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Old 02-22-2014, 09:48 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared J View Post
You understood correctly. They should never be twisted.
Thanks Jared glad to hear I am not the only one here who thought that. I worked in operations on deep sea vessels and I know the longshore personal considered it a no no to twist chain on ships cargo lifting frames as well.
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:48 PM   #22
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Contrary to Private Messages about to be received by folks in this thread :

Dead load lifting etc. is completely different from any scenario associated with safety chains.

Twisting to shorten is SOP on rental/fleet trailers that are towed by many different vehicles- as witness the following quote from U-Haul, presumably very expert in the field.

Quote:
Control slack by hooking the chain back to itself or by twisting the links to shorten chain.
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:01 PM   #23
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If I were towing an Army Tank on a flat bed behind my 1974 VW Thing then I would B worried about having the right safety chain but towing a fiberglass egg, I would trust what Francess found out from UHaul
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
Contrary to Private Messages about to be received by folks in this thread :

.
Sorry I didn't get one!
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:45 PM   #25
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I now know not to tow any ships behind my trailer.
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:39 PM   #26
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LOL While in the case of many of our trailers there may not be enough weight involved to create enough jerk force during the disconnect to be an issues in regards to chain strength.

But as I have no idea as to what the chains on my trailer are rated for in the first place and as its pretty well document that twisting chains will weaken their strength and its pretty simple to have them adjusted to the correct length, I figure its worth the minor inconvenience of getting them set to correct length.
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:52 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
........snippety snip snip.........
its pretty well document that twisting chains will weaken their strength
Now, you know we're not lettin' you get off without your showing the "well documentation" as applies to safety chain degradation/failure.

The schoolyard rules under which we operate here apply:

I showed you mine, now you have to show me yours! ...;
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:42 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
Now, you know we're not lettin' you get off without your showing the "well documentation" as applies to safety chain degradation/failure.

The schoolyard rules under which we operate here apply:

I showed you mine, now you have to show me yours! ...;
LOL Francesca you sure you really want to go here???

First off please note I used the word "weaken" not the others you mentioned

Here is a very quick look at what just a few companies that make chains have to say on the topic:

From the Peerless Industrial Group - Cautions and Warnings - Safety Check List: "Check #4 -Knots, Twists & Kinks Make sure chain is not twisted, knotted or kinked before lifting load. Slings should not be shortened with knots, bolts or other make-shift devices."

From Whitelaw Rigging and Fabrication: Allow Chain sling instructions. Reads in part: "General Usage - Certain factors in the use of lifting chain and attachments can be abusive and reduce the load that the chain or attachments can support. Some examples are twisting the chain......."

From Suncorstanless.com Chain Use : "Use slings with the proper reach (length). Never shorten a sling by knotting it, twisting, or with fasteners such as nuts and bolts. Lifting a load with twisted or knotted chains can impose loads in excess of rated capacity or spin the load dangerously."

If you google it I am sure you will find many other manufactures with the same advise and probable a more detailed explanation of the whys and how comes if you feel you require it.

Will leave the last word with both our governments: US Department of Labor - Safe Sling Use - under the section of Alloy Steel Chain Slings -Rigging Practices "Avoid twisting and kinking".


Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety: Materials Handling - Chain Safety - What you should avoid when using chain Slings "Do not shorten a chain with knots or by twisting other than by means of an integral chain clutch"

Hope thats school yard enough of an explanation for you
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:04 PM   #29
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Your apples to my oranges, Carol....different applications go by different rules.

Those references ALL relate to chains used for load lifting- already excluded from this discussion. What we're lookin' for here is some reference that disputes U-Haul's assertion that twisting to shorten is perfectly acceptable for safety chains on trailers.
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:50 PM   #30
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What's your term for what the safety chains are doing when supporting the tongue, if not lifting? They may not be raising the tongue, but they are lifting, in the sense that they are keeping it off the ground.
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:51 PM   #31
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Yup they do indeed refer to load lifting. As I always assumed that if the trailer disconnects the chains will be carry the tongue weight load, and that along with the fact the chains load rating is impacted by the angle of the chains to start with .....

