Vehicle for mountains

[sokhapkin]

Originally Posted by honda03842

The difference between towing and not towing with the Odyssey is about 16 miles per gallon. We get 19 mpg towing and 35 mpg not towing.

Odyssey's variable cylinders shut off engine is a different story. Consider you use 2 different engines, 3 cylinders while not towing and 6 cyls when towing. I wonder why variable cylinders shut off is not a common design standard for automakers nowdays.

Most of ford v8 engines can temporary run without coolant for 15 years already. Computer turns half of cylinders off to ventilate and cool the engine. I can't understand why ford engineers did not implement cylinder shut off to reduce fuel consumption.

[honda03842]

Sergey,

Though we knew the Odyssey had cylinder management, we never expected to get such great highway mileage. Generally in 'flat Florida' we're mostly running on 3 and 4 cylinders. What amazes me is that the cylinder switching process is virtually silent and when you step on it to pass, the engine leaps.

[cpaharley2008]

Just wait until you have a tune up with those active fuel management motors, my Ram v-8 has 16 spark plugs, when you cut off the cylinder the other plug is activated. Tune ups will set you back $300-400.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by sokhapkin

Odyssey's variable cylinders shut off engine is a different story. Consider you use 2 different engines, 3 cylinders while not towing and 6 cyls when towing. I wonder why variable cylinders shut off is not a common design standard for automakers nowdays.

It is an impressive system and does add more technology to the engine.

On the Toyota Sienna'a they opted for a transmission with more gears which gives their vans similar mileage. On the Ford F150 they went with an aluminum body which shed 700+ Lbs off the vehicle which saves gas. Every one is doing their own thing to use less fuel.

What we need is for someone to implement all of the above mods and then we would have something.

[cpaharley2008]

If it gets too light then it may fly??!!!

[MC1]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

If it gets too light then it may fly??!!!

For sure!

[Bob Miller]

Me thinks that, in bowing to the newest automotive deity, aka MPG, that the increases in technology will eventually bite us in the butt as these cars age. We are already seeing huge drops in MPG's when even the slightest towing load is added and next will be further reductions in manufacturers towing capacity specifications to reduce stress on engines that are running right at the edge already.


As more and more cars use parts that are mfg specific, repairing older cars with AutoZone parts, as we have for years, will become less and less possible. Auto parts stores themselves may go in the same direction as Radio Shack, that once bastion of High Tech computers (TRS-80 anyone?) and Sears is about to go.


A few yeasr back I had to put out almost $1000 in parts and labor for a cat converter and a charcoal canister for a 10 y.o. Camry, that might have been worth twice that, just to squeeze another year or two of use out of it.


My take, hang onto the old ones until we see how the new ones shake out or apart..... And never forget the Cadillac 4-6-8 engine and the GM passenger diesels of the 80's when you buy into that new money/gas saving ride.


rant done.....

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Just wait until you have a tune up with those active fuel management motors, my Ram v-8 has 16 spark plugs, when you cut off the cylinder the other plug is activated. Tune ups will set you back $300-400.

Jim,

The Odyssey only has 6 plugs, replacement at 100,000 miles and the typical price is $100-150. On the Honda CRV I replaced them at 150,000 miles when the engine reported a miss-fire.

There's no switching of plug set in the Odyssey.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Just wait until you have a tune up with those active fuel management motors, my Ram v-8 has 16 spark plugs, when you cut off the cylinder the other plug is activated. Tune ups will set you back $300-400.

Jim ; One good thing is that your 2014 Ram as well as mine now have 100,000 mile spark plugs . The 2010/2011 Ram trucks had different spark plugs and required the plugs to be changed every 32,000 miles. A rather expensive PITA..
I had the plugs changed in my 2011 Ram for under $200 .One of the reasons I traded off my 2011 Ram was I didn't' want to fork over another $200 for new spark plugs .

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Me thinks that, in bowing to the newest automotive deity, aka MPG, that the increases in technology will eventually bite us in the butt as these cars age. We are already seeing huge drops in MPG's when even the slightest towing load is added and next will be further reductions in manufacturers towing capacity specifications to reduce stress on engines that are running right at the edge already.

As more and more cars use parts that are mfg specific, repairing older cars with AutoZone parts, as we have for years, will become less and less possible. Auto parts stores themselves may go in the same direction as Radio Shack, that once bastion of High Tech computers (TRS-80 anyone?) and Sears is about to go.

A few years back I had to put out almost $1000 in parts and labor for a cat converter and a charcoal canister for a 10 y.o. Camry, that might have been worth twice that, just to squeeze another year or two of use out of it.

My take, hang onto the old ones until we see how the new ones shake out or apart..... And never forget the Cadillac 4-6-8 engine and the GM passenger diesels of the 80's when you buy into that new money/gas saving ride.

Bob,

I don't get too concerned about parts after year 10. I really expect most everything to work thru year 10. When we traded in our 10 year old CRV with a 250,000 miles to my knowledge nothing needed to be replaced and little had over the years. As to parts availability, there are plenty of Internet parts sources.

You know we only have one vehicle and as a result we trade it in after 10 years, mostly for Ginny's peace of mind as we explore the back roads of North America.

