Tugs - Fiberglass RV


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Old 01-04-2020, 01:53 PM   #1
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Will anyone else be towing with a 2020 Ford Escape this coming summer?
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Old 01-04-2020, 01:56 PM   #2
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My new tug 2020 Ford Escape SEL 2.0 AWDClick image for larger version

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Old 01-04-2020, 03:38 PM   #3
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Great choice ! It will do well with your Boler.
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Old 01-04-2020, 11:26 PM   #4
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Aren't the new Escapes basically a FWD/AWD hatchback based on the Focus ? I'd be scared to tow much more than a rowboat with something like that.

Ford 2020 towing guide says with the AWD 2.0L Ecoboost, and factory tow, you get a class II hitch, 4 pin (lights only, no brakes), max 30 sq ft wind cross section (and the Escape itself is 20 sq ft), and a trailer max of 3500 lbs, with a GCWR of 7370 lbs.

The curb weight of the AWD Ecoboost is given as 3551 lbs, so if you are towing a 3500 lb trailer, 3500+3551 = 7051, so you get about 320 lbs payload in the car including the driver and passenger before you exceed the GCWR. that given curb weight is typically the minimum model with that engine and drive train, so any accessories on your car add to it.


car speccs from here, https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...Tech-Specs.pdf
towing data from here,
https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources...uide_Sep26.pdf
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Old 01-05-2020, 05:53 AM   #5
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Quite right. Trailer weight is only part of the picture.

This chassis and drivetrain (Escape 2.0L Ecoboost) have been around a while with the same 3500# tow rating. Based on dozens of owner reports along with the manufacturer’s specs, my take is a 13’ molded trailer makes a very nice match with adequate, even lively, performance. A 16’ Scamp, around 2500# and riding on a taller suspension, is doable but marginal in mountains. A 3000-3500# 17’ molded trailer... not recommended. Payload and excess frontal area tip the balance before trailer weight hits the limit.

That happens with many vehicles as you approach their maximum trailer weight ratings, even heavy duty trucks towing large fifth wheels. In this case, payload and frontal area constraints are straight out of the J2807 tow testing standards, which specify 30 sf frontal area and two 150# occupants in the 3500# class. Clearly Ford is following the standard.

The poster’s 13’ Boler is well within the real-world capabilities of this vehicle. Nice looking, too, though I wonder what the rounded back does to cargo capacity. I still prefer the boxier shape of the 2nd generation Escapes.
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Old 01-05-2020, 08:56 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
Aren't the new Escapes basically a FWD/AWD hatchback based on the Focus ? I'd be scared to tow much more than a rowboat with something like that.

Ford 2020 towing guide says with the AWD 2.0L Ecoboost, and factory tow, you get a class II hitch, 4 pin (lights only, no brakes), max 30 sq ft wind cross section (and the Escape itself is 20 sq ft), and a trailer max of 3500 lbs, with a GCWR of 7370 lbs.

The curb weight of the AWD Ecoboost is given as 3551 lbs, so if you are towing a 3500 lb trailer, 3500+3551 = 7051, so you get about 320 lbs payload in the car including the driver and passenger before you exceed the GCWR. that given curb weight is typically the minimum model with that engine and drive train, so any accessories on your car add to it.


car speccs from here, https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...Tech-Specs.pdf
towing data from here,
https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources...uide_Sep26.pdf
We recently purchased a 2019 Chevy Equinox with the 2.0 liter engine , 9 speed transmission , AWD , and tow equipment package ( Rated to tow 3500 lbs and 350 lb tongue weight ) I think towing even a row boat is pushing itís limits .
The power , braking , steering , handling is fine for a small SUV but not with a couple thousand pounds hanging on the back end
These small SUVís are commuter cars , grocery getters at best
I donít understand why people continue to want to tow a 2000 lb trailer with the absolute minimum tow vehicle available under the guise of fuel economy .
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:35 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
Aren't the new Escapes basically a FWD/AWD hatchback based on the Focus ? I'd be scared to tow much more than a rowboat with something like that.

Ford 2020 towing guide says with the AWD 2.0L Ecoboost, and factory tow, you get a class II hitch, 4 pin (lights only, no brakes), max 30 sq ft wind cross section (and the Escape itself is 20 sq ft), and a trailer max of 3500 lbs, with a GCWR of 7370 lbs.

The curb weight of the AWD Ecoboost is given as 3551 lbs, so if you are towing a 3500 lb trailer, 3500+3551 = 7051, so you get about 320 lbs payload in the car including the driver and passenger before you exceed the GCWR. that given curb weight is typically the minimum model with that engine and drive train, so any accessories on your car add to it.






car speccs from here, https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...Tech-Specs.pdf
towing data from here,
https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources...uide_Sep26.pdf
Your fears not withstanding.... The Escape is rated to tow about 2-1/2 times as much as the OP intends to tow, and has proven to do well in doing so for 6 years on this platform.
I can't remember seeing a stock Boler13 with brakes.


