What gear to tow in - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-05-2017, 04:51 AM   #41
Senior Member
 
Raspy's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: Roamer 1
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan View Post
Didn't generalize. "In some cases" means just that. Are all automatics as efficient as their manual versions? No. Some are.
Please share your specific list. I'd like to study them and discover how they work and how the numbers were arrived at.
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
Raspy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 05:35 AM   #42
Senior Member
 
Alf S.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 2007 19 ft Escape 5.0 / 2002 GMC (1973 Boler project)
Posts: 4,148
Registry
Send a message via Yahoo to Alf S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan View Post
Proof that there is a VAST difference of opinion about towing and transmissions. For example, I think anyone who prefers towing with a manual transmission ought to have their head examined. [emoji12]
Hi: rbryan... Some folks would rather put their tug in gear, and their mind in neutral!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie
Alf S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 11:06 AM   #43
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan View Post
Perhaps true in the past, but in many cases today they are no more fuel efficient than their automatic counterparts. In some cases the Automatic version is actually MORE fuel efficient than the manual.

I won't speak to the "boring" part.
Of course that would depend entirely on the skill applied to the manual transmission.
I wonder... why do these socalled automatic transmissions still require you to manually choose "tow mode"? Can't it sense the load and act accordingly?

Modern manual transmissions offer better control of the vehicle in every aspect of driving, the problem is the lack of skill or even interest for those doing the steering (lets not call it driving)

A generation ago they made a baby seat with a steering wheel and a shifter. It was fun for babies to pretend to drive, even though their input had no effect. Now they play with their phones and hope the car is smarter than them,not much of a challenge EH? ( should I say AI?)
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 11:22 AM   #44
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
It's not always lack of interest or skill, Floyd. A lower back injury a number of years ago made clutch use difficult. It was with reluctance I let go of my last stick shift vehicle, a 1998 Nissan Frontier with a 5-speed manual transmission, manual 4WD with low range, and manual locking hubs. It was a fun truck.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 12:40 PM   #45
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
It's not always lack of skill, Floyd. A lower back injury a number of years ago made clutch use difficult. It was with reluctance I let go of my last stick shift vehicle, a 1998 Nissan Frontier with a 5-speed manual transmission, manual 4WD with low range, and manual locking hubs. It was a fun truck.
Actually in context....
I was responding to the claim that some automatics get better mileage than manuals.
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 12:57 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
When it comes to fuel economy, my 21st century, cylinder-deactivating V6, 5-speed double-overdrive automatic, 8-passenger SUV gets better fuel mileage than I could eke out of that 20th century, 4 cylinder, 5-speed, 2-passenger Frontier, and more power in reserve, too.

But it's not nearly as much fun!
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 02:00 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
When it comes to fuel economy, my 21st century, cylinder-deactivating V6, 5-speed double-overdrive automatic, 8-passenger SUV gets better fuel mileage than I could eke out of that 20th century, 4 cylinder, 5-speed, 2-passenger Frontier, and more power in reserve, too.

But it's not nearly as much fun!
How many cylinders does it use when towing, if your not going off a cliff? I'm betting you got a GM.
Heck , my Chevy's cylinders used to deactivate randomly way back as far as 1957 so nothing new there!(that was no fun either!)
I switched it from a two speed automatic to a stick and it still got lousy mileage.
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 02:52 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
How many cylinders does it use when towing, if your not going off a cliff? I'm betting you got a GM.
Heck , my Chevy's cylinders used to deactivate randomly way back as far as 1957 so nothing new there!(that was no fun either!)
I switched it from a two speed automatic to a stick and it still got lousy mileage.
It's a Honda 3.5L VCM (variable cylinder management), and I believe it runs on as few as 3 cylinders with no noticeable change in noise or vibration; "ECO" lights up on the dash. Push on the gas and it fires on all 6 cylinders. I would have preferred a defeat mode for towing, but I think EPA rules dictate that if there is a defeat mode, published EPA gas mileage figures have to reflect the defeat mode engaged, which would produce lower numbers.

It has had some isolated issues, but nothing like the Cadillac V8-6-4 engine of old. Modern electronics help, I'm sure.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 03:31 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
Mike Magee's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Trailer: 2012 Escape 19
Oklahoma
Posts: 6,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
How many cylinders does it use when towing, if your not going off a cliff? I'm betting you got a GM.
Heck , my Chevy's cylinders used to deactivate randomly way back as far as 1957 so nothing new there!(that was no fun either!)
I switched it from a two speed automatic to a stick and it still got lousy mileage.
Sounds familiar. My '73 Vega had cylinder deactivation. (About every 300 miles one of the spark plugs would foul.)
Mike Magee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 03:47 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
Mike Magee's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Trailer: 2012 Escape 19
Oklahoma
Posts: 6,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by julmar View Post
Have a 2012 4Runner so can switch from d to whatever gear I need. Am not an expert at towing so welcome your kind suggestions. Towed over many high summits & select 4, then 3 & rarely 2 pulling 3200# trailer. Watch the rpms as well. Maybe this will help new towers over passes as well as enlighten me if I'm doing something wrong. On flats I tow in "d" but if any incline switch to 4. Am hoping this helps folks new to towing or if better options can educate me. TIA
Sounds good to me. If you notice the RPMs rise a few hundred but the truck has not actually shifted to the next gear, this is a sign that the torque converter has unlocked and the slippage is generating excess heat. You'd want to drop it to 4 and leave it there in those conditions. I had a 2008 Highlander, and now a 2008 Lexus GX470 (gussied-up 4Runner). Mostly I just leave it in 4 when towing, because D only gains me perhaps 1/2 a mpg... not worth taking the chance of overheating if I wasn't watching the tachometer.
Mike Magee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 05:02 PM   #51
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
It's a Honda 3.5L VCM (variable cylinder management), and I believe it runs on as few as 3 cylinders with no noticeable change in noise or vibration; "ECO" lights up on the dash. Push on the gas and it fires on all 6 cylinders. I would have preferred a defeat mode for towing, but I think EPA rules dictate that if there is a defeat mode, published EPA gas mileage figures have to reflect the defeat mode engaged, which would produce lower numbers.

