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Old 01-23-2020, 07:09 PM   #21
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Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Did you ever tow a Scamp13?
No but I did tow a Scamp 16 standard with a 1999 Ram V6 1/2 ton truck
I was not happy with the whole experience, felt like the trailer was in control of the vehicle . I traded off the truck and sold the trailer and moved on
Yesterday , we went shopping and picked up some 40 / 50 lb bags/ sacks of sand , ice bite , dog food , bird seed plus some odds and ends
Loaded all the stuff in the back of my wife’s small SUV
We made it home safely and my opinion about towing / hauling with a small SUV was reinforced
Like I said it’s a great commuter vehicle nothing more- nothing less

PS ; Do you plan on attending the May rally in Mcgregor Iowa ?
Hope to see you there

Steve D
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Old 01-23-2020, 08:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
No but I did tow a Scamp 16 standard with a 1999 Ram V6 1/2 ton truck
I was not happy with the whole experience, felt like the trailer was in control of the vehicle . I traded off the truck and sold the trailer and moved on
Yesterday , we went shopping and picked up some 40 / 50 lb bags/ sacks of sand , ice bite , dog food , bird seed plus some odds and ends
Loaded all the stuff in the back of my wife’s small SUV
We made it home safely and my opinion about towing / hauling with a small SUV was reinforced
Like I said it’s a great commuter vehicle nothing more- nothing less

PS ; Do you plan on attending the May rally in Mcgregor Iowa ?
Hope to see you there

Steve D
Mcgregor IA. I haven't heard of it yet but I"ll check it out.
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Old 01-23-2020, 08:30 PM   #23
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Name: Neville
Trailer: Trails West Campster
Ida Home
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Towing with a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Fact is the Escape will tow a Scamp13 better than your Chevy 1500"".
They don't have the laugh till you cry smiley on here so Ha Ha Ha! I am willing to take up that challenge at any time. Let me know when you head west. I have over 300hp and pretty close to 400 fp of torque made to pull a horse trailer at 70mph. In the mountains!




My Transit Connect 2.5L 4CYL has regularly surpassed 25MPG at 60MPH towing through Tennessee and Georgia. At 2200 rpm.
Whoopie! Come out west where the real mountains are. You won't see either 60mph or 2200 rpm towing unless your trailer is pushing that Transit Connect downhill.



Our 2008 Escape 2.3L normal aspirated 4Cyl is still in service having towed my Scamp13 about 5-6 thousand miles per year.for ten years it is now my son's daily driver.
That vehicle, after 12 years and 150000 miles, is still perfectly capable of towing my Scamp13 for another 4000 mile trip to Florida without using a drop of oil or even opening the hood.
Fine. You do that. Just stay east of the Mississippi


The Joke is squarely on you if you don't believe in using the right tool for the job at hand.
I believe in using the right tool. I just don't believe a Ford Escape is the right tool. A transit connect is definitely not the right tool for towing.



You don't trust the manufacturer's or SAE's tow ratings even when towing at 40%. No! Who should we trust? Am I to believe that my experience and judgement, informed by my vehicle's ratings and J2807, and then reduced by more than half would still be carelessness compared to towing a 4800# horse trailer at 70MPH?
You see those big rigs on the road? 105000# at 70, sometimes 80. 30' horse trailer with accommodation? 70mph. My little old rig happily hauls at 70 with 2 horses who are very comfortably eating their hay or looking at the scenery.

Why don't you try and tow your vehicles rating one day in a real life situation? I know you won't, because you take that rating and then make your own safeguards. Sounds like you really trust the manufacturers rating, doesn't it.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:21 PM   #24
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Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Mcgregor IA. I haven't heard of it yet but I"ll check it out.
It’s the rally at Pikes Peak SP in McGregor Iowa
If I remember correctly you were at the rally last May
You were driving your Ford Transit Connect
Check this forum for the rally under the name “Pink Elephant”
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:06 AM   #25
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Control is about weight distribution, equipment (brakes, sway control, WDH if warranted), and driver skill (alertness, steady steering, defensive driving).

I remember getting caught behind a large truck pulling a snowmobile an a windy, icy stretch of road. It started swaying- the snowmobile appeared to be loaded too far back on the trailer. It whipped back and forth, took out several roadside markers, and did some damage to the back of the truck before it finally came to a stop across both lanes of traffic. Small trailer, big truck.

Sure, it might have been even worse with a smaller vehicle. It did stay upright. But the loss of control was not caused by the vehicle. Improper weight distribution, lack of trailer brakes, and driver error caused the mishap.