As lame as it is, J2807 is often quoted as the definitive authority on tow ratings. Is it worth using as a reference or not?
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Old 01-05-2020, 01:15 PM   #8
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Your fears not withstanding.... The Escape is rated to tow about 2-1/2 times as much as the OP intends to tow, and has proven to do well in doing so for 6 years on this platform.
I can't remember seeing a stock Boler13 with brakes.


As lame as it is, J2807 is often quoted as the definitive authority on tow ratings. Is it worth using as a reference or not?
Floyd ; could you reference a source for your statement, that it is a proven tow vehicle for over 6 years on this platform ?
Iíve read similar statements about other vehicles and most were based on personal vehicle preference or brand loyalty
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:03 PM   #9
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if this boler 13 is a 1000-1500 lb trailer loaded, then sure, you could pull it with a FWD minibox like this, although I'd wonder about the 30 sq ft frontal area... thats just 6 x 5 feet.... and < 1500 lbs means no brakes required even in California. You do still want to subtract your tongue weight from your vehicle payload when considering loading the car

btw, 2020 Escape is on a new platform, what Ford calls C-2, new for 2020.
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:22 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Floyd ; could you reference a source for your statement, that it is a proven tow vehicle for over 6 years on this platform ?
I’ve read similar statements about other vehicles and most were based on personal vehicle preference or brand loyalty
As you know, I attend a lot of fiberglass rallies all over the country and the Escape is a very popular vehicle for towing 13 and 16ft fiberglass trailers and I have talked to several satisfied owners.
Also I Have owned my TC for three years now which is also on a Focus based chassis and has proven excellent for towing my Scamp13D.
Of course you may check with the car's J2807 tow rating, or Ford's tow rating.

Also, I have owned and towed with two first gen Escapes with great satisfaction although they both had less powerful 4CYL engines and lacked the power, brakes, or electronic tow controls of the newer Escapes.


Note...I am NOT endorsing the Escape for towing a 3500 pound trailer... I'll leave that for the SAE and Ford, but it is clearly capable of towing any of the variety of smaller Fiberglass Trailers, especially 13 footers.
Personally, I prefer trailer brakes and have them on my own trailer.


BTW...The tow package and the addition of trailer brakes in most states, is required to meet the 3500# rating.


Your Equinox is also popular and capable in the same service which I described above.


Finally, it is just plain reasonable to expect that just about any modern TV would do well at 40% of its tested tow rating... that is if it is fit to drive without a trailer.
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Old 01-05-2020, 05:58 PM   #11
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As you know, I attend a lot of fiberglass rallies all over the country and the Escape is a very popular vehicle for towing 13 and 16ft fiberglass trailers and I have talked to several satisfied owners.
Also I Have owned my TC for three years now which is also on a Focus based chassis and has proven excellent for towing my Scamp13D.
Of course you may check with the car's J2807 tow rating, or Ford's tow rating.

Also, I have owned and towed with two first gen Escapes with great satisfaction although they both had less powerful 4CYL engines and lacked the power, brakes, or electronic tow controls of the newer Escapes.


Note...I am NOT endorsing the Escape for towing a 3500 pound trailer... I'll leave that for the SAE and Ford, but it is clearly capable of towing any of the variety of smaller Fiberglass Trailers, especially 13 footers.
Personally, I prefer trailer brakes and have them on my own trailer.


BTW...The tow package and the addition of trailer brakes in most states, is required to meet the 3500# rating.


Your Equinox is also popular and capable in the same service which I described above.


Finally, it is just plain reasonable to expect that just about any modern TV would do well at 40% of its tested tow rating... that is if it is fit to drive without a trailer.
Back in 1978 when I was much younger , I towed my 14 ft Monkey Wards aluminum fishing boat around with our 6 cyl Ford Fairmont Station wagon
Car lasted 14 years , I still have the boat .
I did what I needed to do with what I had , don’t know if that reasoning would work today . In my old age I have become cautious mainly because I heal much more slowly .
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:47 PM   #12
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We recently purchased a 2019 Chevy Equinox with the 2.0 liter engine , 9 speed transmission , AWD , and tow equipment package ( Rated to tow 3500 lbs and 350 lb tongue weight ) I think towing even a row boat is pushing itís limits .
The power , braking , steering , handling is fine for a small SUV but not with a couple thousand pounds hanging on the back end
These small SUVís are commuter cars , grocery getters at best
I donít understand why people continue to want to tow a 2000 lb trailer with the absolute minimum tow vehicle available under the guise of fuel economy .
Steve, you know I think just like you on towing, why so many think that towing with a tow vehicle that is rated by the manufacture to handle the trailer you want to tow is everything needed for safe towing, boy do they have a lot to learn and I hope it's not under the unthinkable conditions.

