them in this country to the final customer.
If the Chinese manufacturer is not held to account and the product tested then you get just the worst you will stand, kinda like everywhere else.
A combination of poor quality control and running close to the ratings leads to problems.
Personally I modified my trailer from 13 inch 4 lug wheels to 15 inch 5 lug wheels to get more headroom from actual weight and tire speed to the rating of the tire.
Hopefully a little more margin of safety will hep the reliability of not too reliable tires.
The 205-14/85 tires (I think ) are rated 1750 each for a gross of 3500 lbs.
My much modified Scamp weighs about 2900 gross lb with a 3000 lb rated axle.
I had the axle made for the projected eight of the axle for a smoother ride which also makes the shock load on the tires less as well.
But... who knows when the Rubber molecules]or more likely the cords will part company? Personally I think a blowout is as likely to be damaged cords from a pot hole or curb as anything else.
Well good luck o everybody with what tire you choose to run...

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I presume that information on tires came from the internet, where bogus information constantly circulates without proper attribution.
I ran Goodyear Marathons for eight years on my Escape ( that's what it came with ). Goodyear raised the price and now Escape uses Carlisle. Both are radial tires. Neither has caused me any problems.

No the information I gave did not come from the internet. It came from personal use and a lot of others in Trailer Life Magazine. What size do you use? We use 14 inch and they are the ones giving people problems. Next time I need tires I will go to 15 inch. They are more readily available and have much better ratings.

[JohnF]

Good discussion. Couple of points (or grenades depending on your viewpoint):

1. It is absolutely ridiculous that the trailer industry has abysmal bearing headaches. This is a solved problem in cars and trucks (I've gone well over 100K miles without any issues or repacking in my last 3 vehicles). Why isn't some manufacturer creating a competitive differentiator on safety without maintenance hassle and offering equivalent car-level reliability? Hello Escape? ParkLiner? Bueller?

If your Toyota dealer said you need to repack your wheel bearings at least annually and measure hub temperature all the time, you'd conclude they're crazy and shop somewhere else.

Why the #$#$ does the trailer industry/consumers sustain this?

Is it some ego trip that "hey, I'm a handy DIY person and love to get greasy every 6 months" sense of accomplishment?


2. Same for tires. First manufacturer that consistently uses car and truck reliable tire sizes and quality has my next dollar. Would you put up with throwing away your car tires every 3-5 years even with only 10-15K miles on them? Would you expect a flat or explosive blowout every few years? Getting out of the size of tire where the only suppliers are complete crap is the answer. The market will follow. I've never had a flat tire in 30 years of driving cars and put on about 15-20K miles annually.


3. Makes me want to start a trailer company for those with better things to do with their time than baby sit axles, bearings, tire life, etc.


4. Tires aren't always balanced - you need to ask for that when mounting trailer tires. My scamp tires from the factory weren't balanced. When I swapped out all rubber last week, they are now - and there are certainly noticeable weights on each side of the same rims that were not there before.

Google tells me balancing trailer tires is "complicated" and "controversial". Again, why??? Why don't they just use the same reliable technology you drive every day? You'd never consider not balancing your car or truck tires.


Anyway, life goes on. Sometimes I think, people learn "you have to do x" without bothering to ask "wait, why? I never have to do that over here...".

[Glenn Baglo]

All of these tire posts and previous threads were typed into laptops, computers, smartphones and tablets that are mostly or completely built from parts made in China.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by JohnF

Good discussion. Couple of points (or grenades depending on your viewpoint):

1. It is absolutely ridiculous that the trailer industry has abysmal bearing headaches. This is a solved problem in cars and trucks (I've gone well over 100K miles without any issues or repacking in my last 3 vehicles). Why isn't some manufacturer creating a competitive differentiator on safety without maintenance hassle and offering equivalent car-level reliability? Hello Escape? ParkLiner? Bueller?

If your Toyota dealer said you need to repack your wheel bearings at least annually and measure hub temperature all the time, you'd conclude they're crazy and shop somewhere else.

Why the #$#$ does the trailer industry/consumers sustain this?

Is it some ego trip that "hey, I'm a handy DIY person and love to get greasy every 6 months" sense of accomplishment?


2. Same for tires. First manufacturer that consistently uses car and truck reliable tire sizes and quality has my next dollar. Would you put up with throwing away your car tires every 3-5 years even with only 10-15K miles on them? Would you expect a flat or explosive blowout every few years? Getting out of the size of tire where the only suppliers are complete crap is the answer. The market will follow. I've never had a flat tire in 30 years of driving cars and put on about 15-20K miles annually.


3. Makes me want to start a trailer company for those with better things to do with their time than baby sit axles, bearings, tire life, etc.


4. Tires aren't always balanced - you need to ask for that when mounting trailer tires. My scamp tires from the factory weren't balanced. When I swapped out all rubber last week, they are now - and there are certainly noticeable weights on each side of the same rims that were not there before.

Google tells me balancing trailer tires is "complicated" and "controversial". Again, why??? Why don't they just use the same reliable technology you drive every day? You'd never consider not balancing your car or truck tires.


Anyway, life goes on. Sometimes I think, people learn "you have to do x" without bothering to ask "wait, why? I never have to do that over here...".

All excellent points and I agree completely. So many folks seem to stubbornly resist the notion that common ST tires are poor quality. "it's just bogus information from the internet" etc.

I've been asking why people are willing to throw away trailer tires at 3 years but would never consider it for car or truck tires.

Some of it though, has to be a progression of fear. If 6 years is as long as you should keep them, maybe five years is better, etc, etc. Maybe 30,000 mile greasing is OK, but maybe 20,000 is better, etc etc. Next thing you know tires and bearings are only good for one trip and everyone accepts it.

BTW, Oliver installs LT tires from the factory on their trailers. If they wouldn't have I would have.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

All of these tire posts and previous threads were typed into laptops, computers, smartphones and tablets that are mostly or completely built from parts made in China.

Oh that's just internet hype. All bogus. Can't be true.

Or, is that why laptops get thrown away in three years? Or is that proof that China makes good products if asked to do so?

[Borrego Dave]

John F & Raspy, good posts .