Towing capacities

[pedalmike]

There is plenty of room in this subject for folks to do what they feel comfortable with. For years I towed my 13' Scamp Deluxe with a VW Passat Wagon with V6, later with a 2009 VW Tiguan 2 liter turbo w/ 6 speed manual.

In 2015 I sold the Scamp and bought a 2004 16' Airstream Bambi International CCD. Can-Am RV in London, Ontario set up my weight distribution hitch so I could pull the Airstream with the Tiguan safely. Can-Am is the most knowledgeable RV dealer when it comes to trailer towing that I have ever encountered. Does your dealer test TV/Trailer setups by doing emergency maneuvers on a closed course marked off with cones? I didn't think so.

Just because your TV has extra unused towing capacity doesn't mean that it's properly set up for the load you are towing.

When towing at or near max rated capacity, good setup is crucial for safe towing. I would suggest to the group that there isn't as much good advice available on properly setting up your tow rig as there should be.



We have enjoyed six seasons with the Tiguan/Airstream combo and have enjoyed every mile. 16-17 mpg average when towing. 25+ mpg when not towing.

[RobertRyan]

Originally Posted by ZachO

I haven't ever read through a towing forum so I'm sure this has been beat to death...all the same, "what I've heard" is that the trucks in the US are actually different. The market for a real workhorse wasn't here, so we got flimsier, more passenger-style comfort vehicles. So it isn't that the same truck is given different tow capacities in different countries. It's that the truck itself is different here. I'm completely open to learning that this is wrong.

It does make sense to me though, as Japanese diesels never "took" in the US, so they quickly stopped offering them here, and because double-cab, 4-door Toyota pickups were available just about everywhere except North America as far back as the early 80s. We didn't get quad cab models until 2001, and still don't have a diesel.

83 Quad Cab

Attachment 137112

88 Quad Cab Diesel

Attachment 137113

Very different when it comes to payloads. The new Isuzu Dmax has a 2150lb payload the extreme version a 2900lb one. That is why they can carry Truck Campers you see on F250's and can tow a 27ft 5th wheeler

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by RobertRyan

Several million Europeans would be in the witness box saying you can😁

I was referring to a US court . One of the first things you learn when traveling/ visiting in Canada is that it’s their country and they get to make the rules / laws
Try arguing with a Canadian Game Warden or Canadian Border Agent using the reasoning that you do it all the time in the US and see how far you get .
I have never accepted the notion that laws only apply to other people

[Bobbie Mayer]

#1, the court would go by the trailer's reported weight. No way to know actual weight at the time unless somehow the trailer came out of the accident unscathed.

#2, most of the arguments are not about towing AT towing capacity or more, they are about people being told to tow far less than the towing capacity. One guy today said a vehicle rated at 5000 lbs should not tow more than 2500 lbs. If you are towing 4500 and your vehicle is rated for 5000 the jury is going to say, okay, that was fine.

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by ZachO

I don't mind going slow. The idea that if you can't go as fast as you want up any hill, then you don't have a powerful enough truck, is silly to me. I see semis going 40mph with flashers on going up mountain passes all the time.

.

My problem is if someone can't keep up with the slower traffic, like semis. My first experience, I crested the "big hill" at 29MPH on the interstate, and even the semis had to pass me. At that point, I really had no business on that road. Shortly after I bought a bigger TV.

[RobertRyan]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

My problem is if someone can't keep up with the slower traffic, like semis. My first experience, I crested the "big hill" at 29MPH on the interstate, and even the semis had to pass me. At that point, I really had no business on that road. Shortly after I bought a bigger TV.

You get fined here if going to slow on a freeway. Having a Semi pass you is not a good sign

[RobertRyan]

Example of a substantial Truck Camper on a Mazda- BT50

[RobertRyan]

what I've heard" is that the trucks in the US are actually different. The market for a real workhorse wasn't here, so we got flimsier, more passenger-style comfort vehicles. So it isn't that the same truck is given different tow capacities in different countries

Pretty well spot on. That is why Global Midsizers are Diesels with 2700lb up to 3000lb payloads. Unheard of even on 1/2 tons in the US

[Denise T]

Comments on fuel economy and TV? Beyond the obvious that a smaller vehicle with smaller engine (6vs 8 cylinder) is likely to get better mileage both towing and not towing? Will an underpowered TV use more fuel towing than an adequately powered one?

I want to replace my 2011 Honda Pilot next year. I get about 21 L/100 km towing a 3500 trailer, or about 12 mpg. Pilot pulls the trailer fine although would like just a wee bit more oomph up steep hills, but I wonder if I’d get better mileage too with a slightly more powerful engine?

