Towing with a midsize SUV? (specifically Pathfinder)

[Camille]

Hello all,
I would really appreciate some tow vehicle advice. I'm not sure exactly when, but I am a future Escape trailer owner. We have never camped in an RV before, so just to be sure, we decided to go the route of renting a couple of times (a regular small bunkhouse, since fiberglass is not readily available for rent). Also with a little experience, we hope we will then at least "know what we don't know" about this lifestyle!

So we are shopping for a tow vehicle. I drive a minivan now and we need the seats, and a mid-size SUV makes the most sense for us. After some research, I settled on the Nissan Pathfinder since it supposedly at least some of them tow 6000 lbs whereas most of the others (Pilot, Highlander, etc.) tow 5000 max, plus the Pathfinder is a little more affordable. We want the 6000 lb capacity so we are not right at the max when we do get an Escape, plus it will give us more options when renting. I test drove one yesterday and almost moved on it but decided to wait a few days (it's on hold at Carmax). I have to say it has not been straightforward at all trying to figure out just which Pathfinders tow 6000 because not all of them do, and I'm wondering now if there's a reason for how ambiguous it is after seeing the linked article. I guess my questions are, does anyone have input specific to the Pathfinder, and in general, is it really true that Escapes are towed no problem by an SUV with 5000 lb tow capacity? Thanks so much in advance.
https://www.pathfindertalk.com/threa...quipped.35807/

[Jon in AZ]

My two issues with the Pathfinder when I last shopped for a similar vehicle were (1) use of a continuously variable transmission, and (2) reliability ranking near the bottom of the 3-row class.

That was a number of years ago, so I would recommend several things for more current information. One, check recent reliability rankings from Consumer Reports, JD Power, and other sources. I like to look at the CR frequency-of-repair charts broken down by vehicle subsystem. Two, spend some time poking around on the Pathfinder owner's forum, with special attention to the towing section and transmission posts. It seems like you have done some of that. Most have a search feature. Three, talk to an independent mechanic that works on many makes and ask for their take on the Pathfinder as regards the transmission, towing, and overall reliability.

The meaning of "properly equipped" is best answered by the towing section of the owner's manual for the specific year you're considering. A google search on something like "2018 Nissan Pathfinder owner's manual" should turn up a PDF file you can download and read.

As to Escapes and mid-sized crossovers, my impression is with a 5000# rating you can probably pull an 17', possibly a 19', but the 21' and coming 23' will likely be too much. It does depend on how much gear you carry and how many of those 7-8 seats will be occupied. The full tow rating assumes only a driver and front seat passenger and no cargo. It also matters where you tow: engine power and tow ratings decrease by around 4% for each 1000' of elevation.

How much difference does that extra 1000# of rated towing capacity really make? Can't say, but I'm a bit skeptical.

Our search in 2013 led us to a 2011 Pilot, which has been a comfortable, reliable tow vehicle for our 13' Scamp (currently at 190K miles and counting). In 2WD form, it's rated for up to 3500#, but because we travel with four people and a fair bit of gear, as well as lots of mountains and higher elevations, I wouldn't go any larger than a 16'. With Pilot (like many in this class), 4WD is required for the top rating.

[thrifty bill]

Really depends on which model Escape. Many use the 5,000 pound rated Pilot or Highlander to pull Escape 19s and 21s. SUV ratings depend on the year, motor, etc.

+10 Nissan quality is not so hot.

As you go for higher tow ratings, many of the four door full sized pickup trucks have similar functionality as SUVs, get mileage as good or better than the mid-sized SUVs, and will have much higher tow ratings.

Some complain at higher elevations out west with those mid sized SUVs towing the larger Escapes. So it depends.

Do a search on the Escape forum and you will find countless discussions on using a mid sized SUV to tow.


One thing about the price of various SUVs, when you keep a car a long time like I do, a little more up front can get you more reliability and longevity. Closing in on 200,000 miles on my wife's Honda.

