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Old 03-03-2022, 09:32 AM   #1
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Name: RogerDat
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Traction and weight distribution hitch

I tow a Scamp 16 with an Escape V6 having a 3,500 lb. tow capacity and factory 3.5k hitch.

My issue is the vehicle is front wheel drive only rather than all wheel drive. Pile weight on the back end of vehicle by putting trailer on hitch and it takes weight off the front wheels. Has already proved a bit of a challenge on some boondock driving situations. I find coming up out of a dip the tires really want to slip.

Trailer is going downhill on one side of dip pushing down on hitch, vehicle is going uphill on the other and the hitch is getting lots of downward pressure. At sufficient speed I'm sure I could get through most anything but.... Trailer might not be in one piece at the speeds required in certain situations

My question is would a weight distribution hitch by shifting weight toward center of vehicle put more traction on those front wheels? Has anyone towed with FWD and a WDH in boondock roads so as to be able to report results?

Also as I understand it some WDH can be backed up and some can't. Anti-sway configurations have the same issue. I can tell you sometimes backing up and taking another run at it is the only way down the road (sand especially) so I would think a hitch that doesn't allow backing up without disconnecting the device would sort of defeat the purpose of device providing more traction to the drive wheels.

I like my Escape and would rather buy a WDH hitch than a different tow vehicle if that would address the traction on back roads issue. On the other hand just because I take a come-along and some self-help gear doesn't mean I want to use it to get unstuck on a regular basis.

I like FWD for the better gas mileage, fewer repairs to the less complicated drive train. Having the weight of the AWD drive train that isn't there available for my gear is also nice. On the other hand I like rustic and boondock camping. Both for the price and the solitude. Hoping the WDH can make that more feasible.
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Old 03-03-2022, 10:11 AM   #2
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We are in the same situation (Pilot V6 FWD) and have experienced the same problem. Disabling the stability control system to allow a bit of wheel spin has gotten us through so far. With stability control on, any wheel spin will cause the system to reduce engine power and brake selected wheels, bringing the whole rig to a standstill going up a slope. As you say, powering through is a bit rough on the trailer.

We're not regular boondockers, so it's been a rare situation for us. Since WDH basically stiffens the hitch connection, I would be concerned that crossing dips and berms with the tug and trailer in different planes will put excessive force on the frames of both vehicles.
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Old 03-03-2022, 10:52 AM   #3
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WDH

Having used a WDH for years, you need one.
The one I have uses the chains.
Just tighten up the chains, will shift more weight to the front.
Just don't buy a 10,000 lb hitch for a 4000 lb trailer. 5000 lb rating is right.

WDH also takes the thrill out of whoop-de-doos. (Large undulations)
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Old 03-03-2022, 12:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerDat View Post
My question is would a weight distribution hitch by shifting weight toward center of vehicle put more traction on those front wheels?
Absolutely!

Think of the extreme case; the hitch is so heavy that the front wheels of the tow vehicle are off the ground. In this case your traction would be zero.

Add weight to the drive wheels and you add traction, just like carrying sand in the trunk of the older rear-wheel drive cars.
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There are many WDH's with integrated anti-sway which allow backing without disconnecting.

This is an excellent video illustrating weight transfer.

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Old 03-03-2022, 01:03 PM   #5
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Name: Ed
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Weight Distribution Hitch

I use an Equal-I-zer hitch on my Jeep. This hitch provides sway control as well as the ability to level the tow vehicle. Using this hitch you can level your Escape and have the traction you need to go where you want to go.

https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Dist...EQ37060ET.html
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Old 03-03-2022, 01:15 PM   #6
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WDH & Sway Control

In my case, I had a Curt 17500 weight distribution hitch with trunnion bars just before I got my Casita Spirit Deluxe. That hitch with its 10,000 lbs gross trailer weight and 1,000 lbs tongue weight capacities is clearly overkill for my trailer. However, it has sway control built in eliminating the need for a separate sway bar.

The tow limit on my Chevy Colorado is 3500 lbs with 15% of that limit for tongue weight. Since Casitas tend to be tongue weight heavy, the WDH helps mitigate that limit.

