Using anti seize compound on wheel lugs

[cpaharley2008]

Several members mentioned the use of thread locker on my other post and upon research I found the product called anti seize compound. I ordered both but upon research have found there are two sides on the use of this product on your wheel lugs. some say the use allows too much torque to be applied while others say it makes the removal of wheel a lot easier. What do feel is best?

[rabbit]

The consensus with exceptions seems to be that the presence of lube or anti seize compound in the threads produces inaccurate torque values from impact guns and torque wrenches resulting in over tightening. With hub centric alloy wheels, anti seize between the hub and the contact bore of the wheel can be useful. One time removing all the bolts or nuts on a flat and then having to sit in freezing slush trying to kick a wheel free will make you consider a better way. This can happen in one wet winter even on vehicles for which tire rotation is routine.

jack

[rabbit]

Have you seen the commercial in which "thoughtful old Dad" is so proud of his "little girl" who can remove lug bolts with the silly a$$ bent tire iron supplied with most vehicles. The only stud I ever broke was with one of those knuckle/shin busters. Get a T iron. Just a thought.

[Raz]

Last year I decided to buy a quality torque wrench. When I was researching I ran across this site. I found it very informative.

Torque wrench FAQ, torque wrench recommendations, and how to use a torque wrench | VW TDI forum, Audi, Porsche, and Chevy Cruze diesel forum

I don't use thread lock as much as I used to. I am more likely to use new hardware and torque to spec. I would never use anything on lug nuts unless the manufacturer called for it. Raz

[Darwin Maring]

I only use anti on spark plugs. I would not use it on a lug bolt.

[David Clinkenbeard]

There is always a lot of opinions or false experts lurking on forums. When it comes to safety, don't accept advice from unknown sources. Go to someone you know and trust who has experience first hand. And follow recommended guidelines from manufacturers. Stop and think about a wheel coming off while traveling down the highway in tow. Can you afford the risk? I believe Jack Rabbit has it right about stud failure from faulty torque from everything I know and read about this.

[Jim W]

Here is a link to an engineering forum discussing anti seize on lug nuts,

Use of Anti Seize on Vehicle Lug Nuts

I have been using anti seize on lugs for a few decades and have never had a lug come loose. Having said that I am the one changing the wheels on my trailers and cars. Use AS sparingly and hand torque do not use an impact wrench to install lug nuts with AS and check torque in 50 miles of driving. Checking the torque in 50 miles is normal with aluminum wheels, being a fiberglass car junkie I've worked with quite a few aluminum wheels.

[SilverGhost]

When I performed DOT inspections for trailer shop we saw this, a lot. I was informed that anti-seize will cause a fail at an inspection (such as a weight station). We asked about alternatives and got a reluctant recommendation to used WD40, as it will help with the rust, but not affect the proper torque much.

I have also seen a few lug nuts that were harder to get off because the aluminum based anti-seize dried out and effectively glued/welded the threads. Or better description would be gauled threads.

On a separate point, I don't use anti-seize on spark plugs because engineers, for the manufacture I work for, have found it contributes to misfires. I don't know if this is to include the aluminum based and copper based anti-seize, or just the aluminum based stuff.

Jason

[Darwin Maring]

Silver: You have to be really careful when you apply it it the spark plug threads and not get it on or near the electrode because it is conductive and can cause misfires. It was mandatory in the Army to put it on aircraft spark plugs because without it, the plug would weld itself to the aluminum cylinder and you would strip the cylinder threads upon removal. I still use the stuff today on all spark plugs. I think the anti compound is graphite based.

[KLAUS TIEKENHEINRICH]

Having been the trades for some time, here is my take on the topic.to get a true torque setting is to put the 2 fasteners together dry. Some engineers have said to me that oil on the first few threads is ok. When antisieze is applied it changes the friction between the two mateing surfaces nd installedand the torque value. But when one is on the road and you have to change a flat and the wheel needs to be removed ,and the nut is siezed on or worse when the nut galls on the threads and destroys both, then the above mentioned sounds like jumbo when your on the side of the road holding your head in dispair. What i do is put on antisieze or a light grease on sparingly, and know 100%the wheels and be removed and installed with no probem. Presonally i have never heard of anyone putting on locktite to retain wheel nuts

[Bob Miller]

So, what does a person do when they don't know someone that they can trust and has first hand experience?

But then again, I don't know you, so should I reject that advice also?

Personally, I go with a consensus of imformation and cross verify.

Originally Posted by David Clinkenbeard

There is always a lot of opinions or false experts lurking on forums. When it comes to safety, don't accept advice from unknown sources. Go to someone you know and trust who has experience first hand. And follow recommended guidelines from manufacturers. Stop and think about a wheel coming off while traveling down the highway in tow. Can you afford the risk? I believe Jack Rabbit has it right about stud failure from faulty torque from everything I know and read about this.

[Glenn Baglo]

Just do what everybody else does. Find a response that agrees with what you already think or want to believe and go with that.

[David Clinkenbeard]

Don't take it personally Bob. I mean no malice. Ever seen what a tire and wheel can do when it comes off at high speed? Personal death, injury, and damage comes to mind. Jim has this same topic over on the Escape forum too. The answers are all over the map. He is setting back watching the comments and hasn't said a thing. Over there I told him to do some research and come to his own conclusion. Dexter has the recommendations on pages 66-69 of their book. Most reputable tire stores could advise him.

[Perry J]

Jim and Bob,
Do a survey and find out how many have lost a wheel and if they used anti seize compound.
I have towed more than most and have never used a torque wrench or anti seize compound.

John

[Francesca Knowles]

If Tire Rack advising aginst the use of anti-seize on wheel studs isn't enough,
here's a link to a truckers' site that explains in some detail why it's a bad idea.

As for those who've "done it for years without mishap", all I can say is that I hope your luck continues to hold.

[Jared J]

After shearing off 17/20 rusted studs on a trailer, I use it. I torque them before every trip, never had one tighten after the initial time. I don't believe for a second it could let them loosen up, unless you got it on the seat.

[Jim W]

The second article had the best reason to never use anti seize, if you use anti seize and ever have any kind of wheel failure where someone were to get hurt a liability lawyer will be able to sue you for more money because you have obviously recklessly endangered the public. But his statement of anti seize reducing the clamping force per foot pound of torque is exactly backwards. Using a dry torque value for a lubricated fastener increases the load or clamping force on the fastener. Lubricated fastener torque values are always lower to achieve the same fastener loading.

[David Clinkenbeard]

Here is a related article;Loose Wheel Nuts - Causes and Effects, News Articles

Looks like 40 to 60 lost wheels a week in the US.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by David Clinkenbeard

Here is a related article;Loose Wheel Nuts - Causes and Effects, News Articles

Looks like 40 to 60 lost wheels a week in the US.

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Somehow a claim about the frequency of loose lugs, made by a company that sells something to reduce loose lug nuts, without any reference as to it's source for that information, holds little water for me.

But, with over 250 Million vehicles (per wikkipedia) on the road, each with as many as 4 wheels each, if as many as 2500 came off in a year, thats still only a 1 in 10,000,000 chance one will be on a given vehicle.

[Art VanDelay]

Read your manual that came with the vehicle and do what it states and nothing more.
If your vehicle came with a Toque Wrench - Use it and if it didn't then just tighten how the book states.