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Old 07-24-2023, 07:46 PM   #141
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I think the 450 miles refers to non towing range. The towing range will depend on the size of the profile of the trailer, the weight and of course the speed one tows at. Same as a gas vehicle.
Correct, except weight doesn’t matter too much. Here’s a calculation I’ve posted before

Assume 20%-80% desirable charging range, and 30% efficiency loss which is achievable with a reasonably aero trailer and more importantly, keeping it under 60mph, and of course assuming you buy the 450 mile battery.
  • Given 20%-80% desired charging range that’s 90mi - 360mi, or 270 miles net
  • With a 30% range loss from towing that’s 189 miles range, or 3 hours of driving @60mph
  • With an average driving day of under 6 hours, that‘s one charging stop
  • This is probably minimum, with a bit of care the numbers can be improved (e.g. charge to 90%, hypermile a bit, etc)

So basically most of the time I’d leave by 9-10AM, stop and charge and have lunch in the camper, then get to destination by 3PM-4PM. Then at the destination if we’re boondocking I’d just plug into the truck.

With this configuration there’s little need for solar, having 212 kWh on board, I’d probably start with no solar and just run off the truck, and otherwise try to strip aero killing stuff on the roof, and only put in a panel or two later if it would work better for whatever reason.

By the way on weight it especially doesn’t matter with EV’s. With that Silverado GM recommends putting the trailer gain on a low setting, and let all that trailer weight be managed by the truck, which is slowing on 100% regen.

Regeneration doesn’t end up throwing that much back into the battery ultimately. I’ve seen test runs of some tens of kWh’s going down big mountains, but when you add in the distance covered it does add up to something. And you’re not white knuckling it and burning brakes
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Old 07-24-2023, 07:53 PM   #142
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Correct, except weight doesnít matter too much. Hereís a calculation Iíve posted before

Assume 20%-80% desirable charging range, and 30% efficiency loss which is achievable with a reasonably aero trailer and more importantly, keeping it under 60mph, and of course assuming you buy the 450 mile battery.
  • Given 20%-80% desired charging range thatís 90mi - 360mi, or 270 miles net
  • With a 30% range loss from towing thatís 189 miles range, or 3 hours of driving @60mph
  • With an average driving day of under 6 hours, thatĎs one charging stop
  • This is probably minimum, with a bit of care the numbers can be improved (e.g. charge to 90%, hypermile a bit, etc)

So basically most of the time Iíd leave by 9-10AM, stop and charge and have lunch in the camper, then get to destination by 3PM-4PM. Then at the destination if weíre boondocking Iíd just plug into the truck.

With this configuration thereís little need for solar, having 212 kWh on board, Iíd probably start with no solar and just run off the truck, and otherwise try to strip aero killing stuff on the roof, and only put in a panel or two later if it would work better for whatever reason.
Wow. Informative post. Sounds like it will be a good fit. Any idea on timelines and ETAís?
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Old 07-24-2023, 08:06 PM   #143
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Wow. Informative post. Sounds like it will be a good fit. Any idea on timelines and ETAís?
Thanks, Iíve put some thought into it. AFAIK this most accurately predicts real world conditions - the main thing being the actual towing loss. If youíre a lead foot, or have a lossy trailer youíll probably get more like 50% loss.

Based on this Iíve been saying 400 mile range is minimum, and then GM came out with 450 so weíre covered. 500 mile range wouldnít hurt, but you donít need any more than that I think.

Well GM is having trouble spinning up battery production. Itís not like making cars for these automotive workers - clean room for one thing. Anyhow my reservation says next summer, but I wouldnít be surprised if it wasnít pushed to the following year. Which is just fine with me actually. It would be a model year bump with many changes, and Iíll be retiring that year so that would work out.
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Old 07-24-2023, 08:09 PM   #144
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Thanks, Iíve put some thought into it. AFAIK this most accurately predicts real world conditions - the main thing being the actual towing loss. If youíre a lead foot, or have a lossy trailer youíll probably get more like 50% loss.

Based on this Iíve been saying 400 mile range is minimum, and then GM came out with 450 so weíre covered. 500 mile range wouldnít hurt, but you donít need any more than that I think.

Well GM is having trouble spinning up battery production. Itís not like making cars for these automotive workers - clean room for one thing. Anyhow my reservation says next summer, but I wouldnít be surprised if it wasnít pushed to the following year. Which is just fine with me actually. It would be a model year bump with many changes, and Iíll be retiring that year so that would work out.

Yah. And itís probably not to get one if the first 50,000 or so anyway. Congrats.
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Old 07-24-2023, 08:33 PM   #145
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Yah. And it’s probably not to get one if the first 50,000 or so anyway. Congrats.
Not too worried about that actually, I got one of the first Bolt EV’s, first 10k batch probably, and still have it. It’s been a treat with nary a problem (minus the LG battery screwup, which just meant we got a free brand new battery). GM is super cautious and is really at the top of the heap with EV’s IMHO. I work with a production engineer who interned with them and has the inside scoop, nothing but respect.