As I said it probable doesnt mean a lot to many of the light weight trailers here, but its just my preference to physically shorten them... not suggesting that everyone has to follow my lead.
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:55 PM   #32
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The next time any of us intend to "LIFT" or "SLING" our camper, take note of the warnings:

From the Peerless Industrial Group - Cautions and Warnings - Safety Check List: "Check #4 -Knots, Twists & Kinks Make sure chain is not twisted, knotted or kinked before lifting load. Slings should not be shortened with knots, bolts or other make-shift devices."

From Whitelaw Rigging and Fabrication: Allow Chain sling instructions. Reads in part: "General Usage - Certain factors in the use of lifting chain and attachments can be abusive and reduce the load that the chain or attachments can support. Some examples are twisting the chain......."

From Suncorstanless.com Chain Use : "Use slings with the proper reach (length). Never shorten a sling by knotting it, twisting, or with fasteners such as nuts and bolts. Lifting a load with twisted or knotted chains can impose loads in excess of rated capacity or spin the load dangerously."
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:05 PM   #33
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A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Hopefully we can all agree on that.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:08 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Darwin Maring View Post
The next time any of us intend to "LIFT" or "SLING" our camper, take note of the warnings:

[]
I would sure hope that no one actually intends to have their trailer disconnect while driving along and have the full weight of the tongue load land in the sling the trailers safety chains form between the tug and the trailers hitch.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:44 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Darwin Maring View Post
The next time any of us intend to "LIFT" or "SLING" our camper, take note of the warnings:


But if simply hooking up to tow, feel free to twist to shorten, as recommended by the biggest trailer rental outfit in North America. This presumably with the full knowledge and approval of its Legions of Engineers, Lawyers, and Corporate Moneygrubbers frantic to avoid mishaps and of course any lawsuits that could arise therefrom.

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Old 02-22-2014, 11:11 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Roy in TO View Post
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Hopefully we can all agree on that.
LOL I suspect Roy we do but the real question is who really knows what the weakest link on their set up is?
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:58 AM   #37
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Let's take a look at the obvious here. If an accident involving a detached trailer happens if the chains are twisted the lawyers will find a way to blame twisting as part of the suit. On the other hand, if they are not twisted, they will find "an expert" to say they should have been. The problem is that the blame game has turned our legal system into a joke, e.g., put a cup of hot coffee between your legs, get burned, and it's someone else's fault. The point is that everyone has an opinion, yet in court it will not matter what Uhaul says or what the chain manufacturers say, it will be, for lack of a better term, a crap shoot. And finally, I have read a lot of borderline sarcastic responses on this thread and I'm not sure that sarcasm is helpful.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:14 AM   #38
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Tow safety chains on Scamp

"(3) Do not twist the safety chains to shorten their length"

http://www.fws.gov/policy/243fw5.html

Uhaul is the last place I would trust. Out of six rentals I've been involved with, only one didn't suffer from a severe lack of maintenance. I won't hook a uhaul trailer up to my vehicles, and I sure as hell won't drive one of their trucks.

Twisting a chain will always weaken it, why take the chance?
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:11 AM   #39
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There is a pretty simple way to shorten your chains up without cutting them should you use more than one tug and require longer chains than the other in order to get them to sling under the tongue in the event of a disconnect.

Purchase a turnbuckle and attach to the chain at the desired length and use the turn buckle to attach to the vehicle. Then add a carabiner to the loose end of the chain and clip it back onto the remaining chain so its not hanging down loose.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:49 AM   #40
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I used a bungee to hold up excess chain. Probably not an acceptable method to some, but worked for me. Like Carol says, more than one tow vehicle, 4 actually and 7 trailers.
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