Torsion Axle - Early Fail? - Fiberglass RV
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Old 03-16-2023, 01:19 PM   #1
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Name: Ed
Trailer: Scamp
Michigan
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Torsion Axle - Early Fail?

After returning to Michigan from Florida, I noticed that my 2020 16' Scamp was tilting to the right side in storage. I should mention that I winterized it in Florida (other than a small amount of anti-freeze, there are no liquids in any tanks [HWH, Fresh, Grey, Black]) and I removed the battery and propane tanks for storage. I should also mention that I did not notice any issue whilst camping for the month of February, although that could be because I leveled the rig at each campsite.
I crawled under with a bright light and measuring tape to see what I could see. The only (big only) thing I found was that the torsion arm on the right side was up ~14 degrees (1.5") as compared to the left side, which was basically flat at 0 degrees. Nothing was bent, no cracks or missing bolts.
Reading in the forums that a torsion axle can be expected to last 10-12 years, I'm surprised that mine (mfg date: 3/13/2020) appears to be failing. I'm guessing that I ran into some bad luck, but I thought I'd run it up the proverbial forum flagpole and see if anyone has any ideas. The axle is a Lippert 3,500 LB max.
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Old 03-16-2023, 03:56 PM   #2
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I can't think of any reason that the two arms would be that far out from each other. I think you're correct, you have an early axle failure.
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Old 03-16-2023, 08:41 PM   #3
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You do know that the "right" side is built lower than the left.
This is to accommodate the entrance door and the "lowered" floor.
Many folks own their trailers for years before they notice it.
This difference is part of the frame design as well as the "skirt" of the fiberglass.
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Old 03-17-2023, 07:47 AM   #4
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Floyd has a point. It can be really hard to get accurate measurements due to left-right differences in the frame and hard to find a perfectly level parking spot to determine whether there is a real tilt to the cabin floor. It’d be worth double checking carefully.

Side dinette layouts do tend to run heavy on the galley side. I wouldn’t think that alone would be enough to produce such a marked difference in the arm angles on such a new trailer, and you didn’t mention which layout you have. It could be a contributing factor, especially if loading during travel made any imbalance worse. Do you carry water when you travel?

Unfortunately, investigating left-right weight distribution requires a special scale that’s not easy to find. I’ve heard the Escapees Club offers a wheel-by-wheel weigh-in service at their events. A forum member used to bring one to rallies, but he has since retired from the job that gave him access to the scale. Others might have additional leads.

Again, I’d recommend further investigation before you throw money at a new axle. As long as nothing’s damaged or rubbing it’s perfectly safe to tow.

Scamp recommends storing the trailer with weight reduced on the axle. I lift the trailer and put regular auto jack stands under the frame just behind the axle whenever it’s going to sit for more than a few weeks.
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Old 03-17-2023, 10:30 AM   #5
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Umm...

He did say, "the torsion arm on the right side was up ~14 degrees (1.5") as compared to the left side, which was basically flat at 0 degrees"

Not sure how that could be anything but an axle failure.
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Old 03-17-2023, 01:27 PM   #6
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Name: Ed
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Thanks all for the advice and information. I really want to believe that the axle isn't failing... so I went back out and remeasured and took pictures. First, the Scamp is a 2020 (first half build) 16 ft layout 6 (side dinette, front bathroom). I always empty the freshwater and waste tanks when travelling. However, when travelling from State Park to State Park in Florida, I did not empty the HWH, which by my calculation would have added 48# of weight during those jaunts. I emptied everything prior to returning to Michigan from Florida (so just some residual HWH water and antifreeze in the cold water lines and pumps).

I remeasured the torsion arms at overall 9" and 6" pivot point to pivot point. From the outer pivot point to the bottom of the floor (not the drop floor, but outer wheel-well) of the Scamp on the right (door) side, I measured 8"; on the left, 9 5/8"; so I'm going with a 1 1/2" difference (at 33 degrees crawling around I figure I'm allowed 1/8"). Assuming the left torsion arm is at 0 degrees, that means the right is 14.5 degrees up. I did note that the left torsion arm appeared to be slightly angled down, but that may have been because I was upside down crawling under the trailer. At any rate the angle between the two is ~14.5 degrees. Just for kicks, I (roughly) measured the distance between the top of the fully inflated tires and the wheel wells. These were about 2" on the right side and 3 1/2" on the left, consistent with the arm measurements. Considering how a torsion axle works and that there are little pointed screw ends sticking down about 1/8" from the wheel well, 2" is a little scary to me.