Anyhow they’re being belt and suspenders with the Silverado, first customers are Fleet only who will wring out any remaining issues is the plan. There will be some RST sales later this summer, but us consumer slugs won’t be getting it until next year so I doubt we’ll have any troubles.

EV’s are different anyhow, I think basically the only way to get a lemon is if there’s a fundamental design issue that affects all of them. Anyhow thanks - and we’ll see, it’s an exciting time!
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Old 07-24-2023, 08:41 PM   #146
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Not too worried about that actually, I got one of the first Bolt EVís, first 10k batch probably, and still have it. Itís been a treat with nary a problem (minus the LG battery screwup, which just meant we got a free brand new battery). GM is super cautious and is really at the top of the heap with EVís IMHO. I work with a production engineer who interned with them and has the inside scoop, nothing but respect.

Anyhow theyíre being belt and suspenders with the Silverado, first customers are Fleet only who will wring out any remaining issues is the plan. There will be some RST sales later this summer, but us consumer slugs wonít be getting it until next year so I doubt weíll have any troubles.

EVís are different anyhow, I think basically the only way to get a lemon is if thereís a fundamental design issue that affects all of them. Anyhow thanks - and weíll see, itís an exciting time!
Makes sense. Kinda sad to see the bolt discontinued. Great little affordable EV.

Looking forward to hearing how it goes with your truck. We have a deposit on the Cybertruck, but unless we get a bigger trailer it wonít make sense for us. The combo we have is a good fit for us right now. We have a couple years to decide.
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Old 07-25-2023, 05:56 AM   #147
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EV vs ICE towing test

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Old 07-25-2023, 06:53 AM   #148
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Towing home from Triponds

We departed the campground with 94% charge (from TT-30 campsite outlet) and arrived at the Mishawaka Supercharger with 34% charge after 92 miles. We had ordered lunch ahead from the nearby Five Guys, so I took advantage of the break to enjoy my burger sitting at the picnic table next to our charger. We had sufficient charge before I had finished. I did not record the percent charge, but the Tesla navigation stated there was sufficient charge to make it home and that we were billed $12.00.
We arrived home 90 miles later with a comfortable 22% remaining.
Overall it was an easy tow, spanning several days and two campgrounds. The round trip was 394 miles, using 165 kWh and averaging a respectable 419 Wh/mile. Our out of pocket energy cost was $18.10 .
Seems that we are getting better (and certainly more comfortable) with EV towing as time goes on. We have now EV towed 5,028 miles in the past year.
I look forward to hearing real-world towing experiences from more of our fiberglass rv friends.
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Old 07-25-2023, 07:04 AM   #149
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Nice report. I have to convert to kilometres but it seems like you are about the same efficiency as us on our last trip. Our last trip was about 2200 kilometres for around 122 dollars (Canadian currency).

Enjoy your camping summer.

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Old 07-25-2023, 08:04 AM   #150
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This has been a really informative thread. I don't have an EV, but am very interested to read about real world experiences. I am bookmarking this so I can re-read and to see new entries. Thank you all so much.
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Old 07-25-2023, 12:12 PM   #151
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Makes sense. Kinda sad to see the bolt discontinued. Great little affordable EV.
Some updates from yesterdays GM quarterly report; the Bolt is officially not discontinued! They will release an Ultium version. This was expected, Mary’s been hinting at it and it’s obvious, the car has got a cult following. A small hatch EV is just insanely fun to drive, the only thing we’ve worn out is tires because I love zipping around in it so much.

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Looking forward to hearing how it goes with your truck. We have a deposit on the Cybertruck, but unless we get a bigger trailer it won’t make sense for us. The combo we have is a good fit for us right now.
Also an update from GM, the Silverado RST 1st edition won’t start production until early 2024, so basically I don’t see any chance my reservation comes up in Summer 2024. I pulled the trigger on a reservation a few months after they opened, partially because I didn’t want a RST, and second was I was on the fence as I was planning on a VW Buzz (which bombed out due to inferior software - and frankly the MEB platform has nothing on Ultium). Anyhow GM battery production is halted because of a supplier issue right now. They’ve got such great EV’s but just need those batteries …

I was thrilled with the Cybertruck initially due to the 500 mile advertised range (IIRC). But GM has the 450 mile Silverado, and there’s enough EV backlash among some people I wouldn’t want to drive the CT a lot of places. Guarantee some numnuts will take a sledgehammer to your window to test that unbreakable glass, that broke during the unveiling. Or just take a hammer to it because they hate EV’s, or whatever. Plus anyhow I don’t want something that out there - just IMHO, I’m sure it’ll be a great truck for a lot of people.