Unless I’m backing into a “no brainer” camping site, I remove the spring bars before backing into the site. No need to fight the sway control and weight distribution at that point of the journey.
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Old 03-03-2022, 01:29 PM   #7
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I'm pondering a less capable tow vehicle that might require a WD hitch. Does anyone know if using one impacts the electronic stability/traction features? I'm wondering if moving weight around via the hitch might confuse things. I couldn't find anything by Googling so I'm likely way off base.
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Old 03-03-2022, 01:58 PM   #8
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I was looking at this one for a Scamp 16 the weight comes in a bit over 2k pounds but under 3k so it seemed like it would be sufficient.

https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Dist...x/BXW0350.html

Does proper tongue weight of say 10% get changed by a WDH? Is there less weight on the tongue since some has shifted forward was my thought.

I did wonder if with all that hitch bar sticking down if they had more tendency to hit the ground. One nice thing about the 16 ft is it has pretty good ground clearance.

That is an interesting question on traction/stability controls. The weight on the vehicle wouldn't be constant would it? Bumps and such that caused the trailer to bear down on the hitch would change vehicle weight right? But I can't imagine by that much. If one can tow with a 350 pound tongue weight I can't imagine the trailer could cause that to change a whole lot from road bumps or the trailer would overload the hitch on rough roads.
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Old 03-03-2022, 02:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ShelbyM View Post
I'm pondering a less capable tow vehicle that might require a WD hitch. Does anyone know if using one impacts the electronic stability/traction features? I'm wondering if moving weight around via the hitch might confuse things. I couldn't find anything by Googling so I'm likely way off base.
It certainly can. There have been cases with the Anderson WDH where the Ford stability system alerted that there was a problem. This was discussed on the Oliver website some time ago as the Anderson is the preferred WDH for those trailers. Preferred because it can go on an Oliver without cutting any fiberglass, but I think they are a bad design.

The part that really got me was that Anderson simply recommended to turn off the stability control system in the tow vehicle! Yikes! I jumped on that and challenged them about their seemingly terrible suggestion, but they never responded and I don't know of any other resolution that was agreed upon.
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Old 03-03-2022, 02:54 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by RogerDat View Post

Does proper tongue weight of say 10% get changed by a WDH? Is there less weight on the tongue since some has shifted forward was my thought.
As you know, the WDH really changes the whole dynamics of the loads between the trailer and the tow. The stresses are much greater in that area with the WDH, but the actual tongue weight is not, it is simply overcome by other forces.

Imagine if you had the trailer rigidly connected to the tow with no flexible joint, or trailer hitch. Just one rigid connection between the two.

With that setup, you could simply remove the rear wheels from the tow, no bend would occur at the connection, and the weight of the rear of the tow vehicle would be shared by the tow front wheels and the trailer wheels.

That is an extreme example of what the WDH does. But, of course, there is some flexibility at the joint, so only some weight is transferred from the rear wheels to the trailer and tow front wheels.

I'll go way out of my way to avoid using a WDH. A heavy duty truck is better for me and it solves other problems too. Trying to use a light weight, undersized front drive vehicle to tow with just doesn't work for me.
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Old 03-03-2022, 03:23 PM   #11
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It's a matter of weight distribution. You may not need a WDH if you are careful how you load the TV and trailer.
1 - Don't carry heavy items in the back of the car. If possible place them in the space between front and rear seats. any weight ahead of the rear axle adds to the front axle.
2 - shorten the ball mount to get the ball as close as possible to the car.
3 - place stuff inside the trailer to keep the hitch weight low, but no less than 10%. and set ball height so trailer is level, or a bit low in front.
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Old 03-03-2022, 03:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Wayne Collins View Post
It's a matter of weight distribution. You may not need a WDH if you are careful how you load the TV and trailer.
1 - Don't carry heavy items in the back of the car. If possible place them in the space between front and rear seats. any weight ahead of the rear axle adds to the front axle.
2 - shorten the ball mount to get the ball as close as possible to the car.
3 - place stuff inside the trailer to keep the hitch weight low, but no less than 10%. and set ball height so trailer is level, or a bit low in front.
All good advice. I'm at level and was going to try getting an inch or so lower ball mount. I don't like how the trailer feels at above about 62 - 65 mph. Feels "greasy" like it would sway given an excuse. Faster makes it feel less stable. So a little down angle may help with that.

