The New Subaru Ascent as a Tow Vehicle for a 17 foot Casita

[Casita Greg]

If your vehicle specs say that it can tow up to 5,000 lbs, then, with 15% of that trailer's weight as "tongue weight" on your receiver hitch, (and without anything else, such as other people, camping equipment, clothes, water, food, chairs, etc,) then you would be pushing the envelope and that is under ideal conditions. If you plan to travel anywhere that entails going up or down mountainous terrain, you'll really wish you had gone with a bigger tow vehicle. And really? only a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder engine? I have lawnmowers with bigger engines. To my thinking, this is just too "minimal" for me to ever say that I'd be comfortable with it as a tow vehicle. I have a 17' SD Casita, and I can tell you that my tongue weight is well over 450 pounds, so I would not recommend the Subaru as your tow vehicle.

[Tom 72]

So here's some numbers, hitch weight unverified.

Vehicle weight: 4,430. [varies]
Payload: 1,397 to 1,570 lbs
GVWR: 6,000 ? unverified
Tow rating: 5,000lb
Hitch: 500lb ? unverified

Here's a post from a Subaru forum:
"Between the two numbers, GCVWR and GVWR, the latter is the important number. W/in that GVWR, the max total load/haul capacity is 1500lbs (6000lbs minus 4500lbs). The important thing is the tongue load, which is about 500lbs max (quick calc), assuming 1st row is loaded w/ two adults.

If you haul 1500lbs, then your tongue load capacity is zero-lbs; no towing."

The forum goes on. They contend hitch weight is 500.

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating - Page 2 - Subaru Ascent Forum

[Glenn Baglo]

Why is Subaru so reluctant to post the max tongue weight?

[semievolved]

Originally Posted by Collin goes campin

Hi Debbie,
We're just fresh back from over 1,000 miles in a non-turbo 2017 Subaru Outback with the 4 cylinder and the CVT. Did over 5,000 miles last year with the same setup, which is to say that car towing 1,100 lb pop-up. Let me tell you, that thing is THE BEST!!! We run all over the Rockies, in tow, and keep up with / outrun the Tundra crowd all day long without a sweat. Across the plains, we get 22 mpg average with the cruise locked at 82 mph. The simulated paddle shifters give you wonderful engine-braking control on the long descents, and also serve well to remove the 'kick-down lag' that typical automatic transmissions have when you put the spurs to it.


If you'll kindly refer to this Cult of Subaru pamphlet, you'll see that Subaru is a division of Fuji Heavy Industries and as such is one of the planet's most enduring manufacturers of all varieties of machinery. Their flat-4 engine design is in use all over the planet as one of the very most common engines used on things that have to be reliable and run constantly with absolutely minimal maintenance or failure: they power refrigeration on containerized cargo ships, they run bilge pumps on all kinds of ocean-going merchant vessels... Subaru continually does Research and Design, but their engine is so solid that their R&D goes into safety and fit-and-finish rather than perpetually re-designing the main engine like all other makers seem to perpetually do.


Lastly, there's no reason at all to buy the 6-cylinder unless you like to get 30% less m.p.g. to have a negligably faster run from 0-60. Keep the 4-cylinder in it's torque above 2,800 r.p.m. or so and you will have a 50-to-80 mp.h. acceleration that'll keep you moving with the fastest traffic.

It's nice you had sunch a good experience but towing an 1,100 lb trailer is a different animal from what she is proposing which will probably be pushing 3000 pounds. And, no offense, but IMP 5,000 is a mighty short period to evaluate long-term effects on your drive-train and engine. If you're pulling something that's 1/4 the rated limit, that sounds very reasonable but when people talk about towing something that will be pushing right up against the TV weight limit I just don't think that's a good idea for a lot of reasons.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by semievolved

It's nice you had sunch a good experience but towing an 1,100 lb trailer is a different animal from what she is proposing which will probably be pushing 3000 pounds. And, no offense, but IMP 5,000 is a mighty short period to evaluate long-term effects on your drive-train and engine. If you're pulling something that's 1/4 the rated limit, that sounds very reasonable but when people talk about towing something that will be pushing right up against the TV weight limit I just don't think that's a good idea for a lot of reasons.

👍👍👍👍. He lost me at 81 MPH

[Bobbie Mayer]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

If that is true, why can't we find the maximum tongue capacity anywhere?
And why are none of the other Subaru vehicles fully capable of towing ( all with very low tongue capacity )?
BTW, I owned a Subaru Loyale GL Wagon for 13 years and in my ignorance, towed a tent trailer ( no brakes ) with it.
Lucky to be here ( and so is the rest of the family ).

The others are capable of towing their rated tow capacity. Mine is listed for 2400 pounds, 200 lb tongue weight, does it just fine. I'm sure if you go look at the manual for the new Ascents you can find the tongue weights. Just because some aren't rated to tow much doesn't mean they shouldn't tow what they ARE rated for.

