Trailer too light for tow vehicle?

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by bertherr

The clothes pin analogy is interesting. The tow vehicles rear wheels would not lift off the ground from increased tongue weight but would lift if the tv's front wheels raised somehow. Increased tongue weight just adds more load to the tv's front suspension, correct?

Hmm. I think I might not have done anyone a service by mentioning the clothes pin.

I have attached an illustration of what I meant by this.

In the first illustration, the tow vehicle and the trailer's wheels are all on the ground. The red arrows show how the forces of the WDH springs effectively act on the trailer and vehicle frames.

In the second case, the springs are so crazy-strong that they lift the tow vehicle's rear wheels right off the ground. If they were even stronger, the trailer and vehicle would pivot even further upward in the center (at the hitch) until they were parallel like the two legs of a clothes pin.

So, the WDH springs are taking that portion of the trailer's total weight that bears on the tongue (which tends to load or perhaps even over-load the tow vehicle's rear wheels and axle when there is no weight distribution hitch) and re-distributing the load to the other wheels and axles. The tow vehicle and the trailer's frames act like the two legs of the clothes pin to transmit the forces from the loads and the springs.

Does this help?

[floyd]

Remember this?

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by tgrabows

I think this may be my first post and I tried to do my due diligence in finding if someone else had already brought this up but does anyone else have the problem where the trailer seems to get rag dolled behind a seemingly oversized tow vehicle (1977 Surfside TM-14/2010 Dodge 2500hd Diesel)?

Would adding a weight distributing hitch and sway bars help me to keep the trailer down?

Thanks

We pull our trailer with a 2013 Yukon XL 8 passenger with 6L engine (we call it a beast with it being so big). We made sure the trailer sits level and use a simple sway bar. No problems with trailer. We only drive about 58MPH since the trailer says to not tow above 60MPH. Don't have any problems. We've also towed with a 2500 Chev van and a 6 cyl Trailblazer all with good results. Always making sure the trailer is level.

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by floyd

Remember this?

Floyd,

That's it exactly!

[bertherr]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

Hmm. I think I might not have done anyone a service by mentioning the clothes pin.

I have attached an illustration of what I meant by this.

In the first illustration, the tow vehicle and the trailer's wheels are all on the ground. The red arrows show how the forces of the WDH springs effectively act on the trailer and vehicle frames.

In the second case, the springs are so crazy-strong that they lift the tow vehicle's rear wheels right off the ground. If they were even stronger, the trailer and vehicle would pivot even further upward in the center (at the hitch) until they were parallel like the two legs of a clothes pin.

So, the WDH springs are taking that portion of the trailer's total weight that bears on the tongue (which tends to load or perhaps even over-load the tow vehicle's rear wheels and axle when there is no weight distribution hitch) and re-distributing the load to the other wheels and axles. The tow vehicle and the trailer's frames act like the two legs of the clothes pin to transmit the forces from the loads and the springs.

Does this help?

I do not believe that the illustration #2 is possible with just strong WDH springs (bars). The picture of the two Eldorados are possible. The illustration #2 would only be possible if the bar was a coiled spring that was un-coiled to attach to the WDH chains. So if you say replace the WDH bar with a super strong coiled spring then illustration #2 is possible. Thanks

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by bertherr

I do not believe that the illustration #2 is possible with just strong WDH springs (bars). The picture of the two Eldorados are possible. The illustration #2 would only be possible if the bar was a coiled spring that was un-coiled to attach to the WDH chains. So if you say replace the WDH bar with a super strong coiled spring then illustration #2 is possible. Thanks

Robert,

I am not actually clear what you are saying. This was intended to be a schematic diagram to illustrate the effect of WDH springs.

As far as what's possible, I guess I didn't mention above that the relevant parts were machined out of Unobtanium. Among it's many unique properties is the fact that it is completely invisible to the naked eye.

The particulars of the design are moreover automatically filtered from viewing on the Internet so that America's enemies don't learn the top-secret design processes involved.

On the other hand, they can have all the Oldsmobile Toronados they like as they have been superseded by the Chevy Citation.

[bertherr]

If the tow vehicle's rear wheels were off of the ground then the WDH bar ends would be above the frame of the trailer.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

Robert,

I am not actually clear what you are saying. This was intended to be a schematic diagram to illustrate the effect of WDH springs.

As far as what's possible, I guess I didn't mention above that the relevant parts were machined out of Unobtanium. Among it's many unique properties is the fact that it is completely invisible to the naked eye.

The particulars of the design are moreover automatically filtered from viewing on the Internet so that America's enemies don't learn the top-secret design processes involved.

On the other hand, they can have all the Oldsmobile Toronados they like as they have been superseded by the Chevy Citation.

still holds the record for the most recalls on the year of introduction!

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by bertherr

If the tow vehicle's rear wheels were off of the ground then the WDH bar ends would be above the frame of the trailer.

Ah, yes, now I see what you mean.

I was trying to illustrate the basic effect that WDH springs have on a trailer and a tow vehicle. However, I think Floyd nailed it better with the photos. (Sorry about posting the Citation Floyd; I know you respect good machinery!)

Here's the next iteration. Of course, now the silly thing can't be steered as the hinge only moves around one axis.

[bertherr]

Let's say you had a very long wheel based tow vehicle, used a WDH, & a very long trailer. If you came apon a very deep dip in the road, that would fit between the TV's front wheels & the trailer's wheels, could the TV's rear wheels actually lift & lose traction? Has anyone had something similar happen to them? Thanks

[Jon in AZ]

I suspect something would bend or break before that happened.

[Robert Detrick]

I put radial passanger tires on my 13 ft. scamp and bounce is gone

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Robert Detrick

I put radial passanger tires on my 13 ft. scamp and bounce is gone

Have you verified that your axle is in good condition? Passenger radials allow more sidewall flex than ST tires and may be providing the cushioning that your axle should be providing. However, that same sidewall flex makes them more susceptible to sway when installed on a trailer. What pressure are you running?