I have the rear seats down and do put some canned goods in that area but... the dog also has a cleared area behind the front seats which limits somewhat how much weight I can load in that area. Even if I pack it so the dog is in the way back I doubt she will stay there. Got her to understand the front seat is off limits but not able to look out the front window? Kidding me right? Also letting her out the side door on curb side is generally safer than out the rear lift gate.

I did consider a larger vehicle but I have 3,500 tow capacity for a 2,300 pound trailer and enjoy getting 15 mpg towing at moderate speeds while able to handle mountain grades without too much difficulty with just a V6. In general daily driving mileage is more like 24 - 25 mpg and I do a lot more of that than towing. A full size truck would be overkill for 90% or more of my driving. I use a utility trailer when a truck bed would be useful.

It may be that I will have to consider all wheel drive vehicle but a WDH is a whole lot less expensive than buying another vehicle if it will do the job of helping out my FWD traction in loose dirt or wet ground. Need to remember to turn off the Traction and stability control too. I forget that one driving up my driveway in snow all the time. Can boogie right up with it off. Sit and spin with it on.
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Old 03-03-2022, 04:14 PM   #13
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BTW that video in post #4 is well worth watching. I hadn't considered the shift of weight to the trailer axle by a WDH but I seem to recall that more weight centered on or just in front of the trailer axle reduced inclination to sway.
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Old 03-03-2022, 06:40 PM   #14
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Roger, read up in your owner's manual to see what Ford might have to say about using a WDH.

Like Raspy, I try to avoid using a WDH. Unlike Raspy, I am not a truck guy, and our garage won't even accommodate today's full-size ones.

Our JGC is rated for towing 720/7,200 lbs. The loaded trailer weights are about 450 on the ball and 4,050 on the axle, so about 4,500 total.

The Jeep manual says "If the gross trailer weight is 5,000lbs(2,267kg) or more, it is recommended to use a weight-distributing hitch".

That seems a bit opaque as gross weight is normally used in reference to a rating, not an actual load.

In any event, I feel like I might benefit from having one but I've been dodging the attendant expense and the additional complications and effort of having one.

The Blue Ox Sway Pro is at the top of the list I maintain. It's trunnion-bar style which doesn't hang as low as bent round-bar hitches, and it's apparently very quiet which is one of my big criteria.

Blue Ox used to provide a pretty cheesy sheet-metal wrench to operate the latches, but they now provide what appears to be a cast or forged lug wrench. I have always figured I would just use the 1/2" breaker bar and sockets with a 6-inch extension that I carry for tire work.

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Bottom line here, if you'll kindly send one of these hitches my way, I'll be happy to provide a full review!
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Old 03-03-2022, 06:46 PM   #15
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PS: Don't worry about the weight on the ball, unless you've always had an interest in learning how to develop free-body diagrams to asses the forces involved. Personally, I just leave all that to the product engineers.

Basically, a WDH is like loading a hinge (the ball and coupler) with a strong spring. The spring bars then act like wheelbarrow handles on the back of the tow vehicle, lifting the back end and effectively shifting a portion of the load forward onto the front axle.

Here's a couple of pictures of front-wheel-drive Toronados towing with no rear tires. I think Floyd has posted these and/or others in the past.

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Old 03-04-2022, 08:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerDat View Post
My issue is the vehicle is front wheel drive only rather than all wheel drive. Pile weight on the back end of vehicle by putting trailer on hitch and it takes weight off the front wheels. Has already proved a bit of a challenge on some boondock driving situations. I find coming up out of a dip the tires really want to slip.
...
I like my Escape and would rather buy a WDH hitch than a different tow vehicle if that would address the traction on back roads issue [emphasis added].
Highway driving is not the primary issue here. Many FWD crossovers are engineered to handle the rated tongue weight in normal highway driving without WDH (mine actually advises against using it). And yes, I understand you can improve handling and ride quality by using one on the highway.

