VW Jetta

[Thomas G.]

We're all gonna get sued and then die!










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[BCDave]

Of the two pictures- both are extreme, but which one is SAFER?

[melissab]

Hmmmmmmmm, wonder how fast that semi is spinning those tiny tires....... He could have put that up on his flat bed and not had to tow it all, lol!

[BCDave]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

We're all gonna get sued and then die!


.

"Nonsense - EVERYTHING is perfectly safe! Nothing bad can ever happen! It is possibly a complete & total waste of money to buy insurance, to get the brakes checked or to replace tires! Don't worry!"

[floyd]

Originally Posted by BCDave

Of the two pictures- both are extreme, but which one is SAFER?

It's likely safer to stay home and cower in the basement, But I can assure you that if I were forced to buy an oversized vehicle (like a fullsized pickup) to tow my 13 Scamp I would sell the Scamp.
OH!...To answer your question...

The Jetta in the picture is by FAR the SAFER choice, since it is going nowhere!

But having held a CDL since long before there was such a thing(sorta), I can think of very few vehicles more dangerous than a Semi In the wrong hands.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by BCDave

"Nonsense - EVERYTHING is perfectly safe! Nothing bad can ever happen! It is possibly a complete & total waste of money to buy insurance, to get the brakes checked or to replace tires! Don't worry!"

On the contrary, I think everyone should get your personal permission before they before they even consider driving a vehicle let alone towing a trailer.

[Ed Harris]

I am entirely mystified again and again that we keep having this same conversation?
No one seems likely to change the opinion or rationalization they have burned into their minds about this.

It is frustrating to me for exactly the reasons that Robin and Dave mentioned so I needn't go into the same ones again but I also take personal offense that someone would decide for me that I will share the road with a vehicle combination run beyond the published manufacturers ratings.

I just don't know how to make this any more clear?

I am glad you have not been hurt or hurt anyone else so far while taking these actions but I am also afraid that seems to make you even more committed to the idea that the risks you take for you and me are OK somehow?

Also if I am not mistaken Norm HAS always had the Moderator label next to his name.....until now?
Has that Status changed?

Ed

[honda03842]

BCDave,

For the record, I have not been a moderator for a while finding that reading every post was too much for my on our road schedule this year. I am now a Senior Member, probably due to my advancing age.

In fact I have minimized my posting, and now often resort to PMs when I think I can be of help. I know my positions are different on many topics but they are always well considered.

Please do not take offense, I'm happily different and always willing to step out of the Box (after all we used to live in a Geodesic Dome).

[Mike Magee]

Robin, I guess we have found your hot button. I'm sorry you couldn't resist clicking on the topic, since it was bound to get you riled. Oh well.

Anyone contemplating use of a Jetta or Passat should be made aware that Can-Am builds a custom hitch receiver with a very good tongue weight capacity and well attached. I would not want to attempt towing much with this vehicle without a strong receiver.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by BCDave

If I were the owner of this site, I would take pains to ensure that moderators did, in fact, always take a moderate view and promote a moderate course of action, and further that moderators instantly jump in to delete (or disavow) any messages which may be conceived to promote or condone potentially unsafe practices.

Instead, I now find that one who habitually condones such practices IS a moderator.

Dave normally this site states under the parties name they are a moderator - in this situation I am not so sure the party in question is still in fact a moderator.

I agree it would be nice if the moderators could perhaps come up with some sort of clear standing policy in regards to posts that appear to be promoting equipment and towing practices that in some cases are outside the laws of many states (a good example is the suggestion we see all to often thats it ok to ignore state laws in regards to trailer brakes) or one such as this one which involves the suggestion its ok to tow outside of the vehicle manufactures specifications. And the one I really love the most is the suggestion we all hear time and time again is they do it Europe so you should be ok doing it here. As the topic comes up time and time again, I suspect it makes a large number of folks here cringe even if though the majority say nothing - wish more would speak up on this.

