Tow Vehicle (mid-size PU) for 19' Scamp 5th wheel - Page 4 - Fiberglass RV
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Old 12-08-2018, 04:00 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Ottoscamp View Post
We picked up a used 19' Scamp 5th wheel using a '99 Chevy 1500 that we inherited. We already felt ambivalent about the truck, but now it needs unexpected work so we're looking for something else. We're partial to Japanese vehicles, and want a mid-size pickup. The Honda Ridgeline has a goofy bed (and Scamp does not approve of using them) and the Toyota Tacoma has a composite bed, which hitch manufacturers recommend against installing in. I know that some people do this, but it looks like it's pretty difficult to do it right, and my local RV/trailer repair guy is sticking to general hitch guidelines.

That leaves me with the Nissan Frontier, which I'm just starting to research.

Anyone out there have experience with any of these three models towing the 5th wheel with advice or recommendations? We would want a crew cab and ideally 4x4.
We pulled our 19 deluxe with a 91 4.3 v6 S10 for 10 years with no mechanical issues. Worked good in central states but unsuitable for the mountains. Current rig is a GMC Canyon V6, 4 door, long bed. Pulled to Grand Canyon, Yellowstone and back home 5700 miles at 17mpg. Pulled up Medicine Wheel in Big Horn National Forrest. The GMC is One Tough Truck.
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Old 12-08-2018, 04:15 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by nefldiver View Post
The Scamp 5th wheel ranges from 2000 to 2600 lb empty. With the usual assortment of junk people put in them you can easily go 500 lb more. Ridgeline, Colorado, and Tacomas towing capacity starts at 3500 or so pounds and goes up I assume with the V6 option. If I were pulling that much weight I would want a V8.
FWIW, my gen2 2008 tacoma access cab 4x4 4.0L V6 has 6500 lbs tow capacity, and with the assistance of airbags did OK towing a 4500 lb Escape across the country. our main complaint was the gas mileage, and the limited payload on the truck for carrying additional gear (rated at 1200 lb total payload including driver/passengers and tongue weight), that and my wife decided she didn't really want to learn to drive a stick again... her last stickshift car was in the mid 80s, so we ended up with a ford diesel longbed that can haul our entire world with us and not even break out into a sweat.
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Old 12-08-2018, 04:25 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
........and the limited payload on the truck for carrying additional gear (rated at 1200 lb total payload including driver/passengers and tongue weight).......
This is where Ford is currently the leader. An F150 with their heavy duty payload package (HDPP) can be had with up to 3,250 pound payload. Much more payload than is needed to pull a FG trailer, but really incredible. You do have to be careful, some fully loaded upper end F150s without the HDPP can have payload around 1,200 pounds. Saw a Nissan Titan with a Cummins diesel, nice truck! But the payload was only 1,300 pounds. They kind of missed the boat on that one.

I would expect the other US manufacturers to up their payload options in the next couple of years.

A four door truck with seating for 5 adults can come close to using up the entire payload.
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Old 12-08-2018, 04:55 PM   #64
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Yep, IMO payload should be at the top of any tow vehicle discussion. I was clueless and well into my second F150 before I even knew where to look for the rating. My truck only has 1440 lbs payload. Not many options but I might have been able to pick up another couple of hundred pounds if I'd thought to check. I certainly could have compared the weights of bed caps and liners, neither of which I did.
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:17 PM   #65
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For what it is worth I remember that Scamp themselves used or uses an older Ranger with the 3.0l V6 to deliver the 19er so..........
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:44 PM   #66
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Yep, IMO payload should be at the top of any tow vehicle discussion. I was clueless and well into my second F150 before I even knew where to look for the rating. My truck only has 1440 lbs payload. Not many options but I might have been able to pick up another couple of hundred pounds if I'd thought to check. I certainly could have compared the weights of bed caps and liners, neither of which I did.
To your premise...
A new Transit Connect with a normally aspirated 2.0L 4CYL automatic has a payload of 1570 pounds and a tow rating of 2000 pounds.

How does that compare to your F-150?
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Old 12-08-2018, 07:56 PM   #67
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Regarding payload;

Scamp fivers have a GVWR of 3500 pounds, so you would expect a pin weight between seven and eight hundred pounds.