However, I’m still waiting to hear how WDH handles the kinds of boondocking situations severe enough to cause loss of front wheel traction- that was the question as I understand it. What happens when you drive though a dip in the road with the trailer angled down and the tow vehicle headed up the other side? Or when you cross an angled berm and the tug and trailer lean in opposite directions? Or transition to a steep grade on loose gravel with the trailer flat and the tug angled uphill? How much off-plane angle can WDH handle without damage to hitch or vehicles? Do you have to disconnect WDH under certain conditions?

I’m not talking rock-crawling or Jeep trails, just the kinds of situations I have occasionally encountered on “improved” forest service roads that cause issues for a FWD tow vehicle.
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Old 03-04-2022, 11:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
I’m still waiting to hear how WDH handles the kinds of boondocking situations severe enough to cause loss of front wheel traction- that was the question as I understand it. What happens when you drive though a dip in the road with the trailer angled down and the tow vehicle headed up the other side? Or when you cross an angled berm and the tug and trailer lean in opposite directions? Or transition to a steep grade on loose gravel with the trailer flat and the tug angled uphill? How much off-plane angle can WDH handle without damage to hitch or vehicles? Do you have to disconnect WDH under certain conditions?
Well, a weight distribution system is certainly no substitute for four-wheel drive.

As mentioned, WDH spring bars are like wheelbarrow handles attached to the back of the tow vehicle. The WDH chains (or other attachment to the trailer frame) lift on the "handles". As the vehicle profiles form a "V", concave upward, the spring tension and corresponding weight distribution increase. When crossing a high point, or a crown, the spring tension decreases.

So, there would be positive impacts on traction for a front-wheel drive in the concave "V" situation, where it's needed. In the case of crossing a crown or high point, a reduction in improvement would occur where the traction is less critical.

Diagonal crossings are always dodgy. They place the weight on opposite corners of a vehicle with corresponding challenges to achieving traction as differentials attempt to do their job.

Concerning structural aspects, there are moment (rotational) loads on the hitch, concentrated downward loads on the trailer frame where the chains are attached to the ends of the spring bars, and increased upward pressure on the coupler.

I don't recall seeing reports of failures in uni-body or more-traditionally-framed tow vehicles attributed to WDH's, despite years of ongoing speculation in that regard on many RV and vehicle forums. Nor do I recall seeing any "my weight distribution system tweaked my trailer frame!" posts.

Given that people complain on forums about every conceivable subject under the sun, I consider the apparent absence of these posts to be significant evidence in itself.

The companies who design vehicles and components provide load ratings and usage directions. The structural failures we see anymore are rare, and often associated with smaller businesses with no or limited organic engineering capability, such as when some of the original 3-inch Escape box frames were found to have weaknesses that prompted a recall.

But, outright structural failures tend to be very rare in general. In the case of trailer frames, they seem to often relate to trailers built back in the 70's or earlier, many of which have degraded due to corrosion through decades of service.

(An exception might be currently reported failures related to Lippert's frames on larger travel trailers, but that's a different story altogether.)

Of course, this is all hypothetical. But, the offer stands; if you'll kindly send one of these hitches my way I'll be happy to provide a full review!
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Old 03-04-2022, 04:33 PM   #18
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I'm an exclusive boondocker. Highway travel isn't much of an issue but backcountry travel, up and down steep grades, rutted trails etc. can be a challenge.
While front wheel drive vehicles may be rated for towing, they aren't a good choice for other than occasional towing and not a good choice for the added demands of off road towing as durability under these conditions can be an issue.
A WDH does not alter tongue weight but rather distributes it over the four wheels. In effect, a WDH makes the chassis of the tug and the trailer a single unit, with some but limited flex at the ball.
Safe steering and braking depends on sufficient weight on the front wheels. A WDH serves this purpose which is more important then traction.
I've seem rear wheel drive tugs using a WDH hitch lose traction crossing depressions in the trail because the WDH distributes the vehicle/trailer weight to the trailer wheels and the tugs front wheels with little or no weight on the rear (drive) wheels of the vehicle.
A WDH will increase the highway stability of any tug. Off roading a WDH is of limited value. Boondocking with a front wheel drive vehicle will likely be challenging.
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Old 03-04-2022, 11:11 PM   #19
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Old 03-04-2022, 11:33 PM   #20
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Sweet! Who says we have to choose between an SUV and a pickup!
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