Thanks
Denise T

[ZachO]

I agree it's a bad sign to get passed by semis. A few weekends ago when I was in 2nd gear, 30mph at the top of hill is not a good thing. I don't have the option of buying a new tow vehicle, so I just need to be very conscious of not being a danger. Which probably means avoiding certain roads, or certain times.

Mileage really depends on the vehicle. My friends who have Tundras get about 9mpg, whether towing a big trailer, small trailer, or slide-in camper. I get between 12-14mpg in my V6 Tacoma. But once one of those friends bought himself a newish V8 Silverado, he was getting significantly better mileage, whether towing or not, than he did with his V8 Tundra, and definitely better than I'm getting in my Tacoma.

So yeah, an efficient, large engine not having to work as hard can give you better mileage, but it's not a guarantee. You've got to do your homework.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by RobertRyan

You get fined here if going to slow on a freeway. Having a Semi pass you is not a good sign

Here in Illinois the minimum on Interstate is 45MPH.
If you actually wanted to "keep up" with the Semis You would have to exceed the 70MPH speed limit by a substantial amount, dangerous when towing a travel trailer.
When towing my Scamp with my 2.3L normally aspirated Escape, we drove 58-60MPH on the the flat with Semis and other traffic passing us regularly at 78+. In the mountains like over Monteagle? Well, we passed the Semis and much of the other traffic still going 58-60MPH with average mileage in the low to mid twenties.
My Ranger could do the same with speeds up to 110MPH... I get mid twenties at 63MPH and tow safely in traffic .
No traffic issues with either set up.


If the issue is to stay within the TVs capability while still driving sensibly, then I'm all in!
If the issue is gross overkill on the TV in order to keep up with non-towing traffic, well, count me out.
If I'm hell bent for leather and cramped for time, I'll take the Mustang and stay in motels. If I drove 78MPH with the Mustang I would be passed about 10 times for every time I passed.

[Borden]

We tow with a car and do not worry if others want to pass; 80kph to 90kph max'. We get about 12L/100km to 14L/100km average. We have a lot of hills in our area.

Ten years of towing our boler with the current car and it has worked great.
Our setup transaxle cooler, WD hitch system, frame hitch, sway bar, seven pin wiring, breakaway switch and trailer brake module, and electric brakes on trailer to meet all the rules in Ontario; note car rules are different then truck rules.
The car came with extra cooler, 7pin wiring, hitch, brake module from dealer new. Also had to add extra safety systems or they would not honour the warranty of car.
We did add a better module that had dedicated power for battery, Andy the frame specialist changed our hitch to a better setup.
The tongue weight of the trailer is around 195lb; if the propane tanks are removed my wife can pickup the tongue of the trailer and move it in yard.
The WD system prevents the hitch bottoming out on some store exits to road and other locations.

[Borden]

Originally Posted by pedalmike

We have enjoyed six seasons with the Tiguan/Airstream combo and have enjoyed every mile. 16-17 mpg average when towing. 25+ mpg when not towing.

You are doing very well, my cousin has an Airstream the same size as our trailer it has twice the weight and twice the tongue weight of our boler. I am impressed the Tiguan works so well; will have to consider it in the future as a towing option.
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[John McMillin]

Originally Posted by Borden

You are doing very well, my cousin has an Airstream the same size as our trailer it has twice the weight and twice the tongue weight of our boler. I am impressed the Tiguan works so well; will have to consider it in the future as a towing option.
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Our 2013 Tiguan (not the new, weaker model) did an awesome job towing a stripped-down Scamp 16, all 2000 lbs of it. That included a haul up to Leadville, the highest incorporated town in the USA. They're underrated, I believe.

[jgilliam1955]

We tow with a 2015 Chevy Colorado towing a Casita. I average 15 MPG. I try to keep it no more than 65 MPH on the road. I use a sway bar only.

[Travellers]

We tow a trailer with a loaded for camping weight of 3420 pounds including full water, beer and smokies and a tongue weight of 335 pounds with an SUV that has a tow capacity of 3500 pounds and a max hitch weight of 335 pounds. We like living on the edge. We are well within all axle rating and well under both GVWR’s. The SUV manufacturer just chose a class 2 hitch. Meh. Runs nice and we tend to hang around 90 kph. We put over 12000 kilometres on the combo this year already. Next week we head out on a great circle tour of BC and Vancouver island. Life is good.

Oh. And we average about 340 - 360 watt hours per kilometre on the highway.

[parmm]

Originally Posted by jgilliam1955

We tow with a 2015 Chevy Colorado towing a Casita. I average 15 MPG. I try to keep it no more than 65 MPH on the road. I use a sway bar only.