[Gilda]

You have received a couple thorough replies from people who, obviously, know cars much better than I do. I agree with doing thorough research. In addition, I found some British car sites better at reviewing tow capacity of cars much better than any US sources and some have videos of their tests. Of course, you'll have to research and ask if the British version of the same vehicle compares with the one you will purchase. We live in California where vehicle standards are among the highest in the U.S. View a British video review for the CX-5 2012 at the end of this paragraph. Note that there have been many upgrades in the CX-5 since 2012 including better interior sound-proofing. Sorry, mine did not come with a Bose audio system. Most European cars come with manual control. Also note that trailers are called "caravans" in Europe. A simple search on YouTube for "CX-5 towing caravan" will result in many videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5BdETcgSHE

We have a 2011 13' Scamp and formerly towed it with a Subaru Legacy sedan, a car we purchased before we knew we would be towing a trailer. We were, mostly, satisfied with its tow performance. After purchasing the car and having the tow package installed (due to low clearance) we found that the rear hitch touched the ground or bumps when going on a slight (or more) incline resulting in an awful scraping sound. This was a disappointment but did not affect performance. That said, we were glad to be in the market for a new tow vehicle when the time came to make that decision. The Legacy served us well as a commuter car as well as a tow vehicle.

When, after careful research, we chose to purchase a 2018 Mazda CX-5 and had the tow package installed by a private company. Previous to our purchase, we found that the only factory tow receiver available was for a bicycle rack and none were available for a trailer tow. There were few post-purchase tow options and we settled on an effective, yet UGLY tow package. From an esthetic vantage point I do prefer the look of a manufacturer-installed tow package which appears integral to the esthetic of the vehicle. Unfortunately, those seem to be only available in pricier and heftier vehicles such as trucks.

We are very happy with the Mazda CX-5 as a tow vehicle and were pleasantly surprised to find it towed and handled much more easily than our Subaru Legacy. The CX-5 is considered a small SUV. For the two of us, it has plenty of space for cargo as well as for the few times we carry passengers. It's also a great vehicle for everyday driving.

[ninklink]

We tow our 21' Bigfoot trailer with a 2018 Pathfinder with 6000' tow rating with no issues. Make sure you have proper hitch set up and anti sway bar and brake controller and you're good to go. Hills are always a drag but there's a tow mode on the tranny. Where we live there are no big hills where we camp. We are going to trade up to a 2020 Pathfinder this week. I also did my research and on balance settled on the Pathfinde people transport, carrying our 2 kayaks above, fuel efficiency, fantastic local dealer that spoils us and also resale value is up there. To move up from a 2018 with 36,000 kms on it and a couple dings to a new 2020 is costing me $12,500 cdn. I don't like the 2021 Pathfinder re-design yet so I'm sticking with current style. Been happy with Pathfinder as a tow vehicle.

[Borden]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

My two issues with the Pathfinder when I last shopped for a similar vehicle were (1) use of a continuously variable transmission, and (2) reliability ranking near the bottom of the 3-row class.

That was a number of years ago, so I would recommend several things for more current information. One, check recent reliability rankings from Consumer Reports, JD Power, and other sources. I like to look at the CR frequency-of-repair charts broken down by vehicle subsystem. Two, spend some time poking around on the Pathfinder owner's forum, with special attention to the towing section and transmission posts. It seems like you have done some of that. Most have a search feature. Three, talk to an independent mechanic that works on many makes and ask for their take on the Pathfinder as regards the transmission, towing, and overall reliability.

The meaning of "properly equipped" is best answered by the towing section of the owner's manual for the specific year you're considering. A google search on something like "2018 Nissan Pathfinder owner's manual" should turn up a PDF file you can download and read.

As to Escapes and mid-sized crossovers, my impression is with a 5000# rating you can probably pull an 17', possibly a 19', but the 21' and coming 23' will likely be too much. It does depend on how much gear you carry and how many of those 7-8 seats will be occupied. The full tow rating assumes only a driver and front seat passenger and no cargo. It also matters where you tow: engine power and tow ratings decrease by around 4% for each 1000' of elevation.