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Old 01-06-2020, 09:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by trainman View Post
Steve, you know I think just like you on towing, why so many think that towing with a tow vehicle that is rated by the manufacture to handle the trailer you want to tow is everything needed for safe towing, boy do they have a lot to learn and I hope it's not under the unthinkable conditions.

trainman
So ...Honestly, tell us what you have actually seen upside down in the ditch.
My experience has been fullsized 4WD trucks towing moderate sized trailers, usually toy haulers, obviously improperly loaded and fishtailing down the road at 80+ MPH...


So many think that just having a large enough truck is everything needed for safe towing, Boy do they have a lot to learn and probably the hard way.


Don't forget that the OP on this thread is towing at about 40% of the tow rating.
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:30 PM   #14
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Towing with a Ford Escape? WHY?

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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
So ...Honestly, tell us what you have actually seen upside down in the ditch.
My experience has been fullsized 4WD trucks towing moderate sized trailers, usually toy haulers, obviously improperly loaded and fishtailing down the road at 80+ MPH...


So many think that just having a large enough truck is everything needed for safe towing, Boy do they have a lot to learn and probably the hard way.


Don't forget that the OP on this thread is towing at about 40% of the tow rating.



I am not quite sure I trust any manufacturers tow rating. I think most are wishful thinking. They appear to forget about wind resistance. What rpm gives you most power and torque. What your grocery cart is going to do with that 2500# appendage in an emergency.

Having a large truck does not necessarily mean you are an expert at towing, but it does mean you tow 3500# a lot better than the guy with the Escape.

Once I simply moved a 2100# horse trailer (empty) from the dealer to my farm with my Toyota 4 banger. It pulled it great, until I hit the open road. Hit a brick wall at 45. Wind resistance from my own speed shut it down. This trailer was pulled fully loaded by my Chevy 1500, with Hay on top and water barrel in front at 70 mph regularly. Total weight around 4800#. You guys are rating these little wimpy rigs as being able to pull a trailer and all your gear. That Escape 2.0 turbo is rated at 245 hp, the 2.5 is 168hp (About the same as my little Toyota). Joke is on you! That is at 6000 rpm in the Escape. 4400 in the Toyota. Trust me, your little shopping cart will not have a long life pulling your trailer at 6000rpm. It does not have low enough gearing to be effective.
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:12 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Back in 1978 when I was much younger , I towed my 14 ft Monkey Wards aluminum fishing boat around with our 6 cyl Ford Fairmont Station wagon
Car lasted 14 years , I still have the boat .
I did what I needed to do with what I had , donít know if that reasoning would work today . In my old age I have become cautious mainly because I heal much more slowly .
That Fairmont had live axle RWD, which is an optimal towing suspension configuration. heck, I towed a 16 foot Hobie Cat all over the west with a 4 cylinder Volvo 240, also RWD live axle.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:22 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Back in 1978 when I was much younger , I towed my 14 ft Monkey Wards aluminum fishing boat around with our 6 cyl Ford Fairmont Station wagon
Car lasted 14 years , I still have the boat .
I did what I needed to do with what I had , donít know if that reasoning would work today . In my old age I have become cautious mainly because I heal much more slowly .

I would rather tow a Boler, or any trailer, with that Fairmont than use a Ford Escape. That straight 6 had torque. I am not a V6 fan even though I have a Nissan Frontier.

My biggest gripe with the Escape is the crappy transmission. Second is when you are on a windy 2 lane uphill behind one towing a trailer.
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:39 PM   #17
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"That Fairmont had live axle RWD, which is an optimal towing suspension configuration. heck, I towed a 16 foot Hobie Cat all over the west with a 4 cylinder Volvo 240, also RWD live axle."


Can't beat 'em John.
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Old 01-23-2020, 05:31 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Villen View Post
I am not quite sure I trust any manufacturers tow rating. I think most are wishful thinking. They appear to forget about wind resistance. What rpm gives you most power and torque. What your grocery cart is going to do with that 2500# appendage in an emergency.

Having a large truck does not necessarily mean you are an expert at towing, but it does mean you tow 3500# a lot better than the guy with the Escape.

