Tow vehicles

[thumper-tx]

Statistically, the Toyota will last much longer, with lower repair bills and have a higher resale value relative to purchase price than the Jeep.

[Mike J. L.]

Not everyone has the same experiences, and I'm just providing information, but Consumer Reports recommends for the Highlander in general and against the Jeep.

[vintageracer]

ALL everyone seems to worry about is MPG and how much power they have when it comes to their tow vehicle.

Towing FAST or towing SLOW you still have to STOP!

I suggest you should think just as long and hard about STOPPING as you do about MPG's and power.

Many of these small SUV's that are popular today "May" be at or above their limit for braking capacity when a trailer is hooked up and that includes those rigs with electric or surge trailer brakes. A lot of folks have had a trailer push them through an intersection or into the rear of the vehicle in front of them in a panic stop or down a long steep grade when brakes fade.

Braking capability in my mind is far more important than the amount of MPG's I git, the amount of pulling power my big engine has. Remember that fancy equalizer hitch you have transfers weight and therefore even more braking requirement on the tow vehicles front brakes.

Go out sometime on a rural road and do a couple of panic stops with the trailer connected from 30 or 40 MPH and see how much your "Pucker Factor" goes up when you find out just how limited your braking capability with your trailer attached "Might" be! If you are satisfied with your rigs stopping capability good for you! I hope YOUR braking capability good for ME also so we do not meet by accident!

Do your panic stop checks safely so you truly do know the real braking capability of your rig. You might be surprised how lacking your braking ability is with your tow vehicle/trailer combination is when it's time to STOP in a hurry!

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

ALL everyone seems to worry about is MPG and how much power they have when it comes to their tow vehicle.

Towing FAST or towing SLOW you still have to STOP!

I suggest you should think just as long and hard about STOPPING as you do about MPG's and power.

Many of these small SUV's that are popular today "May" be at or above their limit for braking capacity when a trailer is hooked up and that includes those righs with electric or surge trailer brakes. A lot of folks have had a trailer push them through an intersection or into the rear of the vehicle in front of them in a panic stop or down a long steep grade when brakes fade.

Braking capability in my mind is far more important than the amount of MPG's I git, the amount of pulling power my big engine has. Remember that fancy equalizer hitch you have transfers weight and therefore even more braking requirement on the tow vehicles front brakes.

Go out sometime on a rural road and do a couple of panic stops with the trailer connected from 30 or 40 MPH and see how much your "Pucker Factor" goes up when you find out just how limited your braking capability with your trailer attached "Might" be! If you are satisfied with your rigs stopping capability good for you! I hope YOUR braking capability good for ME also so we do not meet by accident!

Do your panic stop checks safely so you truly do know the real braking capability of your rig. You might be surprised how lacking your braking ability is with your tow vehicle/trailer combination is when it's time to STOP in a hurry!

.

Small SUV’s are not the only vehicles with barely adequate braking
One weekend I was towing a trailer load of firewood on a back county road with my buddy’s small / midsize truck
I knew there was a stop sign coming up so I down shifted , applied the brakes and proceeded to be pushed half way through the intersection
Luckily there was no cross traffic
Vintageracer brings up an excellent point - Being able to stop is more important than being able to go !

[Lisle]

I've been towing my 16' Casita with a 2010 Highlander Hybrid for 7 mons full time now and it is great! Because of the light weight of the Casita I am averaging about 20mpg while towing. The Highlander Hybrid by itself gives about 27mpg in town and 25 on the highway. For a tow vehicle, that's pretty darn good on the pocketbook and the environment. I wouldn't try to tow a heavier rig with the Highlander. When I did the SmartWeigh at Escapees in TX, all my weights were well within the capacity of the TV and tires, even with the the Casita fresh water tank full, and the back of the Highlander full of camping gear and other stuff. Plus the Highlander is a very comfortable and easy to handle vehicle.

[Joee]

Originally Posted by jerrybob

Does the Grand Cherokee offer a hemi? I have a new Ram 1500 4x4 with tow package....we pull a Casita 17ft SD....the truck is amazing. Lots of power and with the 8 speed tranny and 3.92 rear....we get 15 to 16 mpg towing and 21 to 22 not towing....this is highway mileage. Love the 5.7 hemi....395 HP....I don't need WD with this set up.

They offer a 5.7L Hemi for the overland, summit and trailhawk for sure may want to check the GC Limited X also

[Mike Magee]

My Highlander had great brakes. No problem stopping. Of course, I am towing trailers that have brakes, too.

