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Old 11-24-2016, 07:00 AM   #1
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Name: Bat Dude
Trailer: Escape
Michigan
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To Sway or not to Sway...

I have never had an issue towing our 16' Scamp. When we pulled it away from Bakus the first time in Oct. 2014 the Scamp folks indicated most people do not need a sway bar.

We recently added a bike rack on the back of our Scamp that added +/- 80 lbs. to the back end. This is cantilevered far back of the axle. We headed south to escape Michigan winter as usual last week the sway as so bad that I had sphincter tightening syndrome. Every time we were over 60 MPH Whoa that was scary. Getting passed by 18 wheelers and having the Scamp begin rapidly arcing left and right 6" or more inches that was not pleasant!

Initially, it seemed triggered by very strong side winds out of the south as we headed east on one of the Interstates.

All of our clothes for long 4-month winter trips are in "milk crates" 3 for each of us that slide under the rear bed. Normally these are pulled forward about level with the fridge to balance the load.

We stopped along a rural road and pulled everything inside the Scamp far forward against the front bathroom door and well forward of the axle. The change was instant and our Scamp settled down to a normal towing experience.

I would estimate the clothes, dishes etc. we keep on the floor while towing likely do not add up to more than 70ish lbs. but whatever the weight is distribution was critical. I have stopped scanning the Interstates for Camping Worlds or other places to stop and have an anti-sway bar installed.

Phew! My forearms, shoulders etc. relaxed again.
So the moral of the story was keep weight forward and tongue weighted.

On this Turkey Day I am thankful for on the road lessons learned before something really bad happened.

As new Escapees members I may try to find a location that has the Smart Weigh program just to see how best to balance loads.

Hoping to meet more FBRV folks on the road this winter.

Cheers all,

Bat Dude
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Old 11-24-2016, 07:27 AM   #2
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Trailer: '04 Scamp 19D, TV:Tacoma 3.5L 4door, SB
Colorado
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...not to Sway...

Hi Dude,
This is a great post. You make several useful points. One is that some rigs may be very close to instability and the drivers may not realize it. Another is that it does not take much to correct the problem, and another is that you may or may not need another piece of hardware (such as a WDH) to fix the problem. I am not sure if you need to weigh the tongue and be exact to a pound, maybe it is enough to do it once and then learn how to estimate it manually. This could be another repeat of this hot topic here. I am myself glad I opted for the 5th wheel to avoid these problems.
Regards.
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Old 11-24-2016, 08:59 AM   #3
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Name: Norm and Ginny
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Florida
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Hi Bruce,

I don't believe in balancing but rather in properly placing the load. Heavy weights extended from the rear are at issue. I believe Floyd's solution to carrying bikes is better. I believe he has a bike rack over his tongue.

Even though we always have a light tongue we've never had a sway problem. We keep our weight low and centered.

Happy Thanksgiving. The Escapee Park in Bushnell, FL has a weighing system.

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Old 11-24-2016, 11:21 AM   #4
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Name: Ken
Trailer: Bigfoot 24B175CB
Michigan
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I have a Casita SD17 and a Hyundai SanteFe SUV. I installed the Harbor Freight aluminum storage rack into the rear bumper hitch. I then set a marine Dock Box onto the rack for additional storage for my outdoor items (chairs, grill, stove, BEER, etc.). I am probably maxed out on both tounge and axel weight for my SUV. I do have both the anti-sway bar and WDH. I put over 7,00o miles from MI to CA, OR and back with this rig and never did I have any swaying or whip lash action either on the plains with wind or through the mountains.

Actually, I checked with the Casita folks before installing the rack and dock box and they thought it may even help by tranfering some weight off of the tounge.

So that's my 2 cents for what that is worth.

Preparing for my first Snowbird trip to Padre Is., TX, St. George, UT and Woodland Park, CO, Jan.-March.

Happy Thanksgiving to All,
Ken
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Old 11-24-2016, 11:35 AM   #5
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Name: Steve and Carolyn
Trailer: Casita 17" SDX
California
Posts: 17
It is a balancing act--

Hi all--Our one axle light weight trailers are truly a teeter totter..
Ask my wife. We unhitched, chocked the wheels and hadn't put down
the stabilizers. She got into the camper and walked to the rear to get something near the rear bed. SURPRISE, Surprise.

Lots of noise and no damage. Every pound counts and where it is located in the TT.
The sway bar is safety equipment. It is a necessity.
Weight Distribution Hitch,a very nice expensive addition. In my opinion overkill. It makes for a lot of extra hookup/unhook work and weight.

For those that don't know the sway bar is a sandwich of a metal plate against brake material. You clamp the metal bar down.It is attached to a small ball added to your hitch and to your trailer. Need pix, send me a private email. Inexpensive safety equipment on those windy days.

Ever wonder why large tractor trailers do a wiggly hula when you are or they are passing? Is it to scare you?? No..They are breaking the vacuum that they are creating that could suck you into their rig.
They are moving such a large amount of volume of air out of the way and that air wants to move back and fill that void. You get to go for the ride when the air returns.
Happy holidays.

