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Old 07-04-2014, 07:42 AM   #61
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Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
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Eric, We weigh our tongue a few time a year and it's always in the 190-200 lb range. I don't expect that to change.

As to loading the Odyssey we try to keep anything heavy between the tow vehicle axles . The reality is that we don't carry a lot in the tow vehicle and it's always just the two of us. I think the Odyssey will be just fine.

We usually disconnect most nights when traveling. One of the nice attributes of the Odyssey is that it's relatively easy to access the rear of the van from the inside, particularly in the base model.
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Old 07-04-2014, 03:38 PM   #62
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You really won't have to watch the hitch weight closely any more, though. Let 'er climb to a whopping 250 lbs if you like, and nothing bad will happen. I bet you will come to enjoy that.
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:59 PM   #63
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Hey Norm, when are you getting your new Oddy? If you already answered this I apologize. I have family in town for 2 weeks so my internet time is quick and limited to skimming, LOL.

Melissa
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Old 07-05-2014, 02:16 PM   #64
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Melissa,

We plan to head to Florida for a few days and will purchase in late July/early August.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:16 PM   #65
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Melissa,

We plan to head to Florida for a few days and will purchase in late July/early August.
Norm,
This information is worth what you paid for it! Ha! By doing a little research on the web, it appears that the best time to buy a new vehicle is just between Thanksgiving and Christmas. But not on a Saturday. They say that the end of the month is best. Due to the fact that the car dealers are trying to meet their sales goals! Also, they say don't accept their first offer, be prepared to walk again once or twice. I wish you the best of luck in getting the best deal possible! The money you safe can buy lots of fuel!!!!! ;-)
Take care!
Carl
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:11 PM   #66
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Distance to axle.

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Originally Posted by War Eagle View Post
It looks like it could change weight distribution on the axles of the tow vehicle somewhat (shift even more of the weight to the rear axle of the TV which acts like a lever fulcrum unless one uses a weight-distributing hitch?), but I've seen longer-than-normal hitch bars that move the ball about 4" back, further away from the TV's bumper. But if you only need a couple inches more clearance to raise the tailgate past the hitch, or whatever else the tailgate might be hitting on the tongue, it might be worth checking into. Not sure what they are called. I think I remember seeing one in the accessory showroom of a mom-and-pop business that sold and serviced utility trailers.
Dakr,

We never try to move the ball further from the rear axle. We actually have an additional hole in our hitch bar to move the ball closer to the axle.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:51 PM   #67
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Norm,

After our discussion I noticed that on my '07 Odyssey and 13' Scamp, the tailgate barely misses the jack by less than an inch. I believe the 16' scamp sits a little higher and that would be an issue IF nothing else is different but obviously I have no idea where your front jack is, how high it is relative to mine, how your (likely newer) Odyssey's tailgate swings out, etc....

Just heads up that if it is important to you to open the tailgate while hooked up that you check it out with due care.

I hope you enjoy the Odyssey. We love it for our family and would do it again. If you need any pictures of my setup, let me know.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:11 PM   #68
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Norm... Last week the local Honda dealer displayed a real nice 2007 Oddy. Black with leather etc. (150,000klm) They were asking 14,500.

It was like new. Even the underneath showed no rust. The salesman went through the details and I could see us buying this one. Anyway got out on the highway for a test run and the tranny was not working right. Bummer.

We then tried out a loaded 2010 Honda Crosstour. Test drive went well and I liked it until it went into ECO mode. Cylinder deactivation. It ran rough, like it was starting to run out of gas. Something very wrong. Anyway got a little discouraged with our local Honda dealer and the problematic cars they were trying to pedal. Still looking though and would still buy a Honda if the right one presented itself.
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:13 PM   #69
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I have had vehicle hatches hit the tops of jacks before. The solution I settled on was to remove that jack and install a side-mount, swing-away jack. They require less cranking to get the job done, too.
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Old 07-09-2014, 01:37 PM   #70
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We have a side mounted swing-away jack. Should be OK

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Fiberglass RV mobile app
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:17 AM   #71
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Trailer: 2017 Scamp 16 Deluxe
Missouri
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I too really liked MC1's posts!
I often refer to our Scamp13 as a "miniature white Airstream".

Less aerodynamic shapes are far more affected as speed increases than more aerodynamic shapes. (For a while I didn't realize the importance of the shape of a trailer - including both the front and back sides of a trailer as well as the rounded corners).

Barnaby Wainfan writes a regular "Wind Tunnel" column in issues of Kitplanes magazine. In the June 2013 issue of KitPlanes, Barnaby's column was entitled "The Zen of Drag Reduction".
(Barnaby Wainfan is a principal aerodynamics engineer for Northrop Grumman's Advanced Design organization.)

Barnaby suggests not mounting anything on the outside of an airplane (in our case, our trailers) that doesn't really need to be there ... especially in the slipstream. He also pointed out the drag caused by cylindrical shapes (propane bottles, stinky-slinky tubes, gray water dump tubes, etc.) on drag and suggests putting more aerodynamic fairings around some of those things.

Also, the flat "plates" on parts of our trailer frames and the flatter front and back areas of some of our trailers can be a significant drag source. (Some trailers on 18-wheelers are starting to use something called a TrailerTail, by ATDynamics - atdynamics.com/trailertail_benefits.htm , to reduce the drag from the flat back sides of the trailers.)