How much difference does that extra 1000# of rated towing capacity really make? Can't say, but I'm a bit skeptical.

Our search in 2013 led us to a 2011 Pilot, which has been a comfortable, reliable tow vehicle for our 13' Scamp (currently at 190K miles and counting). In 2WD form, it's rated for up to 3500#, but because we travel with four people and a fair bit of gear, as well as lots of mountains and higher elevations, I wouldn't go any larger than a 16'. With Pilot (like many in this class), 4WD is required for the top rating.

Did not know that the Escape and Scamp are so heavy, our 17' boler is so light we talked about a Subaru all wheel drive with 2700 lbs. or 3000 lbs. towing capacity to replace our current car we purchased to tow with; have used it for the past 10 years. We do use a custom class 3 frame hitch made by Andy the hitch specialist using some parts from the original hitch from dealer, with WD system so we do not bottom out, sway bar, electric brakes, and transaxle cooler.
We do travel light tanks empty and just us and the pets mostly so that could make a difference.

[Borden]

Upgrades to trailer and repairs have added some weight; tows fine still but thought a new TV would be better with the changes and our future plans. The extra is not really needed but we are thinking of going to an area with mountains and AWD would be a good idea. We would get Andy to make us a custom hitch for next TV.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Borden

Did not know that the Escape and Scamp are so heavy...

It’s not that they’re so heavy, just that I like to leave some margin to allow for extra people and gear, as well as severe towing conditions common in the West.

A Scamp 16 averages 2600#, an Escape 17 3000#, an Escape 19 3800#, and an Escape 21 4400#. Those are approximate average loaded weights from the “Trailer Weights in the Real World” database. In theory all are within the 5000# rating of most 3-row crossovers, subject to loading and towing conditions.

The report on the Pathfinder/Escape 21 combination is encouraging, though I’d like to see a follow up after 100K or 200K miles. Of course if you trade vehicles every 3-5 years while still under the powertrain warranty, long-term reliability isn’t as high a priority.

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by Borden

Did not know that the Escape and Scamp are so heavy, our 17' boler is so light we talked about a Subaru all wheel drive with 2700 lbs. or 3000 lbs. towing capacity to replace our current car we purchased to tow with; have used it for the past 10 years. We do use a custom class 3 frame hitch made by Andy the hitch specialist using some parts from the original hitch from dealer, with WD system so we do not bottom out, sway bar, electric brakes, and transaxle cooler.
We do travel light tanks empty and just us and the pets mostly so that could make a difference.

Do you have a real certified scale weight on that Boler? If so, please share with the forum and add it to the spreadsheet. Be sure to add the tongue weight to the axle weight to get total trailer weight. I do not consider Scamp, Casita or Escape to be heavy at all. But I consider perceptions about weight are often unrealistically low and rely on the “someone told me” method.

[patrick crawford]

camille, i tow my 16' casita with a nissan frontier. i think that the frontier and the pathfinder share a platform (they did in the past but the pathfinder may have changed). i'm on my second frontier. the first (2010) went for nearly 230k. in all those miles nothing broke and the only expenses were the usual gas & oil, brakes and spark plugs (i don't recommend changing those as it was very expensive and i couldn't tell a bit of difference). the truck was running fine when i traded but i really wanted to get the same body so i could transfer my topper. the only thing changed with the new truck is it has 4 full doors (and i still have an 8' bed). i'm assuming you'll be getting the v6 engine which in my truck made it up and down the big mountains out west every time i asked it to. it did require a heavy foot on the go pedal and a lot of rpm's (made for poor fuel mileage). my casita weighed 3320#'s fully loaded for that 4 month trip and the truck was 4720#'s at the same time. so, that comes to nearly 8000#'s.

whew! sorry, i got a bit carried away with all that info just to say i wouldn't hesitate to recommend a nissan product to drag a small trailer around....

p@

[JaxDan]