Steve and Carolyn
San Clemente, CA

"Little House on the Freeway"
"Interstate" every where else.
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Old 11-24-2016, 11:40 AM   #6
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Sway vs weight vs other stuff

Weight distribution is the key. Keep 10 - 15% of the total trailer weight on the hitch ball. Carry some heavy stuff in the front bathroom. Travel with an empty water tank if it is behind the axle.
Other factors that affect sway are a loose ball mount and distance of the hitch ball behind your TV bumper. And, if you tend to make too many steering corrections. Keep a steady hand on the wheel.
You may be able to take your ball mount out and drill another hole to move it as close in as possible. Add shims or Set Screws to tighten the mount in the receiver. And, check that the ball socket latch is snug on the ball.
A WDH and or Sway bar will add more dead weight. that goes against our desire for a light load so we get higher gas mileage.
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Old 11-24-2016, 12:27 PM   #7
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Trailer: G30 Elite Class C
British Columbia
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Swaying in the wind, Sure pays to know about tongue weight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BatDude View Post
I have never had an issue towing our 16' Scamp. When we pulled it away from Bakus the first time in Oct. 2014 the Scamp folks indicated most people do not need a sway bar.

We recently added a bike rack on the back of our Scamp that added +/- 80 lbs. to the back end. This is cantilevered far back of the axle. We headed south to escape Michigan winter as usual last week the sway as so bad that I had sphincter tightening syndrome. Every time we were over 60 MPH Whoa that was scary. Getting passed by 18 wheelers and having the Scamp begin rapidly arcing left and right 6" or more inches that was not pleasant!

Initially, it seemed triggered by very strong side winds out of the south as we headed east on one of the Interstates.

All of our clothes for long 4-month winter trips are in "milk crates" 3 for each of us that slide under the rear bed. Normally these are pulled forward about level with the fridge to balance the load.

We stopped along a rural road and pulled everything inside the Scamp far forward against the front bathroom door and well forward of the axle. The change was instant and our Scamp settled down to a normal towing experience.

I would estimate the clothes, dishes etc. we keep on the floor while towing likely do not add up to more than 70ish lbs. but whatever the weight is distribution was critical. I have stopped scanning the Interstates for Camping Worlds or other places to stop and have an anti-sway bar installed.

Phew! My forearms, shoulders etc. relaxed again.
So the moral of the story was keep weight forward and tongue weighted.

On this Turkey Day I am thankful for on the road lessons learned before something really bad happened.

As new Escapees members I may try to find a location that has the Smart Weigh program just to see how best to balance loads.

Hoping to meet more FBRV folks on the road this winter.

Cheers all,

Bat Dude
:I once had problem with not knowing about tongue weight towing a 17' Bigfoot, From Vancouver to Spokane I drove with white finger and other problems, so pulled into a RV dealer and installed Anti-Sway Bar along with a 1 hour lesson in tongue weight.
It really paid off, I switched to CLass A and now tow a Car behind, no more sway, and thankful we stopped at RV dealer.
Stude
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Old 11-24-2016, 02:54 PM   #8
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Nothing we tried fixed the sway on our Bigfoot Silver Cloud except adding a Propride. We had a weight distribution hitch put on by the RV place before we picked it up, but it still swayed. The first time a semi passed us on the way home, we were all over the place and absolutely terrified. Happily, Google that night offered some ideas of what to do, but after stopping at ProPride on our way to the Algonac rally and installing it, Kevin was driving with one hand and not even noticing when semis passed us.

CindyL
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Old 11-24-2016, 07:15 PM   #9
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Name: D. Jim
Trailer: Scamp
Manitoba
Posts: 74
I am a big fan of the anti-sway friction bar. It is light, easy to use and it saved my nerves. Yes to all the balance load things as well. The anti-sway is insurance that you will never regret.
Jim
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Old 11-24-2016, 09:01 PM   #10
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Name: James Y.
Trailer: Companion
Ohio
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Wiggly Hula?

Ever wonder why large tractor trailers do a wiggly hula when you are or they are passing? Is it to scare you?? No..They are breaking the vacuum that they are creating that could suck you into their rig.
They are moving such a large amount of volume of air out of the way and that air wants to move back and fill that void. You get to go for the ride when the air returns.
Happy holidays.

Steve and Carolyn
San Clemente, CA

"Little House on the Freeway"
"Interstate" every where else.[/QUOTE]

Where did you get this idea? From a former truck driver (me) we would do an intentional sway to see what is behind our truck.
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Old 11-24-2016, 09:16 PM   #11
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That would sure keep a trucker busy on some highways.
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Old 11-24-2016, 09:37 PM   #12
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Name: Harold
Trailer: Scamp
Pennsylvania
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Can you do a photo of your bike hitch on this site? I'd like to think about it for our 19.
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Old 11-25-2016, 08:57 AM   #13
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Trailer: '04 Scamp 19D, TV:Tacoma 3.5L 4door, SB
Colorado
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The only Wiggly Hula I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim G. - Ohio View Post
.....Ever wonder why large tractor trailers do a wiggly hula when you are or they are passing? Is it to scare you?? No..They are breaking the vacuum that they are creating that could suck you into their rig.....


