Sway bar & electric brakes needed in Utah with 13’ Scamp ? - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV
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Old 04-09-2018, 09:20 AM   #41
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Name: Marge
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Originally Posted by thrifty bill View Post
From what I have read, Honda HRV has zero tow rating...
I read the same thing.
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Old 04-09-2018, 03:38 PM   #42
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john my rabbit had the 1.8 diesel a rubber band might have been more powerful but it had a 4 speed stick which I could use to overcome a lot of things including using the transmission as brakes. it was sort of a fun car to drive I replaced it with a 98 vw new beetle with a 1.9 diesel I think still have the car 200k on it no trailer hitch! its also fun to drive but underpowered also.
oh don't take it too the stealership period!!!
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Old 04-09-2018, 03:43 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by k0wtz View Post
john my rabbit had the 1.8 diesel a rubber band might have been more powerful but it had a 4 speed stick which I could use to overcome a lot of things including using the transmission as brakes. it was sort of a fun car to drive I replaced it with a 98 vw new beetle with a 1.9 diesel I think still have the car 200k on it no trailer hitch! its also fun to drive but underpowered also.
oh don't take it too the stealership period!!!
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Old 04-09-2018, 03:51 PM   #44
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The problem with towing laws that say trailer brakes are required by stopping distance instead of trailer weight (like Utah), is that they're vague. The only way to determine if you're in compliance under Utah law is to do a braking test and measure actual stopping distance, rather than simply using the trailer weight as the determining factor.
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Old 04-09-2018, 06:07 PM   #45
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those early diesels were like 45 HP or something...

my rabbit was the 1984 Convertible, with the 1.8L gas "GTI" engine and short ratio 5 speed. it was only 90 HP but it was surprisingly zippy, and handled like a go-kart.
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Old 04-10-2018, 06:36 AM   #46
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Sway bar & electric brakes needed in Utah with 13’ Scamp ?

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Originally Posted by rbryan View Post
The problem with towing laws that say trailer brakes are required by stopping distance instead of trailer weight (like Utah), is that they're vague. The only way to determine if you're in compliance under Utah law is to do a braking test and measure actual stopping distance, rather than simply using the trailer weight as the determining factor.
You could argue that setting a single weight threshold for trailer brakes is very arbitrary. A 2000 pound trailer on the back of an F-350 is one thing, on the back of a Ford Escape quite another.

A performance-based standard makes sense in theory, but not so much from a practical compliance and enforcement perspective. It does leave the responsibility squarely on the owner. I only see enforcement happening after there's been an accident, and it would more likely involve a civil suit.

The J2807 tow testing standards include a stopping test. I'd guess the threshold for trailer brakes in the owner's manual provides guidance as to when a particular vehicle needs help from the trailer to stop based on that testing. That threshold is often lower than the threshold set by state law (and could also be used as the basis for a civil suit in an accident).

I wonder if Utah's performance standard is the same as J2807?

Of course, there are other reasons than stopping distance to have trailer brakes.
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Old 01-15-2022, 10:10 AM   #47
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brakes needed in Utah with a 13’ Scamp

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If the axle is original, it is a 1200# leading arm axle, likely without spindle plates to attach brakes. The axle would have a 1" spindle.
If the axle has been replaced and has the backing plates you should check the bearings for inner race diameter and mic the spindle itself before installing brakes.
Its really not a challenge because there are only 2 spindle sizes, the newer ones and the newer 2200 pound axles will have a 1-1/16" spindle.

If it has the original axle, you might find it more expedient to replace the entire assembly with a 2200# leading arm axle with brakes already installed.
It would be a direct fit plus conversion to a 7 pin RV plug.
I originally ordered my Scamp 2020 w/o brakes, then changed my mind and had them put on brakes at the factory. When I picked up my Scamp w/ brakes, they had put the axle with brake mountings on, put the brake controller in the front closet next to the door, added a breakaway switch onto the hitch and gave me a key fob that operated the controller remotely. I was all set except I had to change my 4 pin on my car to a 7 pin to connect with the 7 pin on the Scamp. (which Jon from Santa Cruz walked me through.). You can look up the price difference of their axle with brakes in the parts section of their website. (which also lists other ‘goodies’ you can order or add post receipt to your Scamp, Scamp covers, etc.) Call the Scamp service dept for advice and use your car dealer too, mine said I was OK with towing the Scamp, “your Volvo is a work horse.”
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Old 01-15-2022, 10:34 AM   #48
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I originally ordered my Scamp 2020 w/o brakes, then changed my mind and had them put on brakes at the factory. When I picked up my Scamp w/ brakes, they had put the axle with brake mountings on, put the brake controller in the front closet next to the door, added a breakaway switch onto the hitch and gave me a key fob that operated the controller remotely. I was all set except I had to change my 4 pin on my car to a 7 pin to connect with the 7 pin on the Scamp. (which Jon from Santa Cruz walked me through.). You can look up the price difference of their axle with brakes in the parts section of their website. (which also lists other ‘goodies’ you can order or add post receipt to your Scamp, Scamp covers, etc.) Call the Scamp service dept for advice and use your car dealer too, mine said I was OK with towing the Scamp, “your Volvo is a work horse.”

we have a 98 13f scamp have never needed a sway bar or brakes tugging with a 2015 ford edge 2.0. never drive faster than 55 no reason on vacation no hurry!
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Old 01-15-2022, 10:49 AM   #49
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brakes needed in Utah with 13’ Scamp.