Nothing wrong with a larger vehicle if desired, but it’s no substitute for the things that really matter.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:45 AM   #26
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Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
Control is about weight distribution, equipment (brakes, sway control, WDH if warranted), and driver skill (alertness, steady steering, defensive driving).

I remember getting caught behind a large truck pulling a snowmobile an a windy, icy stretch of road. It started swaying- the snowmobile appeared to be loaded too far back on the trailer. It whipped back and forth, took out several roadside markers, and did some damage to the back of the truck before it finally came to a stop across both lanes of traffic. Small trailer, big truck.

Sure, it might have been even worse with a smaller vehicle. It did stay upright. But the loss of control was not caused by the vehicle. Improper weight distribution, lack of trailer brakes, and driver error caused the mishap.

Nothing wrong with a larger vehicle if desired, but it’s no substitute for the things that really matter.

I agree that you can safely tow a FG trailer with a small vehicle such as a Ford Ranger or Chevy Colorado or Dodge Durango if you load the trailer properly , employ the proper hitch , use sway control , exercise caution ,and drive defensively
I also realize a bigger tow vehicle does not insure a safe trouble free tow
I just don’t want to drive , or tow with a small compact vehicle .
Towing with a small vehicle is an unpleasant, nerve racking , unenjoyable , white knuckle experience for me
Towing at or over my vehicles limit holds no appeal
The obsessive concern about fuel mileage regardless of safety baffles me

Two types of people towing that scare me . ( not all inclusive)

I The 20 to 30 year old male with a jacked up truck towing a trailer in traffic and jockeying for position
2) The guy towing a heavy trailer with his sub compact car going down the highway at 30 MPH , swaying in the wind and his headlights shining up to the heavens
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Old 01-24-2020, 10:29 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
It’s the rally at Pikes Peak SP in McGregor Iowa
If I remember correctly you were at the rally last May
You were driving your Ford Transit Connect
Check this forum for the rally under the name “Pink Elephant”
Right! We were there last year! Thanks.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:00 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Villen View Post
Why don't you try and tow your vehicles rating one day in a real life situation? I know you won't, because you take that rating and then make your own safeguards. Sounds like you really trust the manufacturers rating, doesn't it.
Been there done that, and the fact is... most of the most challenging grades in the country are east of the Mississippi.
Going to Scamp Camp every year we have crossed the steepest sustained grade in the United States interstate system many times.


I tried to make the point repeatedly to your deaf ears, that the OP is proposing towing less than HALF of the Escape's tow rating.


If you had followed my posts at all you would see that I have never advocated trusting a single source for anything.
I have repeatedly said that you should educate yourself and then assume responsibility for your choices.


We have made several trips to the west coast some while towing our Scamp13D
Usually with a normally aspirated 4CYL Escape (2006 and 2008.)


When I used the term "better" to describe pulling a Scamp13 with an Escape, I was referring to better stability, better maneuverability, better comfort and certainly better fuel economy. We don't tow above 62MPH even when overpowered like when towing with our former Ranger.


We have towed just about everything there is with just about everything there is , in real world situations. Some near the tow rating, some not so close.
In the case of towing the Scamp13, my Transit Connect or my Escape does well near the tow limit, at 62MPH, with the N/A 4CYL, due to the fact that the chassis is not the limiting factor.


I am sorry to have offended you, but... do you really advocate towing above the rated weight limit while driving above the legal speed limit?


Now for your hypothetical...
Let's see... A 30' horse trailer with accommodations ,2 horses, and several bales of hay on the roof, towed by a Chevy1500.
Challenged on MontEagle by my Transit Connect towing my Scamp13D loaded to the tow rating....
In the real world I pass you at the speed limit on the way up, wait for you at top while having lunch at the rest area, then pass you again at the speed limit going down the other side.
Then we turn around do it all again in the other direction.


In conclusion, I am sure you are a sensible person, so I only ask that you continue to educate yourself, err on the side of common sense, and take responsibility for your choices.
I enjoy your posts and hope to continue to learn something from each of them for some time to come.