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We have a couple years to decide.
Yeah pretty sure same here which is fine. I’m tacking on another year or two on my retirement to afford a Bigfoot and a Silverado, looking like it will all come together in 2025 maybe, but I’ll put out posts about how it goes.
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Old 07-25-2023, 01:14 PM   #152
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Some updates from yesterdays GM quarterly report; the Bolt is officially not discontinued! They will release an Ultium version. This was expected, Maryís been hinting at it and itís obvious, the car has got a cult following. A small hatch EV is just insanely fun to drive, the only thing weíve worn out is tires because I love zipping around in it so much.



Also an update from GM, the Silverado RST 1st edition wonít start production until early 2024, so basically I donít see any chance my reservation comes up in Summer 2024. I pulled the trigger on a reservation a few months after they opened, partially because I didnít want a RST, and second was I was on the fence as I was planning on a VW Buzz (which bombed out due to inferior software - and frankly the MEB platform has nothing on Ultium). Anyhow GM battery production is halted because of a supplier issue right now. Theyíve got such great EVís but just need those batteries Ö

I was thrilled with the Cybertruck initially due to the 500 mile advertised range (IIRC). But GM has the 450 mile Silverado, and thereís enough EV backlash among some people I wouldnít want to drive the CT a lot of places. Guarantee some numnuts will take a sledgehammer to your window to test that unbreakable glass, that broke during the unveiling. Or just take a hammer to it because they hate EVís, or whatever. Plus anyhow I donít want something that out there - just IMHO, Iím sure itíll be a great truck for a lot of people.



Yeah pretty sure same here which is fine. Iím tacking on another year or two on my retirement to afford a Bigfoot and a Silverado, looking like it will all come together in 2025 maybe, but Iíll put out posts about how it goes.
Lol . Any of us driving EVís who are having fun are going thru tiresÖwhich is kinda the point. I suspect weíll be changing ours out by 50,000 kilometresÖbut I donít care. That torque just makes it too fun to resist pushing that go pedal to the floor. .

Glad to hear the Bolt will live on.
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Old 07-26-2023, 12:57 AM   #153
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...And youíre not white knuckling it and burning brakes

With a REAL truck you'd never have to white knuckle it and if you know what you're doing, never touch the brakes coming down off a 12,000 foot summit. I do it all the time.
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Old 07-26-2023, 05:55 AM   #154
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Old 07-31-2023, 05:21 PM   #155
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I have a 2000 Casita patriot standard and I want to replace my 2003 Mazda tribute with an EV SUV. Does anyone have a suggestion? Does one exist yet?
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Old 07-31-2023, 05:40 PM   #156
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I have a 2000 Casita patriot standard and I want to replace my 2003 Mazda tribute with an EV SUV. Does anyone have a suggestion? Does one exist yet?
Depends. What is the weight (loaded for camping) and hitch weight of the Casita.
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Old 07-31-2023, 05:43 PM   #157
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I have a 2000 Casita patriot standard and I want to replace my 2003 Mazda tribute with an EV SUV. Does anyone have a suggestion? Does one exist yet?
The Tesla Model Y Long Range has a 3,500 pound towing capacity that should easily handle your 13 ft Casita. Our MYLR tows our Trillium 4500 very well. You could check out the Tesla Towing Club on Facebook and ask if anyone in your area would mind hooking on to your trailer for a test tow. If you were in my area, I would be happy to do that.
There may be other SUV EVs with sufficient towing capacity that I am unaware.
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Old 07-31-2023, 05:59 PM   #158
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Patriots came 13, 16, and 17 feet. the latter two had a 3500 lb GWR, but a standard doesn't have a toilet, shower, or black tank, just a fresh water and grey tank for the kitchen sink. the deluxe version added the toilet/shower and black tanks.
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:15 PM   #159
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googling suggests, a 2003 tribute 4x4 with the tow package can tow 3500 lbs, so comparable to the Tesla Y. Without the factory tow, its limited to 2000 lbs. A 2WD (FWD) Tribute is limited to 1000 lbs. The payload rating is around 1000 lbs give or take options and trim package, so if your 3500 lb trailer is perfectly balanced with a 350 lb tongue weight, and your class III hitch assembly and tow bar weight under 100 lbs, that leaves about 550 lbs for driver+passengers plus luggage.

i don't know the payload offhand for a tesla y
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:22 PM   #160
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googling suggests, a 2003 tribute 4x4 with the tow package can tow 3500 lbs, so comparable to the Tesla Y. Without the factory tow, its limited to 2000 lbs. A 2WD (FWD) Tribute is limited to 1000 lbs. The payload rating is around 1000 lbs give or take options and trim package, so if your 3500 lb trailer is perfectly balanced with a 350 lb tongue weight, and your class III hitch assembly and tow bar weight under 100 lbs, that leaves about 550 lbs for driver+passengers plus luggage.

i don't know the payload offhand for a tesla y
The 3500 pound tow capacity of the tesla model Y is rated with car loaded to GVWR as per the manual. The weak link on the model Y is the 3500 pound rated hitch. The model X uses a 5000 pound rated hitch.
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