The problem as I see it is the fact that as it is allowed to carry on it has become a bit of a standing joke at fiberglass meets I have been to. I have often heard it asked if anyone can explain how it is that if a person makes a tongue in cheek mention of politics their post stands a real good chance of being deleted if not the whole thread, yet nothing happens in regards to threads that appear to be promoting towing outside the laws or promoting what the majority here feels are unsafe towing practice. The joke part of this topic that I have heard goes something like this - When was the last time you heard of someone being injured or killed as a result of a good humored political jab?

Dont get me wrong I am not in anyway criticizing the Moderators or the forums owners, and I have no issue with the politics policy and I think the Moderators here do an amazing job and I don't envy them. I also think that having clear policies works well for this forum. I also don't like to see Moderators work load increased but IMHO this particular topic needs to be looked at as it is one as Dave has clearly pointed out that can do way more harm than good.

As I said thats just MHO.

[LesBerg]

I don't want to kick a hornets nest on my second post on the forum, but as a long-time mechanic and someone who's been on the wrong end of improper towing, it not about what a vehicle can physically tow.

It's ALL about what a vehicle can control. A tow vehicle has to be heavy enough, have the proper suspension, and enough traction that it can maintain stable towing conditions. It also has to have the braking power to arrest the momentum of a towed load in the event of brake failure on the trailer. Typically, a vehicle intended for towing also has over-sized brakes; additional cooling capacity for the engine, transmission and sometimes for the power steering as well.

Can you physically tow something heavier than a vehicles rated towing capacity? Certainly. But the engineers that determine the maximum towing capacity for a vehicle are taking many factors into account to come up with this number, including a significant safety margin to account for people improperly loading a trailer or adverse towing conditions.

I was stupid enough to tow a very overloaded 1963 Ford Fairlane on a car dolly with a 1974 Duster. When the Fairlane blew a rear tire on the freeway at 70mph, my wife and I nearly died. Not an experience I care to repeat. We endangered not only our lives, but those of everyone on the road around and behind us. It shouldn't have taken such a drastic mishap to lear this lesson, but learn it I have.

The only proper way to tow a load heavier than your vehicle is rated to tow is to buy, borrow, or rent a heavier vehicle. Period.

Les Berg.

[Robin G]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Robin, I guess we have found your hot button. I'm sorry you couldn't resist clicking on the topic, since it was bound to get you riled. Oh well.

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Mike, it's always been a "hot topic" with me and for the longest time I did resist and stayed away from such topics, because I flip everytime someone with little or no knowledge just hands out info on this subject like they are living proof that it can be done so go for it. In my opinon to justify their antic's.

But frankly, I fear that someone may take this rederick and apply it to their scenario without thought of how their situation may differ and for the mere fact that it goes againist all guidelings and laws set for this country or the state in which they are traveling in.


And the whole stupid justification that European tow caps are higher so we can go by them totally throw's me. We aren't in Europe! Hello, Dorthy! Just brings into question the mental capacity of those who post on the world wide web.

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Dont get me wrong I am not in anyway criticizing the Moderators or the forums owners, and I have no issue with the politics policy and I think the Moderators here do an amazing job and I don't envy them. I also think that having clear policies works well for this forum. I also don't like to see Moderators work load increased but IMHO this particular topic needs to be looked at as it is one as Dave has clearly pointed out that can do way more harm than good.

As I said thats just MHO.

Some moderators read each and every post every time. Others scan as best we can, when we can, but the volume of posts (AND THE VOLUME OF POSTS) can be overwhelming. The Moderators are in this for the Love of the niche and genre, we are not paid for the sometimes excessive (ask our significant others) time we spend here. We are not required to read each and every post. Some of us still labor at full time employment, and we have other fires to put out.

Having said that, I just stumbled upon the controversy of this thread. My needs to be read index is up to 4 pages of Topics.

If I were to be consistent with the past, I would spend a lot of time editing and deleting... But sometimes it may be helpful for others to see how these discussions devolve into problems. I will just close the topic here, and let others make up their own minds.