I suppose this is probably more information than anybody really wanted to know and, as always - YMMV )

I guess the moral of the story might be ... either keep the speed down, clean up the drag, or use more horsepower and burn more fuel. The choice is ours.

Safe and happy travels to all,

Ray
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:35 AM   #72
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Ray, I also like MC1's posts. He often looks beyond the often repeated, rote answer.

As to Airsteams I find them interesting though I take an opposite view. To me they look like rough surfaced, aluminum fiberglass trailers. Just kidding.... they are nice trailers, just too expensive for me.

I like people who provide a technical view and I love information on just about any topic. For the reasons you described we do not have an roof top air conditioner or a max vent. It would be interesting to know the Cd of various trailers and how much they could be improved. Improvements have certainly been made in automobiles.
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Old 07-10-2014, 12:04 PM   #73
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Yeah, we don't want trailer towing to be a drag!
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Old 07-10-2014, 01:36 PM   #74
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Mike, You do have a sense of humor but I seriously wonder what the coefficient of drag of trailers are and how much it can be improved. I'll have to search and see if there's any information.

I believe the Prius is about 0.26 and the Odyssey we hope to buy is around 0.39. Discounting frontal area, that's about a 50% difference.
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Old 07-11-2014, 11:38 AM   #75
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Drag reduction is something to consider when purchasing or doing modifications but I'm not sure I would eliminate something useful such as fantastic fan because of drag. I would think about it if mounting solar on roof. Also worth considering for storage on tongue or rear bumper.

I would for example favor Norms storage containers under floor before a box on the rear bumper of the trailer because I would think the skirt of the trailer would make under floor storage have less drag.

Or want to provide a rounded cover if I was going to haul a generator on the outside of the camper. Give some weight to thin stuck on solar panels over thick square edged panels on brackets if mounted to roof.
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Old 07-11-2014, 12:00 PM   #76
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Roger,

I have both a rear bumper box and underneath storage. The rear bumper box is in the frontal area shadow of the trailer. I don't think it has much effect on the aerodynamics, but I'm no expert just going on how little the car effected the motorhome.

My major rear bumper box consideration is keeping the weight down so I don'rt effect the trailer.

Fantastic fans, though we don't have one are not too bad while the big max air vent covers are another matter as are roof top air conditioners.
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Old 07-11-2014, 12:08 PM   #77
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Roger,

I have both a rear bumper box and underneath storage. The rear bumper box is in the frontal area shadow of the trailer. I don't think it has much effect on the aerodynamics, but I'm no expert just going on how little the car effected the motorhome.

My major rear bumper box consideration is keeping the weight down so I don'rt effect the trailer.

Fantastic fans, though we don't have one are not too bad while the big max air vent covers are another matter as are roof top air conditioners.
Norm,
What do you mean about the big Max air vent covers and roof top air conditioners or another matter?
Do you think these reduce your gas mileage my very much?
Just wondering?
Carl
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Old 07-11-2014, 12:27 PM   #78
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The vent covers stick up higher so they have to create some drag, but they are also low and narrow (relative to the entire trailer's size), so their effect is minor IMO. Probably on the order of 1/10 of a mpg or something like that. The difference between, say, 48 square feet and 49 square feet of frontal area is not huge, about 2%.

In comparison, my KZ Escape had (not "has", because I sold it this morning) about 12%-13% more frontal area than a 16' Scamp, plus the KZ's shape would cause more airflow disturbance than the Scamp's. I believe I would get 15 mpg with a Scamp (the wider Burro 17' was yielding 14 mpg), but I was only getting 11 or so with the KZ.
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Old 07-11-2014, 12:54 PM   #79
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Roger,

I have both a rear bumper box and underneath storage. The rear bumper box is in the frontal area shadow of the trailer. I don't think it has much effect on the aerodynamics, but I'm no expert just going on how little the car effected the motorhome.

My major rear bumper box consideration is keeping the weight down so I don'rt effect the trailer.

Fantastic fans, though we don't have one are not too bad while the big max air vent covers are another matter as are roof top air conditioners.
I'm not sure how much any of these modifications would impact drag or fuel economy (the reason we care). I was just suggesting that it might be a factor to consider and weigh in deciding how to meet ones camping needs.

You full timing folks I'm guessing have more use and need of rear bumper storage than us weekend warrior types making short trips for a few days camping. Folks in the south doing those same short trips would be more willing to trade off wind drag to have larger roof top AC than myself living in a cooler climate.

Wind drag is just one more factor to consider, along with as you mentioned weight distribution.
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Old 07-11-2014, 01:14 PM   #80
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Roger,

I agree that there's a difference in the views of weekend campers and 'fulltime' campers. Weekend campers only stop once a weekend where as we travel we may stops every few days, and sometimes every day.

There are always choices to be made.
Also there's a big difference between gassing up for the weekend or gassing up for 300 days of travel. Even with the 20+ mpg that we get, 20,000 miles of towing represents about $4,000, or $400 a month, one of our biggest monthly expenses.

If we got 11 mpg as Mike described that would quickly jump to near $700-800 a month, approaching motor home range for fuel. Additionally, Mike, the addition of adornments is not simply a frontal area situation. Additions also generally increase the Cd, coefficient of drag, of the vehicle and air resistance for a constant speed increases by coefficient of drag and the frontal area.

I really wish there was some data on Cd for trailers. It would be interesting.
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