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Old 01-24-2020, 11:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
No but I did tow a Scamp 16 standard with a 1999 Ram V6 1/2 ton truck

Steve D
I wonder if that Ram was even rated to tow a 16' Scamp? I think the V6 back then was pretty anemic.
I had a later model Ram V-6 manual transmission that had to be downshifted on Interstates if I hit a headwind even without a trailer.
I had a 300 CID Ford F-150 once that was rated at only 2,000 lbs towing with the stick shift, and a later model with the V-8 that dropped the tow rating to 1,900 lbs because the V-8 was heavier than the V-6 I guess. Fortunately I only had a 1750 GVWR pop-up at the time.
The benefit of little fiberglass campers is that you don't need to invest in a huge tow vehicle to safely pull them, just make sure that your tow vehicle is rated to tow the load and you drive sensibly.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:53 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I agree that you can safely tow a FG trailer with a small vehicle such as a Ford Ranger or Chevy Colorado or Dodge Durango if you load the trailer properly , employ the proper hitch , use sway control , exercise caution ,and drive defensively
I also realize a bigger tow vehicle does not insure a safe trouble free tow
I just don’t want to drive , or tow with a small compact vehicle .
Towing with a small vehicle is an unpleasant, nerve racking , unenjoyable , white knuckle experience for me
Towing at or over my vehicles limit holds no appeal
The obsessive concern about fuel mileage regardless of safety baffles me

Two types of people towing that scare me . ( not all inclusive)

I The 20 to 30 year old male with a jacked up truck towing a trailer in traffic and jockeying for position
2) The guy towing a heavy trailer with his sub compact car going down the highway at 30 MPH , swaying in the wind and his headlights shining up to the heavens
No one on this thread has advocated towing with a subcompact car or even a small compact vehicle, My TC weighs 3700 pounds and has a payload of 1575#.
The only subcompact shown was the Pinto on the cover of an early Scamp brochure. It had 88HP and weighed 2475#
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Old 01-24-2020, 12:09 PM   #31
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Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
Posts: 4,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
No one on this thread has advocated towing with a subcompact car or even a small compact vehicle, My TC weighs 3700 pounds and has a payload of 1575#.
The only subcompact shown was the Pinto on the cover of an early Scamp brochure. It had 88HP and weighed 2475#
I guess it’s all in how you define a sub compact or compact SUV
I consider my wife’s Equinox as a compact car or small SUV others would not
People are free to decide what they feel is a suitable , safe , adequate tow vehicle .
Just because from my experience certain size vehicles would not be my choice doesn’t make your choice wrong or mine right
I believe you would not tow with a vehicle that you honestly felt was unsafe for you or would endanger others . I also believe that you are willing to take the responsibility for your action as would I
It seems at times that fuel mileage is the overriding
criteria for choosing a tow vehicle and trumps all other concerns .
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:47 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I guess it’s all in how you define a sub compact or compact SUV
I consider my wife’s Equinox as a compact car or small SUV others would not
People are free to decide what they feel is a suitable , safe , adequate tow vehicle .
Just because from my experience certain size vehicles would not be my choice doesn’t make your choice wrong or mine right
I believe you would not tow with a vehicle that you honestly felt was unsafe for you or would endanger others . I also believe that you are willing to take the responsibility for your action as would I
It seems at times that fuel mileage is the overriding
criteria for choosing a tow vehicle and trumps all other concerns .
Thank you and I get your point, but...

The EPA actually defines vehicle size , mostly by interior volume, curb weight,etc.
To your point though, they can be a bit arcane.


When towing below +- 12MPG... a motel starts looking pretty good.
Mileage becomes more important with distance.

A trip to the local fishing lake, not so much.


I see a lot of 40ft fifth wheels on the highway and figure they must be "destination camping" going to one place and staying for a long time.
Little light weight trailers with proportional sized tow vehicles are more suited for touring and exploring our country's backroads and for shorter stays.


My2001 Ranger with a Scamp13 in tow weighs less than a three row 4WD Explorer with the same chassis. brakes and running gear.


In your world, lamp cord is often 18,16 or at most 14, depending on the rated load of a desk lamp.
While it might be wise to wire for the maximum load, most electricians would not choose 00 or 000 wire for a desk lamp... Right?


I used 1-1/2" or 2" Barge rope when tying off a 2800T river barge, but I never even considered trying to use it for shoelaces, Of course sewing thread would be a bit light for either application.


When I see a 10MM bolt to remove I prefer a 10mm wrench , even if a 2ft adjustable wrench might actually do the job with a little extra work.


So you are right, it can all be a bit subjective, can't it?
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Old 01-24-2020, 03:40 PM   #33
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Name: Neville
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Subjective?

Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Thank you and I get your point, but...



When towing below +- 12MPG... a motel starts looking pretty good.
Mileage becomes more important with distance.

A trip to the local fishing lake, not so much.


Agreed! Except at motels you have the bed bug option. I get a lot better than 12 with a whole lot of HP. Plus, the bonus of a real truck tranny.


My2001 Ranger with a Scamp13 in tow weighs less than a three row 4WD Explorer with the same chassis. brakes and running gear.


