Sway Bars and Electric brakes

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I don't disagree with using a correctly sized WDH, but I'd like to see this warning that you claim Toyota claims damage might occur. Can you provide the source and a direct quote please? Would also be helpful to note the exact vehicles, model and year, to which the warning applies.

I think one will find that Toyota's approach to this, and many other questions, is to basically remain silent on the issue. They seem to believe there is less liability if they don't comment at all about parts that they don't actually manufacture.

Honda, on the other hand, will tell you when a vehicle should not be equipment with a WDH. Although their stated reasons are not directly related to vehicle construction. With a Toyota, you are left guessing.

EDIT: PS, I do see some after-market hitch receivers that are "Not rated for use with weight-distribution systems" and that is another consideration.

[redbarron55]

My point is that a WDH which is too high rated (meaning the bars too stiff) and do a couple of things.
1. If the TV is tilted up in front and the trailer is down the overly stiff springs can over load various components, frame, hitch, front springs, and trailer frame.
2. The other way the hitch ends up the WDH will completely unload and provide not distribution.
3. The stiffer the springs the more narrow the range of proper load distribution.
4. An undulating road (common in some areas of the country) might excite chassis reactions that could damage the tow vehicle, trailer. or hitch and could (possibly?) induce other handling problems.
I have no opinion on the WDH and unibody (My Town and Country requires one over 1800 lbs) some think that they are not allowed by some manufacturers (Honda and Toyota - possibly). Since I don't have an owner's manual I could not say with confidence, however others have.
My only real point is that the hitch and springs must be selected for the load and too heavy is not better.
From the Odyssey forum:
My 2014 Odyssey Owners' manual states:
A weight distributing hitch is not recommended for use with your vehicle.An improperly adjusted weight distributing hitch may reduce handling, stability, and
braking performance.

Are ther any thoughts on why Honda states this? I am buying a TrailManor trailer with a 2700lb dry weight. My tow guy thinks I should install the WDH anyway, saying "improperly adjusted" is the reason why they don't recommend it, and he would help me understand how to adjust it properly. He says that I should definately use WDH, since it would be safer overall. In reading the various discussions, I am tending to believe him.

Anyone run across this situation? I check the owners manual for Pilot and Ridgeline, and they have the same "not recommended for use with your vehicle" statement. The previous Ody (2010) did recommend a WDH when towling heavier loads
From the 2018 Toyota Sienna handbook P - 213:
I found no mention of WDH pro or con

The gross trailer weight must never exceed 3500 lb. (1585 kg).∗
● The gross combination weight must never exceed the GCWR
described below.
2WD models: 8900 lb. (4037 kg)∗
AWD models: 8990 lb. (4078 kg)∗
● The gross vehicle weight must
never exceed the GVWR indicated
on the Certification Label.
● The gross axle weight on each
axle must never exceed the
GAWR indicated on the Certification
Label.
● If the gross trailer weight is over the unbraked TWR, trailer service
brakes are required.
● If the gross trailer weight is over 2000 lbs. (907 kg), a sway control
device with sufficient capacity is required.

∗
: These models meet the tow-vehicle trailering requirement of SAE International
per SAE J2807.
The towing package is required.
Toyota does not recommend towing with this vehicle without the towing
package

[Glenn Baglo]

Imagine if Honda said, "Honda does not recommend the use of pneumatic tires. Improperly inflated tires may reduce handling, stability, and braking performance".

[Raspy]

"Not recommended" can mean so many things that it ends up meaning nothing. Except, possibly meaning "you're on your own, we're not responsible for what you do, and stop asking".

I know that overload springs, or air bags don't exactly compensate for weight distribution. However, with a Town and Country, with a front engine, and a relatively long wheelbase, and a relatively short rear overhang, and with a trailer that will only have about 300 lbs of tongue weight, it seems like overload springs would be all that's needed. 300 lbs is not very much.

[redbarron55]

Originally Posted by Raspy

"Not recommended" can mean so many things that it ends up meaning nothing. Except, possibly meaning "you're on your own, we're not responsible for what you do, and stop asking".

I know that overload springs, or air bags don't exactly compensate for weight distribution. However, with a Town and Country, with a front engine, and a relatively long wheelbase, and a relatively short rear overhang, and with a trailer that will only have about 300 lbs of tongue weight, it seems like overload springs would be all that's needed. 300 lbs is not very much.

Chrysler requires a WDH over 1800 lbs or maybe 180 lbs pin weight.
The towing package equipment includes load leveling rear shocks along with the heavy duty cooling etc with the Trailer module installed at the factory.
The factory hitch replaces the rear bumper bar to save adding as much weight as an aftermarket hitch would.

