Towing with a 2013 Honda Odyssey

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by teg_76

Thanks Jon. I think we could just bring the kids bikes and be fine. Is your bikerack on your Scamp the one that comes with it as an option, or is it after market?

Originally Posted by teg_76

...We're not necessarily light/efficient packers so we'll have to work on that.

You're thinking in the right direction. The trailer itself is well within specs, but if you bring too much extra cargo, it could get marginal or worse.

We have the Scamp receiver. It seems to be pretty sturdy (includes an extra frame member), but it adds maybe 40-50# in addition to the weight of bikes and rack. Also, know that things bounce around a lot back there. It's hard on the bikes, and I cable the whole thing to the frame just in case. Not all racks are approved for use on a trailer. It also requires careful attention to loading to maintain adequate tongue weight. Really, if I had a minivan and only two bikes, I'd carry them inside, front wheels off using a fork mount.

Honda doesn't have a factory tow package on the newer Odysseys, just dealer-installed towing equipment, including an ATF cooler (the Honda unit is pretty robust). Hitch and wiring, including trailer brake wiring and a controller, can be done at any hitch shop or DIY, although I recall someone mentioning that the Honda-supplied receiver tucks neatly behind the bumper fascia, while some aftermarket units hang down below.

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by teg_76

Hi CivilGuy,

Thanks for all the great info. I really like the Escape Trailers. I live in Oregon so I'd be able to pick it up from the factory myself if I were to order one. We would need the 17B option though and it may be a little out of my weight/price class. Interesting though that it said the fully loaded estimate is 3400 lbs. I saw the trailer weights in the world spreadsheet. Generally though weights are fully loaded, right?

Tom,

If I understand your question correctly, yes, the trailer weights spreadsheets was compiled from trailers arriving at campgrounds with all the 'stuff' folks had packed for their trips.

While the Escape trailers get a 'discount' off the listed $CAD prices due to the favorable foreign exchange rates, I have no idea how they compare in price to a Scamp. I have seen it said on the forums that the two are competitive, but you would have to do the math to validate that. And yes, it looks like you would be out at the margin of the rated towing capacity with a 17B.

I encourage you to read up on payload capacity. Thanks to Steve Dunham and other's posts, I have learned how significantly payload can limit what you are able to tow. As an example, some of the published towing capacities on trucks appear to be virtually unobtainable when you look at the constraint imposed by the payload capacity.

I have no idea how this factor might specifically influence the Odyssey's rated capability, but it would be a good item to follow up on while you are in the information-gathering stage.

[redbarron55]

On my T&C the manual with the factory hitch states that the towing limits are 1800 lba without a WDH and 3500 with.
I searched out a Reese Mini 350 rated for that 3500 lbs and it helps with that wheel spin on the gravel roads.
My heavy modified Scamp weighs about 2800 lbs and the T&C has no problems towing and the ratings are similar between all of the vans. The vans seem to have a 3500 lb limit across the board.
To gain and "advantage" the T&C is rated 3600, but without the stow and go seats which drops it back to the 3500 lb setpoint.
Most of the later T&C s are set up for towing, but you need to check carefully.
Mine was a Hertz rental which had the self leveling suspension and the heavy duty cooling and trailer module that makes up the towing package and added the OEM hitch and cabling.
The six speed transmission is busy in the hills, but the temps stay well within limits at least in the Smokie Mountains.
I think that a WDH is useful to keep the weight distributed among all the wheels, but I don't think the other manufacturers require it and Chrysler is pretty stingy with the information as well since I found it only on the hitch manual.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

...I encourage you to read up on payload capacity. Thanks to Steve Dunham and other's posts, I have learned how significantly payload can limit what you are able to tow. As an example, some of the published towing capacities on trucks appear to be virtually unobtainable when you look at the constraint imposed by the payload capacity.

I have no idea how this factor might specifically influence the Odyssey's rated capability, but it would be a good item to follow up on while you are in the information-gathering stage.

The payload on a 2013 Odyssey is 1400-1600 pounds, more than some models of the F150 that year!

But ever-thorough Honda doesn't leave anything to chance. There's a chart in the towing section of the owner's manual showing how trailer weight and tongue weight ratings decline as you add additional passengers or equivalent cargo. I'm sure they have factored in payload, GVWR, GCWR, RAWR,...

My Pilot has a similar chart, and the biggest thing I noticed was that tongue weight drops faster than trailer weight, presumably because the rear axle rating is the first to be exceeded. That further limits the trailer weight. For example, with 5@165# passengers on board, I am limited to a 3000 pound trailer (down from 3500), but only 200 pounds of tongue weight (down from 350). If I maintain the minimum recommended 10% tongue weight ratio, that means I can really only pull a 2000 pound trailer in that situation.

The OP seems to be aware of the chart (and its assumptions about the weight of passengers), which is good!

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

The OP seems to be aware of the chart (and even its assumptions about the weight of passengers), which is good!

Well, you never know Jon, he might move up from a Honda!

Naw, I've got nothing against Honda. I just think that understanding payload capacity means more than looking at a chart which someone prepared for a specific application. Kind of the 'teach a man to fish' sort of thing...

I generally try to be conscious of others who read threads but may not have the specific vehicle being discussed.

At least that's what I think I thunk...

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

The OP seems to be aware of the chart (and even its assumptions about the weight of passengers), which is good!

Oh der, I said "I have no idea how this factor might specifically influence the Odyssey's rated capability, but it would be a good item to follow up on while you are in the information-gathering stage."

Now, I get your point! We do have an idea, thank to Honda's chart...

I better go get another cup of coffee here so I can keep up with the sharp kids!

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

...I just think that understanding payload capacity means more than looking at a chart which someone prepared for a specific application. Kind of the 'teach a man to fish' sort of thing...

I generally try to be conscious of others who read threads but may not have the specific vehicle being discussed...

You're absolutely right. The more we all learn about the various towing-related ratings and limitations, the better. The existence of "The Chart" in Honda manuals is their concession to the reality that many don't.

I'm not even sure payload is the most critical. It doesn't tell the whole story. For example, 100 pounds of payload on the ball behind the bumper affects the vehicle a lot differently than 100 pounds of payload in the middle row of seats. RAWR and GCWR are probably the likeliest to become an issue when towing.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by k corbin

You can always put bike racks on top of the tow vehicle

Two bikes on the roof will present enough drag to drop fuel economy more than a utility trailer full of bikes or the van packed to capacity on the inside.

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I'm not even sure payload is the most critical. It doesn't tell the whole story. For example, 100 pounds of payload on the ball behind the bumper affects the vehicle a lot differently than 100 pounds of payload in the middle row of seats. RAWR and GCWR are probably the likeliest to become an issue when towing.

All right, now we've done it; free-body diagrams coming up next!

Everyone that loves vectors, raise their hands!

[k0wtz]

Floyd I never imagined 2 bikes would cause this much drop!

bob