We tow with a 2018 Chevy Colorado LT crew cab short bed, 4wd, with 3.6L DOHC V-6 gas with Direct Injection. Curb weight is 4419 lbs, Max GVWR is 6200 lbs, Max payload is 1548 lbs, and Max trailering is 7000 lbs. I average between 16 to 17 mpg when towing my Scamp 19 (2" ball in the box abt 2" behind the rear axle and around 22 to 23 mpg when empty, hardly ever any city driving. I also try to keep it at 65 mpg and lower. When towing you hardly ever know the Scamp is back there, even in the hills of Pennsylvania.

[John McMillin]

No final decision yet, but my choice won't be any kind of truck. That would be an easy and safe choice, but it's just not our way. We're looking at luxury SUVs with 3500-lb tow ratings, and not the largest ones either. A decade or two ago we were towing a 2000-lb Scamp with cars rated 2000 lbs: first with a Forester, which was safe and reliable but slow, and then with a VW Tiguan that pulled like a champ. There were no white-knuckled moments with either, or signs of strain or harm to the powertrain. So we're comfortable using all of our tow capacity, driving with care.

Since the Tiguan is gone and we need a new tug, I'm now looking at SUVs by tow ratings, but also vehicle size. This car also has to be handy and easy to park in a city. Not too tall, so we have to clamber up into it, either. I don't trust either the CVTs on most of the Japanese brands, or the failure-prone Audi and VW engines that I'm too familiar with. So right now I'm concentrating on the small Mercedes SUVs, the GLK and newer GLC, and the Volvo XC 40 and XC60. My European car mechanics praise these cars and their engines. Prices for used 2015-18 models are surprisingly affordable, and seem to be dropping. If anyone is using either vehicle, I'd appreciate your experiences.

[John McMillin]

In general, tow ratings seem like a mysterious, ill-defined number designed by committee. Or look at Casita's own statement on the website: "With our largest deluxe model base weight coming in at under 2500lbs and our smallest standard model best weight coming in at less than 2000lbs, a Casita can be easily towed by all vehicles with a 3500lbs tow capacity and is safe to control on the road." But when Casita's salesperson asked about my tow vehicle, I was told that 3500 is barely adequate, and I ought to have more.

Maybe there's a difference between the marketing and the legal departments here. You can never go wrong giving conservative advice on safety-related issues, I guess. And there's no shortage of underworked trucks these days. But I cling to the original concept of FG's as everyman's trailer, to be pulled by ordinary cars.

Looking over current choices, I spot puzzling inconsistencies. Like the Rav4 and its many models. Most are limited to just 1500 lbs, and the hybrid handles 1750 lbs. But then there's the Adventure Trim, which leaps to a 3500 lb rating. Why? It has the same 2.5 liter non-turbo four as the others, with less than 180 hp. That's not enough, is it?

Or take the Audi Q5. It has a 2.0L turbo four that's very similar to what Mercedes and Volvo uses, but its tow rating is magically elevated to 4,400 pounds, 900 lbs more than its competition. Why? (It doesn't matter- Audi's failed the reliability test for me before).

So I have enough respect for tow ratings not to violate them, but I take them with a shaker of salt.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by John McMillin

Looking over current choices, I spot puzzling inconsistencies. Like the Rav4 and its many models. Most are limited to just 1500 lbs, and the hybrid handles 1750 lbs. But then there's the Adventure Trim, which leaps to a 3500 lb rating. Why? It has the same 2.5 liter non-turbo four as the others, with less than 180 hp. That's not enough, is it?

The difference is cooling. The Adventure can work harder for longer without overheating, but it will still be working harder. And no, there's no way I'd pull a Casita 17D with one.

The challenge with the Casita is hitch weight. Figure 400-425# with attention to load distribution. They can go higher if you're not careful. Most 3500# vehicles come with a 350# tongue weight rating.

Tow ratings are also based on two "average" people (driver and passanger @ 165#) and nothing else in the vehicle. When traveling, many people carry more than the bare minimum. They are also based on a frontal area that is less than a typical molded trailer (30 sf in the 3500# class and 40 sf in the 5000# class).

For all these reasons I'd be looking more toward the 5000/500# class, which I've heard is what the sales people recommend, the website* notwithstanding. Unfortunately, that narrows the field quite a bit. There used to be some Euro offerings in the 4000-4500# range, which could be doable.
* Casita now only sells one size, the 17'er. The reference to a "smallest standard model" appears to indicate the now discontinued 16'er, which is realistically towable by a 3500# rated vehicle. Apparently something got overlooked when they updated the website.

My personal choice for a 17D would be a Honda Passport (with a conventional automatic transmission), but I understand we all have different priorities and preferences when it come to our vehicles.