I like to stay with traffic, so frequently am going in the 60 mph range, I’ve had some close calls with impatient people who pull up right ‘on my tail’ and then pass too close to my car and put on their brake lights when they get in front, which I took as a message for me to not go the 45-50 suggested by the U-Haul companies (I had only driven U-Hauls prior to buying the Scamp). so to avoid surprises, I ‘stay with the traffic.’ I also do the things you spoke about, foot off the accelerator when approaching a light, etc. But when advised by some that having brakes might come in handy, and being a person who likes to be prepared, (old Girl Scout), I got brakes. Might not need them, Volvo’s come with transmission coolers, but just in case…. (driving on highway which goes around Chicago during rush hour, sans Scamp even, was an experience !!) when I went to pick up the Scamp. Traffic was 70+. Came home another way to avoid the traffic but accidentally went through south Chicago, neighborhood streets, dark, scary, with Scamp.
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Old 01-15-2022, 01:53 PM   #50
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driving

i have driven large cities small town interstates state highways. always drive my 55 never a problem.


you can drive a scamp 70mph and still encounter problems my plan drive 55 be watchful. always in the right then!
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Old 01-15-2022, 09:31 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by MJo View Post
I originally ordered my Scamp 2020 w/o brakes, then changed my mind and had them put on brakes at the factory. When I picked up my Scamp w/ brakes, they had put the axle with brake mountings on, put the brake controller in the front closet next to the door, added a breakaway switch onto the hitch and gave me a key fob that operated the controller remotely. I was all set except I had to change my 4 pin on my car to a 7 pin to connect with the 7 pin on the Scamp. (which Jon from Santa Cruz walked me through.). You can look up the price difference of their axle with brakes in the parts section of their website. (which also lists other ‘goodies’ you can order or add post receipt to your Scamp, Scamp covers, etc.) Call the Scamp service dept for advice and use your car dealer too, mine said I was OK with towing the Scamp, “your Volvo is a work horse.”
Please note that my post was directed to the owner of a 1978 Scamp13.
As your post indicates, there have been lot of changes since then!
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Old 01-15-2022, 09:47 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
You could argue that setting a single weight threshold for trailer brakes is very arbitrary. A 2000 pound trailer on the back of an F-350 is one thing, on the back of a Ford Escape quite another.

A performance-based standard makes sense in theory, but not so much from a practical compliance and enforcement perspective. It does leave the responsibility squarely on the owner. I only see enforcement happening after there's been an accident, and it would more likely involve a civil suit.

The J2807 tow testing standards include a stopping test. I'd guess the threshold for trailer brakes in the owner's manual provides guidance as to when a particular vehicle needs help from the trailer to stop based on that testing. That threshold is often lower than the threshold set by state law (and could also be used as the basis for a civil suit in an accident).

I wonder if Utah's performance standard is the same as J2807?

Of course, there are other reasons than stopping distance to have trailer brakes.
Yes, I had read some posts about transmission problems, I had been advised to get a “tranny cooler” installed, and found out I had one already. I think that stress on the transmission, stopping and starting, was one reason I got brakes on the Scamp.
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Old 01-18-2022, 06:01 PM   #53
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Yes, I had read some posts about transmission problems, I had been advised to get a “tranny cooler” installed, and found out I had one already. I think that stress on the transmission, stopping and starting, was one reason I got brakes on the Scamp.
not all coolers are equal.

but, if your automatic transmission has a 'torque converter lockup', which nearly everything made in the last 20+ years has, then as long as you can keep the automatic happily locked up, there's much less stress on the fluid and it doesn't heat up. I drove my 2002 F250 with "Torque" on my phone linked to an OBDC-II bluetooth module reading and displaying a bunch of my engine stats, including the transmission gear, and torque converter clutch state, and learned to 'feel' when it was locked. In the specific case of my truck, if I'm cruising along in top gear, and come to a long grade, and don't manually downshift, when the engine starts to bog down on the grade and it forces a downshift while hard on the throttle, the TC will take a long time to lock or maybe even not lock at all. if I manually downshift /before/ the steep grade, it will lock up almost immediately and stay in that lower gear locked for the duration of the grade, which means no heat at all. the worst thing for the automatic is having it constantly shifting under heavy throttle (climbing said long steep grade while towing).
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