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02-22-2014, 09:48 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared J
You understood correctly. They should never be twisted.
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Thanks Jared glad to hear I am not the only one here who thought that. I worked in operations on deep sea vessels and I know the longshore personal considered it a no no to twist chain on ships cargo lifting frames as well.
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02-22-2014, 12:48 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Contrary to Private Messages about to be received by folks in this thread :
Dead load lifting etc. is completely different from any scenario associated with safety chains.
Twisting to shorten is SOP on rental/fleet trailers that are towed by many different vehicles- as witness the following quote from U-Haul, presumably very expert in the field.
Quote:
Control slack by hooking the chain back to itself or by twisting the links to shorten chain.
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02-22-2014, 02:01 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2002 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 3,640
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If I were towing an Army Tank on a flat bed behind my 1974 VW Thing then I would B worried about having the right safety chain but towing a fiberglass egg, I would trust what Francess found out from UHaul
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02-22-2014, 02:44 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles
Contrary to Private Messages about to be received by folks in this thread :
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Sorry I didn't get one!
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02-22-2014, 03:45 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Trailer: U-Haul VT16
Posts: 982
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I now know not to tow any ships behind my trailer.
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02-22-2014, 05:39 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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LOL While in the case of many of our trailers there may not be enough weight involved to create enough jerk force during the disconnect to be an issues in regards to chain strength.
But as I have no idea as to what the chains on my trailer are rated for in the first place and as its pretty well document that twisting chains will weaken their strength and its pretty simple to have them adjusted to the correct length, I figure its worth the minor inconvenience of getting them set to correct length.
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02-22-2014, 05:52 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H
........snippety snip snip.........
its pretty well document that twisting chains will weaken their strength
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Now, you know we're not lettin' you get off without your showing the "well documentation" as applies to safety chain degradation/failure.
The schoolyard rules under which we operate here apply:
I showed you mine, now you have to show me yours! ...;
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02-22-2014, 06:42 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles
Now, you know we're not lettin' you get off without your showing the "well documentation" as applies to safety chain degradation/failure.
The schoolyard rules under which we operate here apply:
I showed you mine, now you have to show me yours! ...;
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LOL Francesca you sure you really want to go here???
First off please note I used the word "weaken" not the others you mentioned
Here is a very quick look at what just a few companies that make chains have to say on the topic:
From the Peerless Industrial Group - Cautions and Warnings - Safety Check List: "Check #4 -Knots, Twists & Kinks Make sure chain is not twisted, knotted or kinked before lifting load. Slings should not be shortened with knots, bolts or other make-shift devices."
From Whitelaw Rigging and Fabrication: Allow Chain sling instructions. Reads in part: "General Usage - Certain factors in the use of lifting chain and attachments can be abusive and reduce the load that the chain or attachments can support. Some examples are twisting the chain......."
From Suncorstanless.com Chain Use : "Use slings with the proper reach (length). Never shorten a sling by knotting it, twisting, or with fasteners such as nuts and bolts. Lifting a load with twisted or knotted chains can impose loads in excess of rated capacity or spin the load dangerously."
If you google it I am sure you will find many other manufactures with the same advise and probable a more detailed explanation of the whys and how comes if you feel you require it.
Will leave the last word with both our governments: US Department of Labor - Safe Sling Use - under the section of Alloy Steel Chain Slings -Rigging Practices "Avoid twisting and kinking".
Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety: Materials Handling - Chain Safety - What you should avoid when using chain Slings "Do not shorten a chain with knots or by twisting other than by means of an integral chain clutch"
Hope thats school yard enough of an explanation for you
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02-22-2014, 07:04 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Your apples to my oranges, Carol....different applications go by different rules.
Those references ALL relate to chains used for load lifting- already excluded from this discussion. What we're lookin' for here is some reference that disputes U-Haul's assertion that twisting to shorten is perfectly acceptable for safety chains on trailers.
__________________
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Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
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02-22-2014, 07:50 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
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What's your term for what the safety chains are doing when supporting the tongue, if not lifting? They may not be raising the tongue, but they are lifting, in the sense that they are keeping it off the ground.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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02-22-2014, 07:51 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Yup they do indeed refer to load lifting. As I always assumed that if the trailer disconnects the chains will be carry the tongue weight load, and that along with the fact the chains load rating is impacted by the angle of the chains to start with .....