Payload ratings are usually figured using a single 150 pound driver. But, since you, your wife, dogs, picnic basket, etc weigh more than that, you will have to add that additional weight to the pin weight to get your minimum requirement for truck payload.

Payload, rather than tow rating, is often the limiting factor when towing fifth wheel trailers.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:16 PM   #68
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To your premise...
A new Transit Connect with a normally aspirated 2.0L 4CYL automatic has a payload of 1570 pounds and a tow rating of 2000 pounds.

How does that compare to your F-150?
Sorry, missing your point. Certainly wouldn't want to tow anything with that....
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:23 PM   #69
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Sorry, missing your point. Certainly wouldn't want to tow anything with that....
It would be hard to miss the point...
You said "IMO payload should be at the top of any tow vehicle discussion".


So far I have towed my Scamp about 6000 miles with my 2.5L Transit Connect, in perfect comfort, with good performance and excellent economy... Think "inside the box"!
Still, even though my Transit Connect has a greater payload than your F-150, I would not consider it to be the F-150's equal or better for towing... at least not above the Connect's 2000 pound tow rating.


Therefore,I'm just saying I would not put payload at the top of every tow vehicle discussion.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:44 PM   #70
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Sorry, I'll try to make myself more clear. Tow capacity is readily available and generally the same among a line of vehicles. F150s, Transits, 4runners, etc. Easy to learn the tow capacity. Payload is often only shown on the specific vehicle door sticker. I couldn't find payload for my truck online, only a max. That is why it warrants discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if many here did not know the payload of their vehicles. Many people come here and ask about towing with marginal vehicles. All they know is that the tow rating is whatever. I'd say your particular vehicle is an anomaly. Heckuva payload but marginal tow rating.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:40 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ShelbyM View Post
Sorry, I'll try to make myself more clear. Tow capacity is readily available and generally the same among a line of vehicles. F150s, Transits, 4runners, etc. Easy to learn the tow capacity. Payload is often only shown on the specific vehicle door sticker. I couldn't find payload for my truck online, only a max. That is why it warrants discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if many here did not know the payload of their vehicles. Many people come here and ask about towing with marginal vehicles. All they know is that the tow rating is whatever. I'd say your particular vehicle is an anomaly. Heckuva payload but marginal tow rating.
Another thing that lacks discussion is frontal area... most are not aware that it matters, and many would't know how to define it. Trailer companies don't really advertise frontal area or the effects of aerodynamic shapes.
Fact is, it is just as important to use common sense as it is to be anal about the details.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:40 PM   #72
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Payload is often only shown on the specific vehicle door sticker. I couldn't find payload for my truck online, only a max.

They can't publish your payload for your truck because nobody knows how many toothbrushes you keep in the glove box.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:55 PM   #73
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I agree that there is more to selecting a tow vehicle than just tow rating. I've actually read posts in which people learn that their trailer will exceed their tow rating and respond, "Well, I can just take stuff out of the trailer and carry it in the car."

There are a number of other manufacturer ratings to consider in addition to tow rating and payload: GVWR, GCWR, axle weight ratings, tire weight ratings, both for the tow vehicle and the trailer.

Some people just ignore the details and hope for the best. Other people avoid the details by going out and purchasing a significantly oversized vehicle. Smart people do the homework and purchase a right-sized tow vehicle.

Honda provides a crutch in my Pilot owner's manual. There's a chart showing how the tow rating and tongue weight rating decrease as you add passengers or equivalent cargo in the vehicle.
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Old 12-09-2018, 05:45 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post

Some people just ignore the details and hope for the best.
The maximum frontal area on my Frontier is 30 square feet.
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:47 AM   #75
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30 sf is the J2807 spec for the 3500# class. If the tow rating of the Frontier is more than 3500#- and I'm pretty sure it is for at least some configurations- then Nissan is not testing to J2807. That's disappointing.

Truth is, though, even if they were, frontal areas of most travel trailers and fifth wheels are greater than the J2807 specs for the same weight class.

With many molded trailers, the rounded shape partly mitigates the effect of excess frontal area. Even so, I can really feel it when towing I encounter a headwind even with a smaller Scamp 13. A Scamp 19 has a much larger profile.