[Bobbie Mayer]

Page 391 of the manual found here: file:///Users/barbaram/Downloads/2019-subaru-ascent-112362.pdf

Tongue weight 500 lbs.

[semievolved]

it would be nice to hear the auto engineers and marketing dept discuss tow ratings. typically, a rating would be the max and i would think you'd want to do that sparingly. in the toyos I've had ive occassionally pulled at max and i felt it put a tremendous strain on everything but nothing broke. i suspect the marketing department favors defining a really high tow rating and i wonder if that puts them at odds with engineers who usually like to have a considerable safety margin.

btw, the torque on that subaru is impressive 277 at 2k rpm. must be the turbo and direct injection that has it approaching diesel torques.

[Keith2000]

I tow with a 2.7l turbo and it feels better than any other engine I have towed with. The ten speed transmission certainly helps. The safe bet would have been the v8 with a proven tranny, but I like to see where technology can make life better. I wonder if the CVT can give a similar experience.

I hope this turns out to be a really solid rig by Subaru. If you like to be on the leading edge of things like this it may be a good experience. If you prefer to do things that are proven solid, I expect you wouldn’t be asking this question.

Ps: I doubt a day of towing puts near the stress on those turbos that a day of rallying does.

[steve dunham]

After checking out the Ascent on Subaru’s web page , I must say it looks like a great little SUV for towing the kids to soccer practice .

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Bobbie Mayer

The others are capable of towing their rated tow capacity. Mine is listed for 2400 pounds, 200 lb tongue weight, does it just fine. I'm sure if you go look at the manual for the new Ascents you can find the tongue weights. Just because some aren't rated to tow much doesn't mean they shouldn't tow what they ARE rated for.

What Glenn meant is the 200# tongue weight rating on your Forester means you are limited to a 2000# travel trailer- less than the 2400# rating- to maintain a minimum recommended 10% tongue weight. The Outback and Subaru's previous 3-row entry, the Tribeca, also share that limitation.

Good to know the Ascent's tongue weight rating is consistent with its tow rating. Thanks for looking that up, and I agree- I wouldn't write this vehicle off. But I'd wait a few years until some real-world towing data emerges. If I really wanted this vehicle now, I'd be inclined to choose a more conservative trailer, like a 16' Casita or Scamp.

With any of the vehicles in this class (5000/500# SUVs), you will have to pay attention to payload and hitch weight. Of course you can't pack the vehicle full and drop 400+ pounds on the hitch (also true of many light duty trucks, by the way, some of which actually have less payload than a 3-row crossover). My Pilot manual has a chart that shows how the ratings decrease as you add passengers and equivalent cargo.

With a Casita 17, WDH is probably warranted, since hitch weight will likely be more than 80% of the rating. I wonder what the Ascent's manual says about WDH?

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye

If you go to the spreadsheet version I keep at my website, you will find fairly current updates. It also allows sorting & filtering by make & size, etc. Since I don't carry a scale (other than a 500 pound limit tongue weight scale) I can't guarantee the accuracy the Frederick did, but with his permission I have kept the Trailer Weights going using user derived values.

I do keep that file on my computer and refer to it often, but it's been a while since I've updated it. I see there have been a few new entries since my last download. Still pretty thin on some models- Parkliner (1) and Lil Snoozy (0). Surprisingly few Scamp 13's, given their popularity.

I appreciate your commitment to maintaining this valuable database.

[Bobbie Mayer]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

What Glenn meant is the 200# tongue weight rating on your Forester means you are limited to a 2000# travel trailer- less than the 2400# rating- to maintain a minimum recommended 10% tongue weight. The Outback and Subaru's previous 3-row entry, the Tribeca, also share that limitation.

Well, Subaru recommends 8-13% but I do stick with 10% or more. Otherwise I don't think it handles well.

The 2400# also specifically does NOT include pulling on long hot uphill climbs- there you are limited to 1000#.

[Bobbie Mayer]

I'm looking for a vehicle that tows about 3000 but has at least a 300 lb tongue weight allowance. So not concerned with a lot of the arguments above. And I'm sure it will get tested for towing soon enough. I don't need one right away- doing fine with my '12 Forester.

The thing about the "get a truck" camp is that a lot of us do not have the option of a dedicated towing vehicle. It does have to serve as the everyday car as well. And although you could haul the kids to soccer (or take visiting children and grandchildren out for dinner without resorting to 2 cars) you aren't likely to be towing at the same time. Same for having luggage for 7 or 8 people. Not many of us camp in a 2-4 person trailer with 8 people.

Worth reading through the manual, though- on towing anyway- they make a point of loading front and back of the car equally. I could see that as somewhat of an issue when I travel alone as I don't weigh 500 lbs so 300 lbs tongue weight plus 100 lbs dogs and 100 lbs gear in the back would make it heavier in back. But I suspect dogs in the middle and gear towards the front of the cargo area would take care of it. (Carrying 1000 lbs in back could be more of an issue.)