As I said it probable doesnt mean a lot to many of the light weight trailers here, but its just my preference to physically shorten them... not suggesting that everyone has to follow my lead.
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02-22-2014, 07:55 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2002 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 3,640
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The next time any of us intend to "LIFT" or "SLING" our camper, take note of the warnings:
From the Peerless Industrial Group - Cautions and Warnings - Safety Check List: "Check #4 -Knots, Twists & Kinks Make sure chain is not twisted, knotted or kinked before lifting load. Slings should not be shortened with knots, bolts or other make-shift devices."
From Whitelaw Rigging and Fabrication: Allow Chain sling instructions. Reads in part: "General Usage - Certain factors in the use of lifting chain and attachments can be abusive and reduce the load that the chain or attachments can support. Some examples are twisting the chain......."
From Suncorstanless.com Chain Use : "Use slings with the proper reach (length). Never shorten a sling by knotting it, twisting, or with fasteners such as nuts and bolts. Lifting a load with twisted or knotted chains can impose loads in excess of rated capacity or spin the load dangerously."
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02-22-2014, 08:05 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1972 Boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Posts: 5,137
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A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Hopefully we can all agree on that.
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02-22-2014, 08:08 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin Maring
The next time any of us intend to "LIFT" or "SLING" our camper, take note of the warnings:
[]
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I would sure hope that no one actually intends to have their trailer disconnect while driving along and have the full weight of the tongue load land in the sling the trailers safety chains form between the tug and the trailers hitch.
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02-22-2014, 10:44 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin Maring
The next time any of us intend to "LIFT" or "SLING" our camper, take note of the warnings:
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But if simply hooking up to tow, feel free to twist to shorten, as recommended by the biggest trailer rental outfit in North America. This presumably with the full knowledge and approval of its Legions of Engineers, Lawyers, and Corporate Moneygrubbers frantic to avoid mishaps and of course any lawsuits that could arise therefrom.
__________________
............... ..................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
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02-22-2014, 11:11 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy in TO
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Hopefully we can all agree on that.
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LOL I suspect Roy we do but the real question is who really knows what the weakest link on their set up is?
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02-23-2014, 04:58 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Name: Carl
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA
Florida
Posts: 1,691
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Let's take a look at the obvious here. If an accident involving a detached trailer happens if the chains are twisted the lawyers will find a way to blame twisting as part of the suit. On the other hand, if they are not twisted, they will find "an expert" to say they should have been. The problem is that the blame game has turned our legal system into a joke, e.g., put a cup of hot coffee between your legs, get burned, and it's someone else's fault. The point is that everyone has an opinion, yet in court it will not matter what Uhaul says or what the chain manufacturers say, it will be, for lack of a better term, a crap shoot. And finally, I have read a lot of borderline sarcastic responses on this thread and I'm not sure that sarcasm is helpful.
__________________
What a long strange trip it’s been!
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02-23-2014, 07:14 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Name: Jared
Trailer: 1984 19' scamp
Kansas
Posts: 1,610
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Tow safety chains on Scamp
"(3) Do not twist the safety chains to shorten their length"
http://www.fws.gov/policy/243fw5.html
Uhaul is the last place I would trust. Out of six rentals I've been involved with, only one didn't suffer from a severe lack of maintenance. I won't hook a uhaul trailer up to my vehicles, and I sure as hell won't drive one of their trucks.
Twisting a chain will always weaken it, why take the chance?
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02-23-2014, 09:11 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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There is a pretty simple way to shorten your chains up without cutting them should you use more than one tug and require longer chains than the other in order to get them to sling under the tongue in the event of a disconnect.
Purchase a turnbuckle and attach to the chain at the desired length and use the turn buckle to attach to the vehicle. Then add a carabiner to the loose end of the chain and clip it back onto the remaining chain so its not hanging down loose.
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02-23-2014, 09:49 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Name: bob
Trailer: 1996 Casita 17 Spirit Deluxe; 1946 Modernistic teardrop
New York
Posts: 5,413
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I used a bungee to hold up excess chain. Probably not an acceptable method to some, but worked for me. Like Carol says, more than one tow vehicle, 4 actually and 7 trailers.
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