[GILLMOS]

We have a 19' Escape - 3,100lbs dry - and pull it with a 2018 Dodge Durango with the tow package (which includes sway control) - giving us 6,200 lbs of tow capacity. Steepest mountains have not been an issue. Lots more storage space than the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Not as stylish as a Grand Cherokee - but a real workhorse. Very often, we don't even know our Escape is behind us. You can get all the luxury & electronics if you want to buy up - but not necessary for us. Comfort, functionality at that price was kind of a surprise - We love ours.

[Defenestrator]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

ALL everyone seems to worry about is MPG and how much power they have when it comes to their tow vehicle.

Towing FAST or towing SLOW you still have to STOP!

I suggest you should think just as long and hard about STOPPING as you do about MPG's and power.

Many of these small SUV's that are popular today "May" be at or above their limit for braking capacity when a trailer is hooked up and that includes those rigs with electric or surge trailer brakes. A lot of folks have had a trailer push them through an intersection or into the rear of the vehicle in front of them in a panic stop or down a long steep grade when brakes fade.

Braking capability in my mind is far more important than the amount of MPG's I git, the amount of pulling power my big engine has. Remember that fancy equalizer hitch you have transfers weight and therefore even more braking requirement on the tow vehicles front brakes.

Go out sometime on a rural road and do a couple of panic stops with the trailer connected from 30 or 40 MPH and see how much your "Pucker Factor" goes up when you find out just how limited your braking capability with your trailer attached "Might" be! If you are satisfied with your rigs stopping capability good for you! I hope YOUR braking capability good for ME also so we do not meet by accident!

Do your panic stop checks safely so you truly do know the real braking capability of your rig. You might be surprised how lacking your braking ability is with your tow vehicle/trailer combination is when it's time to STOP in a hurry!

While you're right about the importance of braking, the implication that SUVs are inadequate (or even that they're categorically less capable than trucks) is incorrect. Modern vehicles are rated according to SAE J2807, which has pretty strict and specific requirements for acceleration, cooling, braking, and stability. Very different from the old "manufacturer picks a number that's probably vaguely accurate" methodology. If it's rated to tow 5,000lbs, it's rated to brake an extra 5,000lbs.

Brake strength is also pretty much the least important factor in stopping quickly. Basically any vehicle made in the past 40 years is easily capable of locking the brakes in a panic stop. Weight distribution and hitch angle is important in a panic stop (you don't want the trailer pushing the back up or down much), but more important than that is tires. Get a good set of highway tires like Michelin Defenders, not cheap knockoffs or off-road tires (unless you're mostly planning on driving offroad and not on the highway) and make sure they're correctly inflated (easier on modern vehicles with a TPMS that tells you pressure).

For a long downhill, heat dissipation and engine braking matter and those aren't always better on a truck compared to an SUV. The Highlander, for example, has a "sport" mode that lets you control/influence shifting and keeps the torque converter locked. While it's too sluggish for any sort of actual sporty driving, it gives great control over engine braking on long descents. I found that anything short of about a 6-7% grade could be done entirely with engine braking with a Highlander and a 19' Escape. If you do have to use the brake pedal, it's brake sizing and cooling that matter. An SUV with 4-wheel disc brakes will be better off on a long downhill than a truck with drum brakes.

The extra mass of a truck can help.. but it's not the biggest factor and for a long downhill it can even hurt.

[Apltrez]

Elliot and Steve,.
Based on real world experience here in the wesest, a '17 F 150, 4 door, well equipped XLT will get 23 - 24 with 2 of us and a Viszla and overnight bags, and large tank average climbing and flat. With my last trailer a Bigfppt 17, 2002 I dropped to 16 ie, Las Cruces, NM to South of Seattale, through CO and ID and UT.


My newer trailer is and '07 Bigfoot 21FB, well equpped and my only trip, round trip to Tucson was 10 ish.


Elliot....I agree about braking and I am a fanatic about a good controller and even more fanatic about well maintained axles and brakes on the trailer and the controller set properly





I think the 3.5 is great. I pull an enclosed car hauler and a dump trailer and have never wanted for power.
Since I intend to keep the 21 I am considering the 2.7 later this year.