As to drops in towing mileage, so far I would say the Odyssey will be a better tow vehicle than the CRV (we loved that CRV). Outside of small diesel tow vehicles, I haven't seen many tow vehicles that exceeds the Odyssey's 19 mpg, not much less than the CRV. Definitely the Odyssey is more comfortable, larger and much more powerful. What surprises me is the non-towing mileage improvement.

I admit the reliability of cylinder management is a concern however our view it's a Honda and historically they've made good engines. Our Honda engine experience over decades is no expensive repairs, no clutch replacements (this is our first automatic) and no drive line failures. We never even replaced a muffler, maybe because we do little short distance driving.

I will pay attention to the cylinder management system. Should it require any repair I'll report it.

[Bob Miller]

The point I was trying to make was that as cars and trucks incorporate more and more technology that they are going to get more and more expensive to repair. And that will become more out of hand as they age.


Right now the average of the U.S. fleet is 11.4 years, basically meaning that the average vehicle has passed the age were many like to make trade-ins.
Here's a link: http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...ord-11.4-years


But, as an example, while Honda and many others are correctly laying blame to a subcontractor, the current dust up about air-bag problems may just be the tip of the iceberg. As many, many, many parts, from seats to onboard computers in new cars today are made by subcontractors and, as Mercedes learned a few years back, with defective wiring looms from subcontractors, quality issues outside of the corporate purview can reek havoc.


I bought a new 2003 Sonoma and liked it so well that I shopped for over a year to find a low mileage 2003 2 dr Blazer. It doesn't get as high a mileage as others, but I have good reason to believe that my repair bills will be minimal for a loooog time and that most parts I might need are available aftermarket, unlike a lot of imported car emissions system parts etc.


In another ten years my son may have just taken away my drivers license, so it might just work out even.....LOl

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Jim ; One good thing is that your 2014 Ram as well as mine now have 100,000 mile spark plugs . The 2010/2011 Ram trucks had different spark plugs and required the plugs to be changed every 32,000 miles. A rather expensive PITA..
I had the plugs changed in my 2011 Ram for under $200 .One of the reasons I traded off my 2011 Ram was I didn't' want to fork over another $200 for new spark plugs .

Yes, my 2009 Ram was coming due for it's first plug change, spend $300 or another $15,000 for a new truck, you can't take it with you....

[sokhapkin]

Which $200 to replace spark plugs you're talking about??? Spark plugs change is trivial and the cost of a good spark plug is about $3 per piece...

[steve dunham]

I have to agree with you Bob . The subcontracting of parts on cars has lead to multiple problems . Chrysler subcontracted the building of their engines to plants based in Mexico. .Some of the engine blocks were improperly cast leading to porosity issues in the cylinder walls . By the time consumers started reporting engine issues it was too late . I blame Chrysler for not doing due diligence and exercising proper quality control . The issue with the airbags highlights the lack of testing and quality control by all the auto manufacturers. It is a shame that the final consumer (US) now are becoming the auto maker quality inspectors

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by sokhapkin

Which $200 to replace spark plugs you're talking about??? Spark plugs change is trivial and the cost of a good spark plug is about $3 per piece...

There are 16 plugs on a V8 hemi .The Mopar spark plugs cost $6 each
16 x $6 = $96 + tax for the parts .Labor was $95 -- $96 +$95 =$191 total + tax
The cost at the dealer was $350. I had 2 garages who would not change them because of the difficulty of getting to some of the plugs and the possibly of breaking them. I do not have a garage and I have no intention of standing out in the cold changing plugs plus I hate working on vehicles
Hopefully this explains to your satisfaction where the $200 figure came from

[Del Gue]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Isn't adding "flat" when describing Florida highways sorta "Captioning the Obvious"? LOL

It's also pretty hilly up around Tallahassee.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by sokhapkin

Which $200 to replace spark plugs you're talking about??? Spark plugs change is trivial and the cost of a good spark plug is about $3 per piece...

Me thinks you will want to hang onto that 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis of yours a little long! Trust me an easy spark plug change isn't going to happen cheap or fast on most newer vehicles.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Del Gue

It's also pretty hilly up around Tallahassee.

That comment made me think of those grocery carts that as soon as you reach a certain point off premise the wheels lock up.

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Just wait until you have a tune up with those active fuel management motors, my Ram v-8 has 16 spark plugs, when you cut off the cylinder the other plug is activated. Tune ups will set you back $300-400.

What I don't understand is, if the Odyssey can get such great fuel economy by running on 3 cylinders at times, why doesn't the Chrysler V8 Hemi also get great fuel economy? It runs on 4 cylinders at times... seems like it should get about 28 or 30 like the 3L diesel does in the same vehicles. Instead they're very lucky to hit low 20s, I think.

Speaking of the diesel engine, it seems like a great fit for anyone who dreads the spark plug change...

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Del Gue

Thanks, Carol. There is going to be an RV show about 50 miles away in June,

Just keep in mind you will not normally find any moulded fiberglass trailer manufactures at RV shows due to most sell directly from the factory - Bigfoot is one of the few you may find at some RV shows, at it is sold through RV dealers in the US.