I currently tow a 17 Casita and did so for 3 years with a GMC Envoy Denali that provided lots of power and safety while on freeways. I had to rely on it several times. I have gone forward in years and a bit less in power recently with a Dodge Durango GT AWD rated for 6200#. The Durango has a towing package ready to go with 4 and 7 pin connectors minus the brake controller that was relatively easy to install. What impresses me with the Durango is the V6 power (same HP as the GMC's V8) with a bit less torque than the Envoy. the 8 speed transmission and the longer wheelbase for towing stability. There is a ton of room with the seats down and 3 rows available for the family. I do not have towing mileage yet but highway driving has shown 27.5 mpg and 22.5 in town. Folks with Jeep Grand Cherokees with the same engine report towing in the 17.5 mpg range with a Casita loaded for camping.

[Steve Carlson]

I swear some of you guys are hauling lead bricks around in your camper... I can't imagine adding more than a couple hundred pounds to the trailer with mostly clothes and bedding (I don't haul water or food in the camper).

[hcharris]

Three years ago I did all the research to make sure my then current vehicle would have no problems with a 17' Casita SD. I was driving a Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk with the factory towing package (and a number of other options).

The Trailhawk is rated at 4500 pounds and the Casita is just under 2500 pounds. I bought them about 6 months apart and picked up the Casita in Texas. Both were ordered from the respective factories to be exactly what I wanted.

I have been very happy with my choices and have logged about 25000 trouble free mies while pulling.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlson

I swear some of you guys are hauling lead bricks around in your camper... I can't imagine adding more than a couple hundred pounds to the trailer with mostly clothes and bedding (I don't haul water or food in the camper).

With both our 16 ft Scamp and 17ft Casita the weight when loaded & ready to travel was approx 500 to 600 lbs above base weight
IE Our Casita weighed just under 2800 lbs when we left the Casita factory and a little over 3300 lbs when loaded for travel

Food , beverages , clothes , dishes , food , bedding , cooking utensils, appliances ,towels , drinking water , reading material , TV , floor rugs , toiletries , etc , etc but no lead bricks . The weight adds up quickly and from my experience most people underestimate the added weight by a large margin .
When we head out for a weeks trip , we leave home with everything we need to last the week except water .
The last thing I want to do when camping is spending half my time making multiple trips to the closest Walmart in search of essentials !!

Some people are comfortable pushing their tow vehicle to or beyond their limits . I’m not a member of that group and want no part of it.
If I couldn’t afford the tow vehicle then I wouldn’t have bought my trailer.

[JaxDan]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlson

I swear some of you guys are hauling lead bricks around in your camper... I can't imagine adding more than a couple hundred pounds to the trailer with mostly clothes and bedding (I don't haul water or food in the camper).

There are a few more things than clothes and bedding added to the dry weight. In my Casite 17 water is 88# propane + tanks 60# extra for replacement cushions over standard 25# then add refrigerator contents, food not refrigerated and all extra appliances, tools etc. It is easy to get to 400# over dry weight. I figure my 17 SD listed dry at 2480 weighs over 2900 leaving the driveway and may have more on return if the black and gray tanks did not get dumped.

[Justus C]

Originally Posted by patrick crawford

camille, i tow my 16' casita with a nissan frontier. i think that the frontier and the pathfinder share a platform (they did in the past but the pathfinder may have changed). i'm on my second frontier. the first (2010) went for nearly 230k. in all those miles nothing broke and the only expenses were the usual gas & oil, brakes and spark plugs (i don't recommend changing those as it was very expensive and i couldn't tell a bit of difference). the truck was running fine when i traded but i really wanted to get the same body so i could transfer my topper. the only thing changed with the new truck is it has 4 full doors (and i still have an 8' bed). i'm assuming you'll be getting the v6 engine which in my truck made it up and down the big mountains out west every time i asked it to. it did require a heavy foot on the go pedal and a lot of rpm's (made for poor fuel mileage). my casita weighed 3320#'s fully loaded for that 4 month trip and the truck was 4720#'s at the same time. so, that comes to nearly 8000#'s.