FWIW?!


apltrez

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Defenestrator

While you're right about the importance of braking, the implication that SUVs are inadequate (or even that they're categorically less capable than trucks) is incorrect. Modern vehicles are rated according to SAE J2807, which has pretty strict and specific requirements for acceleration, cooling, braking, and stability. Very different from the old "manufacturer picks a number that's probably vaguely accurate" methodology.

While I generally agree with your assessment, I felt it is important for folks to know that the J2807 braking test standard is pretty weak. All it says is it must be able to stop the combination at the full weight rating from 20 mph to 0 mph in 80’ on a flat surface without departing the lane. That’s five car lengths at low speed.

J2807 does not address issues of heat dissipation and brake fade during longer grade descents at higher speeds, nor the ability of the drivetrain to control speed during descents with engine braking and/or regenerative braking (hybrid).

[ThomasC]

I think the most important part of my new F-150 is the 10 speed transmission. My 2016 had a 6 speed and even with my light Styrofoam box it was inadequate.

I immediately appreciated the upgrade but much more now that I am towing the heavier BigFoot. The tow/haul mode is great and gives engine braking on down grades all automatically. It's like magic.

[ShelbyM]

I only have experience with Ford's Tow/Haul feature but I really appreciate it. I think most manufacturers have something similar on vehicles that are suitable for towing.

[Defenestrator]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

While I generally agree with your assessment, I felt it is important for folks to know that the J2807 braking test standard is pretty weak. All it says is it must be able to stop the combination at the full weight rating from 20 mph to 0 mph in 80’ on a flat surface without departing the lane. That’s five car lengths at low speed.

J2807 does not address issues of heat dissipation and brake fade during longer grade descents at higher speeds, nor the ability of the drivetrain to control speed during descents with engine braking and/or regenerative braking (hybrid).

Huh, good to know, thanks. I'm guessing it's not a major issue for most modern SUVs or trucks, luckily. The push for fuel efficiency means much more aggressive torque converter lockup and more gears, most have switched to 4-wheel disk brakes (and potentially large ones at that, thanks to the trend towards larger wheels for aesthetics), and most have either some sort of "tow/haul", "sport", or "manual" mode that gives more control over the gear.

[captsteve2002]

I guess I will again go out and look at newer trucks. I like trucks over SUV's, as I use it for other hauling. Right now I'm towing with a 2004 Chevy P/U, 4.3l V-6 with 230,000 miles and it is getting old and tired, as well as I have had the transmission go out a number of times (very expensive to say the least). I would like a truck that I'm not always worried about the transmission when I'm towing. I do like the F-150, and had never considered the 2.7l V-6, only the 3.5 and V-8, with the 10 speed transmission, but may look at it again. The Chevy pulled my other trailer, a Scamp 19, over 5,000 mile without problems, except for the transmission, so I guess I'm a little transmission shy at this point. Thanks for the input.

I also have a 2008 diesel F-250, but it seems like overkill to tow my Escape 19, so thinking about selling both trucks

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by Defenestrator

While you're right about the importance of braking, the implication that SUVs are inadequate (or even that they're categorically less capable than trucks) is incorrect. Modern vehicles are rated according to SAE J2807, which has pretty strict and specific requirements for acceleration, cooling, braking, and stability. Very different from the old "manufacturer picks a number that's probably vaguely accurate" methodology. If it's rated to tow 5,000lbs, it's rated to brake an extra 5,000lbs.

The SAE J2807 standard is 80ft at 20 MPH at GVWR load and NO TRAILER hooked up!

That's NO PANIC STOP!

This government required test is a joke with little to no relevance with a trailer behind your vehicle pushing you along.

Read my original post about braking.

My suggestion is everyone should go do your own panic stop testing with your trailer loaded with whatever hitch and braking system you have. Do panic stops at 30 MPH AND 40 MPH. Your "Pucker" factor while braking will increase Exponentially at those speeds as your tow vehicle/trailer braking ability Exponentially decreases at those speeds along with your vehicle control.

Live action braking testing in an emergency situation is not a good situation. Under those circumstances you just might be the first one to the accident!

[Mike Magee]

I'm really good at braking and stopping. Today I started tearing out the old backyard deck, and after just an hour of puttering around at it, I stopped. Time for a brake... er, break.

[vintageracer]

You PASS the government SAE J2807 Test.

You may go back to sleep now!

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

You PASS the government SAE J2807 Test.

You may go back to sleep now!

Just curious. Is there anything that a government does that you approve of?

[vintageracer]

Yes!

The Interstate speed limit in West Texas!