Anyway- I have to see one as if it feels like a tank or drives like one towing will be a non-issue for me!

[steve dunham]

Since I have never driven a tank , I have no reference point
I have driven a 10 ton stake truck but that actually was a joy to drive
We have a 1/2 ton truck but it is not our designate tow vehicle
My only question about the towing with a Subaru is not
“ If” but “Why”
There are 100’s of proven tow vehicles on the market so why take the chance with an unproven newly released vehicle ?
I will admit when it comes to vehicles I am not brand loyal

[Gilda]

We used to be "brand loyal" to Subaru as we LOVED our Legacy sedan to tow our 13' Scamp. We had purchased it not knowing we would eventually tow. It towed great except that the tow hitch often had the annoying habit of scraping on curbs and bumps even without the ball! We just lived with it. This would have been the same issue with any sedan. This negative was a bit disconcerting since many FGRV dealers tout that you can tow with almost any vehicle, especially sedans!

Early this year we switched to the Mazda CX-5 when shopping for a new tow vehicle. We wanted to love the Subaru Crosstrek but there was much about it we did NOT love; visability, pick-up on hill, no additional safety features (granted Subaru is ranked high on safety, but it's nice to have the newer features). The Forester and Outback were out of our price-range.

In February, when we bought our Mazda, we had no idea that Subaru was going to release the Ascent. We have no regrets, though. We got the CX-5 at a good price, it has all the safety "bells and whistles" we want, can switch from automatic (our first automatic vehicle) to manual with a button, and is fun to drive "Zoom, Zoom." The reviews for the earlier models were mixed but the 2018 model has addressed those issues. (In our minds, it was worth it to get the later model) We had an after-market CURT hitch installed and the CX-5 tows like a dream.

While the CX-5 is probably not the tow vehicle for you, perhaps it is for others reading this thread.

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by FlyGuy

I towed a new 2010 17' Casita Spirit Deluxe with a 2004 Toyota Sienna minivan for two years without a problem (including trips over Continental Divides + a trip to Leadville, CO which is ~12,000' above sea level). I had ordered the Sienna with the factory tow package so, it was rated to tow 3500# (my Casita started at < 2,500#; fully loaded, it was < 3,000#). The concern I would have would be the Variable Speed Transmission (I have no idea how well a VST will stand up to the demands of towing). I would want the Subaru deal to put IN WRITING ON THE SALES CONTRACT that the particular Subaru you're buying IS suitable for towing up to whatever weight Subaru claims. That way, they can't ding you claiming you should NOT have been towing a trailer (you will NEED a Class 3 Weight Distributing hitch which I would have installed by the dealer). I would also, ASAP, get your rig "Smart Weighed" (an inexpensive procedure that gives you the EXACT weight at EACH tire of your rig. Escapees & RVSEF events often have this valuable service available. That way, you'll have PROOF that you did not exceed the tow weight limit.

My Casita was a WONDERFUL way to "test the waters" re RV lifestyle. I've since "graduated" to a Super-C RV (2015 Dynamax DX3-37RB ).

Minor correction - Leadville is at 10,000' (officially, 10,152') There are some reasonably close 12K mountains nearby, but most are not drivable except in late July & August and then with a 4 wheel with good ground clearance.

Glad you made it to Leadville, but I'd bet you were well over the tongue weight rating for the Sienna. I had friends that towed a Scamp 16 to Alaska & back with no problems, so I have no problem with it as a tow vehicle, but I'd keep within the rated limits.

[Gilda]

What is an RVSEF event and how do I find one?

[WaltP]

Originally Posted by Gilda

What is an RVSEF event and how do I find one?

I hadn't heard of that before so I googled it.
It's an event where they offer to weigh your RV. For trailers the cost is $60 and the events occur at various times in several states.

You can accomplish the same thing for much less at a nearby truck stop with a CAT scale for a lot less money. I've done it at a Pilot or Flying J and the cost has been $10 per weighing. A complete process would involve two weighings of the trailer, once attached to the TV with only the trailer wheels on the scale, and once unattached. The difference would be the tongue weight and the cost would likely be $20. A bit of a bother, but far less than travelling to an RVSEF location and paying three times as much for the same process.

Walt

[Gilda]

Brilliant! You "Googled" it! Why did I not think of that?


We have no truck weigh stations near us in the San Francisco Bay Area. I'll have to wait until our next trip. I have to say, I do love truck stops for their mini-marts and for people-watching. I do feel a bit intimidated though with my tiny Scamp being towed by a tiny vehicle. I find the people who work at truck stops to, generally, be very friendly and accommodating, though. I'll ask about a weigh-in next time I'm in a truck stop (as long as they don't think I want a personal weigh-in ).