whew! sorry, i got a bit carried away with all that info just to say i wouldn't hesitate to recommend a nissan product to drag a small trailer around....

p@

P@, it looks like the Pathfinder shared a platform up to 2012; after that they switched to a unibody construction. It is based on the same platform as my Nissan Altima. In fact, when I sat test a Pathfinder while waiting on my car in the dealership, I later commented to my wife that it felt like sitting in my car, but elevated. It did not have the roomy feel that we experienced in other midsize SUVs. We crossed it off of our list then and there.

The Armada still shares a platform with the Titan, but is a full size SUV.

The Durango is one oftend overlooked option already mentioned here. It shares a platform with the Jeep Grand Cherokee, but is "stretched" a bit. Not all trims come with a third row, but some do. I am personally not a Dodge fan, but it's an option.

To Camille, the 2020 Pathfinder manual lists a blanket tow rating of 6,000lbs and says that all Pathfinders are pre-wired for a brake controller. I just did a model comparison on the Nissan website, and it lists 6,000 lbs for both the 2WD and AWD variants of the base model.

As to reliability, I have been happy with my Altima but I think that is due more to diligent maintenance, conservative driving, and luck. The 2013 model year was just one of many which had CVT problems. I think the Pathfinder uses a different CVT design and it doesn't look like it has had those issues. Honda and Toyota (among others) are also now using CVTs and I don't think they would put their reputation for reliability on the line if it wasn't a proven technology.

[dlakeman]

No one mentioned transmission temperature, or more importantly over temperature. I'm not familiar with the Pathfinder. When purchasing a vehicle from the factory with a "tow package" the transmission fluid (ATF) cooler is either oversized or an additional cooler is added in front of the radiator to ensure the transmission does not overheat when towing. Taking a "stock" vehicle to a shop to add a tow hitch will not make the vehicle a "tow vehicle." It is very easy, on a hot day, up an incline, towing a trailer at the max weight, to overheat the transmission fluid. Transmissions aren't cheap, and neither is setting on the side of the road waiting for a tow because your transmission failed. I have a gauge so I know exactly what is my ATF temp at all times, and I know what are the temp limits for my tow vehicle.

The advice your are getting on weights is spot on. I drove my tow vehicle to the local landfill, where there's a scale, and had it weighed. I filled up the gas tank, took my wife and 76lb German Shepherd to see exactly what my tow vehicle weighed. Knowing that weight I looked in my owner's manual for the calculations I needed to do to ensure I could safely tow my Escape 21. Since I hadn't purchased the Escape 21 yet, I went on the Escape Owner's Forum and found people towing Escape 21's with tow vehicles similar to mine. I got their feedback. I also asked Escape for weights of trailer and various options I was considering, as well as tongue weight. I then added in "additional weight" for things I might carry in my trailer. One person told you to consider the weight of propane and water if you intend to tow with water tank full. What you don't want is a trailer that is so close to your vehicle tow capability that the trailer actually pushes your tow vehicle when trying to stop or going around an unexpected sharp curve. Do the math and be safe!

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

What you don't want is a trailer that is so close to your vehicle tow capability that the trailer actually pushes your tow vehicle when trying to stop or going around an unexpected sharp curve. Do the math and be safe!

The trailer has brakes, and presumably a properly adjusted brake controller.

[hcharris]

The other things I like about the Trailhawk are a transmission cooler, temperature gauge for the transmission, and heavy duty suspension. I watched the transmission temp when I traveled over the Sierra Nevadas in August.

I don't feel that I have ever gotten close to the advertised weight limits and with the V6, there seems to be plenty of power without straining.

[Jon in AZ]

Funny how these tow vehicle threads go. The OP has only mentioned “ an Escape trailer” and wanting a 3-row SUV because they “need the seats.”

I’d still like to hear which Escape trailer and how many seats will be used when towing, for starters.