Rather than just hoping for the best, it makes sense to allow some margin in the tow rating when towing a high profile trailer and to slow down when towing into a headwind.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:04 AM   #76
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The 2wd 4 cyl. King cab is 3500 lbs. All the 6 cylinder models are over 6000 lbs.
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:28 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
To your premise...
A new Transit Connect with a normally aspirated 2.0L 4CYL automatic has a payload of 1570 pounds and a tow rating of 2000 pounds.

How does that compare to your F-150?
Vans tend to have higher payloads and lower tow ratings. The full sized Ford Transit 150 can have 3,000 to 3,750 pound payload but a tow rating of just 4,700 pound to 5,000 pounds for the passenger wagon. Cargo van ratings are higher, max out at 7,400 pounds towing. Meanwhile an F150 can have anywhere from about 1,200 to 3,200 payload and a tow rating of as high as 13,000 pounds. Typical F150 runs out of payload way before tow rating. Mine runs out at about 60% of tow rating.



http://www.diehlford.com/images/pdf/...uide_F_150.pdf

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...t_r1_Nov27.pdf
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:41 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post

Some people just ignore the details and hope for the best. Other people avoid the details by going out and purchasing a significantly oversized vehicle. Smart people do the homework and purchase a right-sized tow vehicle.

.
Often, a modified version of the greater fool theory kicks in. Hey, does anyone tow a Scamp with a motorcycle? If so, then it MUST be OK. We've had such threads recently asking for validation of towing with a motorcycle, and a Prius, and a few others.

Disregard what the manufacturer says, instead, as long as someone else does it, its OK. Really?
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:59 AM   #79
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For all of you who enjoy lighting your hair on fire...
My owner's manual says not to exceed 70MPH when towing.
If it is acceptable to drive 70MPH at your tow rating, how much margin do you buy back at 60?

The calculation for stopping distance is written as d = 2V/[2g(f + G)]. In this equation, d is the stopping distance, V is the original speed, g is acceleration from gravity, f is friction and G is the surface grade.
That's just for stopping and it involves lots of variables such as tread depth, width, compound, temperature and inflation.


Next comes grade (both up and down), road camber, pavement type and condition, cornering (ascending and descending radius turns)


Acceleration is affected many factors as well, such as (octane or c-tane)
Air temperature and density, altitude, even wheel bearing torque and temperature, even dirty filters.



The drag coefficient of the combined rig is a major factor in determining how a particular increment of speed will affect capacity or efficiency.
https://www.lmnoeng.com/Drag/index.php


Lit your hair yet?

This hasn't scratched the surface so far and most of us would already be scratching our heads.


Educate yourself, use common sense, and take responsibility.

How to tell if you're pressing the limit...
If stopping at the C-store and getting a "Big Gulp" will make you nervous about your tow rating...
You might be pressing the limit.

If you finally clean all that McDonald's trash from the passenger side floorboard just to make your tow rating...
You might be pressing the limit.

If you drain your windshield washer fluid just to be sure to make your tow rating...
You might be pressing the limit.

If you tie your pet to the bumper and hope he can keep up just to make your tow rating...
You might be pressing the limit.

If you fill your trailer with party balloons and the tires with helium just to reduce weight...
You might be pressing the limit.

If you leave all your electronic gadgets at home just to save weight...
YOU MIGHT HAVE A BETTER VACATION!!
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Old 12-09-2018, 09:24 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by thrifty bill View Post
Often, a modified version of the greater fool theory kicks in. Hey, does anyone tow a Scamp with a motorcycle? If so, then it MUST be OK. We've had such threads recently asking for validation of towing with a motorcycle, and a Prius, and a few others.

Disregard what the manufacturer says, instead, as long as someone else does it, its OK. Really?
THANK YOU BILL !!!!!!

I use to think many of these TV threads were just some bored individual trolling for fun which was annoying , but then I realized many of them were dead serious and then I got scared.
I believe most on this forum could calculate if the vehicle they wish to tow with is adequate for the purpose but either they don’t want to take the time or they did run the numbers and didn’t like the results .

One of the thing that confuses me is “How do you pack light when your empty trailer weight exceeds the rating of your vehicle ?”
I have to admit I have often sought reinforcement for my bad decisions / behavior .
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