Once I simply moved a 2100# horse trailer (empty) from the dealer to my farm with my Toyota 4 banger. It pulled it great, until I hit the open road. Hit a brick wall at 45. Wind resistance from my own speed shut it down. This trailer was pulled fully loaded by my Chevy 1500, with Hay on top and water barrel in front at 70 mph regularly. Total weight around 4800#. You guys are rating these little wimpy rigs as being able to pull a trailer and all your gear. That Escape 2.0 turbo is rated at 245 hp, the 2.5 is 168hp (About the same as my little Toyota). Joke is on you! That is at 6000 rpm in the Escape. 4400 in the Toyota. Trust me, your little shopping cart will not have a long life pulling your trailer at 6000rpm. It does not have low enough gearing to be effective.
You make a good point about pulling a parachute, even a thousand HP drag car has a problem with that.
In this particular situation , you have missed the point.
We are talking about a vehicle with a tow rating of 3500# towing less than half that in a trailer with the best aero of any travel trailer in its class.
Fact is the Escape will tow a Scamp13 better than your Chevy 1500.
I have towed Scamp13D for about 80000 miles safely in comfort and with remarkable stability with normally aspirated 4CYLs.

My Transit Connect 2.5L 4CYL has regularly surpassed 25MPG at 60MPH towing through Tennessee and Georgia. At 2200 rpm.


Our 2008 Escape 2.3L normal aspirated 4Cyl is still in service having towed my Scamp13 about 5-6 thousand miles per year.for ten years it is now my son's daily driver.
That vehicle, after 12 years and 150000 miles, is still perfectly capable of towing my Scamp13 for another 4000 mile trip to Florida without using a drop of oil or even opening the hood.

The Joke is squarely on you if you don't believe in using the right tool for the job at hand.


You don't trust the manufacturer's or SAE's tow ratings even when towing at 40%. Who should we trust? Am I to believe that my experience and judgement, informed by my vehicle's ratings and J2807, and then reduced by more than half would still be carelessness compared to towing a 4800# horse trailer at 70MPH?

Tow ratings are not minimums, you should choose your tow vehicle based on the actual job you plan to do.

It is prudent, however, to be sure that the Tow Rating is one paraneter.
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Old 01-23-2020, 06:01 PM   #19
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In this particular situation , you have missed the point.
We are talking about a vehicle with a tow rating of 3500# towing less than half that in a trailer with the best aero of any travel trailer in its class.
Fact is the Escape will tow a Scamp13 better than your Chevy 1500.
I have towed Scamp13D for about 80000 miles safely in comfort and with remarkable stability with normally aspirated 4CYLs.

My Transit Connect 2.5L 4CYL has regularly surpassed 25MPG at 60MPH towing through Tennessee and Georgia. At 2200 rpm.


Our 2008 Escape 2.3L normal aspirated 4Cyl is still in service having towed my Scamp13 about 5-6 thousand miles per year.for ten years it is now my son's daily driver.
That vehicle, after 12 years and 150000 miles, is still perfectly capable of towing my Scamp13 for another 4000 mile trip to Florida without using a drop of oil or even opening the hood.

The Joke is squarely on you if you don't believe in using the right tool for the job at hand.


You don't trust the manufacturer's or SAE's tow ratings even when towing at 40%. Who should we trust? Am I to believe that my experience and judgement, informed by my vehicle's ratings and J2807, and then reduced by more than half would still be carelessness compared to towing a 4800# horse trailer at 70MPH?

Tow ratings are not minimums, you must choose your tow vehicle based on the actual job you plan to do.

It is prudent, however, to be sure that the Tow Rating is one paraneter.
I respect you opinion / view on towing a FG trailer with a small SUV based on your experience
My opinion based on my experience is different from yours concerning this subject .
When someone on this forum asks for opinions towing with vehicle X all I can do is give my honest opinion
I have stated in the past in my opinion I would not tow nor would I feel safe towing any FG trailer with a small SUV whether it is a Ford , Chevy or Chrysler
We own a 2019 Chevy Equinox rated to tow 3500 lbs .
I can guarantee you that I will not attempt to tow with this vehicle based on my best judgement and my concern for my safety and the safety of others .
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Old 01-23-2020, 06:31 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I respect you opinion / view on towing a FG trailer with a small SUV based on your experience
My opinion based on my experience is different from yours concerning this subject .
When someone on this forum asks for opinions towing with vehicle X all I can do is give my honest opinion
I have stated in the past in my opinion I would not tow nor would I feel safe towing any FG trailer with a small SUV whether it is a Ford , Chevy or Chrysler
We own a 2019 Chevy Equinox rated to tow 3500 lbs .
I can guarantee you that I will not attempt to tow with this vehicle based on my best judgement and my concern for my safety and the safety of others .
Did you ever tow a Scamp13?
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