I would definitely tow with the Ranger rather than the Explorer


I used 1-1/2" or 2" Barge rope when tying off a 28T river barge, but I never even considered trying to use it for shoelaces, Of course sewing thread would be a bit light for either application.


I'd go 2" Nylon to tie off the barge. The rest is a bit weird.


When I see a 10MM bolt to remove I prefer a 10mm wrench , even if a 2ft adjustable wrench might actually do the job with a little extra work.


Actually, I would rather use the 2' adjustable if there was room and it was handy, otherwise I would go and get a 17mm wrench. A 10mm wrench does not fit a 10mm bolt.


A 4.0 V6 Ranger is a great tow vehicle either in front or behind an RV
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:39 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Villen View Post
A 4.0 V6 Ranger is a great tow vehicle either in front or behind an RV
You seem too Darn clever to miss the point so profoundly, but that's ok,
Steve got it!
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Old 01-26-2020, 05:13 PM   #35
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To lend some levity to this heated conversation, here is an ad from 1974 for a 5th wheel trailer built to be towed by a VW beetle. It's even jackknife proof.

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Old 01-26-2020, 05:25 PM   #36
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To lend some levity to this heated conversation, here is an ad from 1974 for a 5th wheel trailer built to be towed by a VW beetle. It's even jackknife proof.
Too bad they don't still offer that camper. I can see it working very well attached to the overhead roll-bar of a Jeep Wrangler.
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Old 01-26-2020, 06:16 PM   #37
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Name: Cliff
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
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Originally Posted by Villen View Post
I am not quite sure I trust any manufacturers tow rating. I think most are wishful thinking. They appear to forget about wind resistance. What rpm gives you most power and torque. What your grocery cart is going to do with that 2500# appendage in an emergency.

Having a large truck does not necessarily mean you are an expert at towing, but it does mean you tow 3500# a lot better than the guy with the Escape.

Once I simply moved a 2100# horse trailer (empty) from the dealer to my farm with my Toyota 4 banger. It pulled it great, until I hit the open road. Hit a brick wall at 45. Wind resistance from my own speed shut it down. This trailer was pulled fully loaded by my Chevy 1500, with Hay on top and water barrel in front at 70 mph regularly. Total weight around 4800#. You guys are rating these little wimpy rigs as being able to pull a trailer and all your gear. That Escape 2.0 turbo is rated at 245 hp, the 2.5 is 168hp (About the same as my little Toyota). Joke is on you! That is at 6000 rpm in the Escape. 4400 in the Toyota. Trust me, your little shopping cart will not have a long life pulling your trailer at 6000rpm. It does not have low enough gearing to be effective.
You don’t need an elephant gun to shoot squirrels.......
😂 The only time you need to maintain 6000 rpms would be at a drag strip to attain peak hp. Torque does the work and on the Escape that’s 270 lbs feet at 3000 rpm. And i stopped taking you serious when you think 1978 straight 6 can even be in the same comparison.
🤔 Any words of wisdom on towing my 5.0TA with my F150, 2.7 Ecoboost ?
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Old 01-26-2020, 06:31 PM   #38
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Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
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[QUOTE=Cliff Hotchkiss �� Any words of wisdom on towing my 5.0TA with my F150, 2.7 Ecoboost ?[/QUOTE]

Check your tires , use the right grade of synthetic motor oil and burn premium gasoline.
If everything else fails move up to a new FORD F350 Diesel Dually with max tow package

Glad I could help
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Old 01-26-2020, 06:49 PM   #39
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Name: Cliff
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Connecticut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Check your tires , use the right grade of synthetic motor oil and burn premium gasoline.
If everything else fails move up to a new FORD F350 Diesel Dually with max tow package

Glad I could help
👍👍 Much appreciated....
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Old 01-27-2020, 01:40 AM   #40
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Trailer: Trails West Campster
Ida Home
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Originally Posted by Cliff Hotchkiss View Post
You don’t need an elephant gun to shoot squirrels.......
😂 The only time you need to maintain 6000 rpms would be at a drag strip to attain peak hp. Torque does the work and on the Escape that’s 270 lbs feet at 3000 rpm. And i stopped taking you serious when you think 1978 straight 6 can even be in the same comparison.
🤔 Any words of wisdom on towing my 5.0TA with my F150, 2.7 Ecoboost ?

Maybe you should read up on those old straight 6's. Preferably when they were produced/used in other countries where they use real gasoline, not the horse pee used in the uSA. Combined with stronger transmissions and more tow vehicle weight, I would choose them over the crap produced today.

You call an F150 with a 2,7 a truck?
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