Where did you get this idea? From a former truck driver (me) we would do an intentional sway to see what is behind our truck.
I am glad you mention this with the authority of a former truck driver. At the start of my towing time, I decided to try without installing extension mirrors, since Scamp is barely wider than my Tacoma. I have a clear view of the lanes on my left and right while in the middle of my lane. When I need to straddle a pothole or a small road kill, I move a couple of feet, as needed, still well within my lane. I also do the same, but slowly, if I want to know if someone is drafting behind me. That maneuver lets them know that I see them and they usually either drop back or pass and go ahead.
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Old 11-25-2016, 08:03 PM   #14
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I've only experienced serious sway once with my new trailer - but it was scary! I went to a smart weigh station and know that I've got good weight on the tongue and am not overweight overall.

Honda doesn't recommend a WDH/sway device - but I recently heard of the Hayes Sway Master. It uses gps to detect speed and a sensor to detect Sway and then applies the appropriate amount of breaking on the trailer alone. I'm intrigued - Does anyone have experience with this gizmo? I'm thinking it might be a good solution.
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Old 11-26-2016, 10:35 AM   #15
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Colorado
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I've seen a few videos of active sway control systems, and they were impressive. When and how those things are implemented and how widespread they become is a matter of conjecture as of now, I think. Would they be part of the TV tow package, or would they be part of the trailer? In any case, the left/right side brakes would have to be individually controlled, so there would have to be more wiring, more pins in the trailer connector, or another one added, at least.

This is an interesting problem, but no matter what, it will still be important to load the trailer properly, bringing as much of the mass to as close to the axle as possible. Lowering the moment of inertia of the trailer increases the resonant frequency of the swaying system, so that the stimulation frequency, related to speed, remains safely below that resonance.
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Old 11-26-2016, 11:52 AM   #16
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Trailer: Roamer 1
Smith Valley, Nevada
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Here is one unit you might be interested in. It's the Hayes Sway Master.

Electronic Trailer Sway Control | Hayes Towing Electronics
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Old 11-26-2016, 04:56 PM   #17
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Paul,

Are you sure the trailer brakes are operated separately on any sway controllers?
When a trailer brake is applied to one side only, the rear of the TV is pulled to that side, which points the TV slightly in the opposite direction. A right side trailer brake applied steers the TV to the left.

Seems to me that would cause instability. When a trailer begins to sway you can manually apply the trailer brakes together at the controller and straighten it out. I have a trailer with a brake that holds harder on one side and it definitely steers my truck.

Some have even commented that anti-sway hitches can conflict with the stability systems in modern trucks. Anderson Hitch recently responded to a comment about this by recommending the stability system in the truck be turned of if they conflictf, to which I seriously questioned them.
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Old 11-26-2016, 11:35 PM   #18
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Name: Ralph
Trailer: Scamp
Pennsylvania
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video demonstration of trailer sway

This is a great video demonstration of trailer sway. Watch and learn.
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Old 11-27-2016, 02:09 AM   #19
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Name: Michael
Trailer: Trail Cruiser
Alberta
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Sway is a indication that you have improper weight distribution. The towing capacity specified by the vehicle manufacturer is contingent upon proper weight distribution for the tow vehicle and the trailer. A positive tongue weight is always necessary. A negative tongue weight makes the trailer unstable. Improper distribution of the tongue weight on the tow vehicle make the tow vehicle unstable. Anti-sway friction bars, devices to selectively apply trailer brakes only mask the problem and are not safe to use. In an extreme situation you could find yourself in serious trouble.
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Old 11-27-2016, 06:26 AM   #20
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Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_L View Post
Sway is a indication that you have improper weight distribution. The towing capacity specified by the vehicle manufacturer is contingent upon proper weight distribution for the tow vehicle and the trailer. A positive tongue weight is always necessary. A negative tongue weight makes the trailer unstable. Improper distribution of the tongue weight on the tow vehicle make the tow vehicle unstable. Anti-sway friction bars, devices to selectively apply trailer brakes only mask the problem and are not safe to use. In an extreme situation you could find yourself in serious trouble.
Mike,

We have towed for 9 years with an 8% tongue weight traveling 7 months a year under all kinds of conditions. We have towed with and without an anti-sway bar and have never had a problem.

I admit that we rarely drive over 62 mph and mostly slower.

When we were newbies to towing a trailer a number of people said an anti-sway bar was a form of inexpensive insurance that's easy to install and easy to use.

Also as a newbie we read numerous articles about the importance of trailer and tow vehicle loading, suggesting that weight over the axle and low in the trailer, weight in front of the rear axle in the tow vehicle.

As well there are many little things one can do to improve towing and towability like tire pressures of all tires, distance from ball to rear axle, ....

As much as a heavy weight on the tongue helps prevent sway, it can also cover up poor load distribution.
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