At any rate, it seems that the real question is whether or not the torsion arm angles should be the approximately the same on each side of the axle. Consequently, I called Scamp, who graciously gave me the number of Lippert, who asked for a bunch of information I'm going to provide to them. I'm hoping they tell me (in the words of the late Douglas Adams) DON'T PANIC. I'll keep you posted.

(also, I attempted to upload pictures, but I don't see them, so not sure...)
Attached Thumbnails
TorsionArm_RightSide.jpg   TorsionArm_LeftSide.jpg  

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Old 03-17-2023, 01:47 PM   #7
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Seeing your pictures, I agree something doesn't look right, and it doesn't seem like you did anything unusual to exacerbate the normal slight curbside weight bias. I think the spec on the 16'ers is 22.5 degrees down, so any upward angle seems very wrong, especially unloaded. Apparently Scamp agrees, or they wouldn't have referred you to Lippert. Glad to hear they were both helpful.

Keep us posted.
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Old 03-17-2023, 02:31 PM   #8
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Thanks for the info... 22.5 down is another 2 1/4"... which means my right side is riding about 3 3/4 lower than it should (and closer to those pesky screw ends) ... I'm now thinking I was lucky to make it back from Florida Michigan without a problem. I'll keep you posted.
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Old 03-17-2023, 09:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed in St Joe View Post
Thanks for the info... 22.5 down is another 2 1/4"... which means my right side is riding about 3 3/4 lower than it should (and closer to those pesky screw ends) ... I'm now thinking I was lucky to make it back from Florida Michigan without a problem. I'll keep you posted.
Every torsion axle takes a "set" it the first several hundred miles, which results in a small loss of ride height. Usually just under an inch or so.
Plus the advertised axle angle is for an unloaded axle.
Different layouts often have more weight on one side than the other, so attention should be paid when loading the trailer to account for this minor difference as well.
All that being said, it is of course possible to have a damaged or defective axle at any age.
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Old 03-22-2023, 11:04 AM   #10
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Adjustment

Have you checked to see whether your torsion axle is adjustable? https://thecampingadvisor.com/how-to-adjust-a-torsion-axle/
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Old 03-22-2023, 03:25 PM   #11
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Name: Mike
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We had an axle failure as well on our 2016 19ft. I scaled it with all our travel stuff in and we were at 3200 lb, under the 3500 lb limit. This was the total trailer weight, not just what was on the axle after subtracting the weight on the hitch. It failed on a roughish gravel road. So I would scale your trailer and see what the weight is. We replaced ours with a 6000lb Dexter with 15 in wheels and 225/75 tires, a bit of an overkill but should never have an issue again. And should tow better with the bigger tires.
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Old 04-05-2023, 02:16 PM   #12
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Name: Ed
Trailer: Scamp
Michigan
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Torsion Axle Update

The fine people at Lippert determined that the axle is failing (has failed?). The manufacture design angle is "32D" as in 32 degrees down (this number is in the middle of a string on the axle sticker). Per the axle experts, the expectation is that the angle will relax about 6 degrees due to the "diamond" orientation of the axle itself (edge down). Add a bit of weight, and I think the 22 - 26 degree angle down is about right. The axles have an 11 year warranty and Lippert immediately agreed to provide a new axle. I'll give a shout out to them for standing behind their product. Let's face it, stuff happens in life and manufacturing; what really makes a difference is the response.

Oddly, my bigger problem has been finding someone to do the work. The job entails 8 bolts and a small welded plate that Scamp added in the middle for some reason. The Lippert engineer first suggested I do it myself (not an option, although I know some of you would have no problem). I called the guys who have been 'servicing' the Scamp (packing bearings, replaced tires) who wouldn't touch the job unless I bought the axle from them. Next I called the local large RV guy, who basically took the same stance but at least sent me on to another guy (in Elkhart IN). The third guy was more sympathetic, but couldn't do the job (inadequate lifting capabilities). So... I'm close to the USA epicenter of RV manufacturing, and no takers thus far. The third guy advised me to see if Lippert could do the work in Goshen IN, which is about 70 miles from me. Back to the good people at Lippert (I didn't know they were that close). I'm hoping to hear back from them soon to schedule the work.

I'll keep you posted.
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