[John in Santa Cruz]

re toyota and WDH's, I know at least one generation of 4runner specifically said no WDH on their factory hitch, and apparently it had something to do with the rear subframe not being up to the torque involved. the 2002 ford towing guide says to use a WDH with trailers above 5000 lbs with the vehicles that have higher tow capacity (such as my f250).

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

re toyota and WDH's, I know at least one generation of 4runner specifically said no WDH on their factory hitch, and apparently it had something to do with the rear subframe not being up to the torque involved. the 2002 ford towing guide says to use a WDH with trailers above 5000 lbs with the vehicles that have higher tow capacity (such as my f250).

Another vague assertion with no source to back it up. I've read dozens of similar statements and none were sourced. Just people repeating something they have read.
If you have a Type II hitch receiver installed, you cannot use a WDH. If you have a Type III hitch receiver installed it may or may not be adequate for WDH. That's why you spec a Type III for WDH ( which is what I did for my RAV4 ).

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Another vague assertion with no source to back it up. I've read dozens of similar statements and none were sourced. Just people repeating something they have read.
If you have a Type II hitch receiver installed, you cannot use a WDH. If you have a Type III hitch receiver installed it may or may not be adequate for WDH. That's why you spec a Type III for WDH ( which is what I did for my RAV4 ).

2000 Toyota 4Runner Owners manual, page 191
https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/docu...U-1_edited.pdf

HITCHES

Use only a weight carrying hitch
designed for the total trailer weight.
Toyota does not recommend using a
weight distribution (load equalizing)
hitch

[Glenn Baglo]

Thank you.

Now, once again... I pestered Toyota Canada for some time, asking for clarification and was told they don't recommend a WDH because they don't have a relationship with an aftermarket manufacturer of a WDH and they don't make a receiver themselves for that application.

That's a lot different than "Toyota specifically said no WDH on their factory hitch". The reason they would say that is that their factory hitch receiver is not made for WDH, but other hitch manufacturers do make hitch receivers for WDH.

[Luc Riezebos]

Weighing in on brakes I would always recommend them. In Canada most province's go with the 2000 lbs gvw but because of the fact many people are towing with smaller vehicles further reading into the regs of some province's state that if the trailer weighs more than 40 % of the tug it must have brakes.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Thank you.

Now, once again... I pestered Toyota Canada for some time, asking for clarification and was told they don't recommend a WDH because they don't have a relationship with an aftermarket manufacturer of a WDH and they don't make a receiver themselves for that application.

yet, the manual for my 2008 Tacoma specifically says, on page 334,
https://cdn.dealereprocess.net/cdn/s...008-tacoma.pdf

We recommend you use a weight distributing
hitch when towing to keep your vehicle
level with the ground.

and various notes about not exceeding GAWR's and GCWR.

[Glenn Baglo]

Toyota just wants to keep us busy.

[redbarron55]

I find it interesting that Toyota wants you to remove the hitch between uses...

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

I find it interesting that Toyota wants you to remove the hitch between uses...

thats just common sense. a hitch sticking out is hazardous to pedestrian shins, and dangerous in a fender bender, or when parking

[redbarron55]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

thats just common sense. a hitch sticking out is hazardous to pedestrian shins, and dangerous in a fender bender, or when parking

No I mean remove the bolts, replace them with plugs and caulk the holes to keep water out, not just pull the drawbar.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

No I mean remove the bolts, replace them with plugs and caulk the holes to keep water out, not just pull the drawbar.

ah, i think thats specific to aftermarket hitches, they certainly can't expect you to remove their factory tow option

while the hitch package is an option on V6 tacomas in the 2008 timeframe, i'm not sure I've ever seen one that didn't have it

[Uplander]

Many of the statements by Toyota in reference to aftermarket equipment were written by lawyers to protect the company from lawsuits stemming from modifications by owners that could result in injury and death.

A little common sense goes a long way.
I have used a WDH on my factory installed receiver hitch on my Toyota
FJ Landcruiser without issue for about 8 years.

Happy Camping !

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Uplander

Many of the statements by Toyota in reference to aftermarket equipment were written by lawyers to protect the company from lawsuits stemming from modifications by owners that could result in injury and death.

A little common sense goes a long way.
I have used a WDH on my factory installed receiver hitch on my Toyota
FJ Landcruiser without issue for about 8 years.

Happy Camping !

Ah yes! But, do you tow the line?

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Ah yes! But, do you tow the line?

yeesh, which owners manual is that out of ?




omg, just found that in my 2008 tacoma owners manual too. wtf, toyota??!?

[Glenn Baglo]

It's from my 2008 Toyota RAV4 V6 Sport manual. If it's in the manual for current models, I'd take it up with the dealer. Ask why they put BS in the manual.