It has had some isolated issues, but nothing like the Cadillac V8-6-4 engine of old. Modern electronics help, I'm sure.
Does it die at stop signs? Will it idle in park? How many cylinders does it use when idling?
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 05:53 PM   #52
Senior Member
 
Raspy's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: Roamer 1
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,880
Cylinder de-activation doesn't get you very much improvement because you still have all the sliding friction from all cylinders. I bought a Pilot with my daughter a few years ago and the difference was about 1mpg between the deactivate one and the regular one.

Not a big Ford fan, but their direct injection, turbo, Eco-Boost design, I think, is the best gas powered technology available right now. More power and better mileage. If they will hold up, they will be great.
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
Raspy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 06:05 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspy View Post
Cylinder de-activation doesn't get you very much improvement because you still have all the sliding friction from all cylinders. I bought a Pilot with my daughter a few years ago and the difference was about 1mpg between the deactivate one and the regular one.

Not a big Ford fan, but their direct injection, turbo, Eco-Boost design, I think, is the best gas powered technology available right now. More power and better mileage. If they will hold up, they will be great.
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2017, 06:15 PM   #54
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Does it die at stop signs? Will it idle in park? How many cylinders does it use when idling?
No. Yes. Six. VCM only engages above about 35 mph. The latest generation Pilots have idle stop technology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspy View Post
Cylinder de-activation doesn't get you very much improvement because you still have all the sliding friction from all cylinders. I bought a Pilot with my daughter a few years ago and the difference was about 1mpg between the deactivate one and the regular one.

Not a big Ford fan, but their direct injection, turbo, Eco-Boost design, I think, is the best gas powered technology available right now. More power and better mileage. If they will hold up, they will be great.
I'm inclined to agree. Compared to the Highlander V6 with similar displacement and horsepower, the Pilot got 1-2 mpg more. I bought the Pilot for a number of other reasons. VCM came with the deal. Still, 25-26 mpg highway in the real world ain't too shabby for a fairly large vehicle. I'd much rather have had a turbo four, but as Floyd says, we don't get too many choices!

Right now the Mazda CX-9 (turbo-4, 3500# towing) looks attractive to me. It still had the old, thirsty V6 when I was last vehicle shopping.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 01:13 PM   #55
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
No. Yes. Six. VCM only engages above about 35 mph. The latest generation Pilots have idle stop technology.


I'm inclined to agree. Compared to the Highlander V6 with similar displacement and horsepower, the Pilot got 1-2 mpg more. I bought the Pilot for a number of other reasons. VCM came with the deal. Still, 25-26 mpg highway in the real world ain't too shabby for a fairly large vehicle. I'd much rather have had a turbo four, but as Floyd says, we don't get too many choices!

Right now the Mazda CX-9 (turbo-4, 3500# towing) looks attractive to me. It still had the old, thirsty V6 when I was last vehicle shopping.
Tire choice within the same size can make 1-2MPG difference.
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 01:45 PM   #56
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Tire choice within the same size can make 1-2MPG difference.
So can lots of other differences between two similar vehicles from different manufacturers, even two different years of the same model, such as a VCM and non-VCM Pilot. Transmission gearing and software, injection system, engine software, aerodynamic enhancements,...

It was not my original intent to advocate for a technology such as VCM. In my case, it came with the territory, and I'd rather it had not. This conversation was originally about automatic vs. manual fuel economy, and my only point was to make a light-hearted comparison between my current techno-gimmicky automatic and my previous old-school manual everything. The current vehicle gets better fuel mileage than the best I could do with the old-school set-up, and it's a bigger vehicle. I do not attribute that to VCM or any other specific difference, of which there are myriad.

I will say that a genuine 1-2 mpg improvement is significant over the 200-300K life of a vehicle. Of course, it has to be weighed against the lifetime cost and complexity of the technology(-ies) involved.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 03:11 PM   #57
Senior Member
 
Civilguy's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Trailer: Escape 21 & Jeep GC 5.7 (Previous 2012 Casita FD17 & 2010 Audi Q5)
Puget Sound, WA
Posts: 1,775
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan View Post
I think anyone who prefers towing with a manual transmission ought to have their head examined.
Well, I did and the doctor said there's nothing in there!

Now what?
__________________
~ “It’s absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious.” Oscar Wilde ~
~ “What the human being is best at doing is interpreting all new information so that their prior conclusions remain intact.” Warren Buffett ~

Civilguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 08:40 PM   #58
Senior Member
 
Raspy's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: Roamer 1
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Civilguy View Post
Well, I did and the doctor said there's nothing in there!

Now what?

Maybe a second opinion?

After you get through the appointment process and the waiting period and you settle down in the waiting room for a bit, you'll get placed in to a room for more waiting. Finally, the doctor will show up with a caring attitude and a clip board. There may be a security guard nearby as this is a mental ward. As the doc tries to help you feel relaxed and ready to reveal your problem, you blurt out "I like stick shift cars!"

Now the real fun begins as the doc tries to understand the relevance of that statement. He probes further........have you always felt this way? Does your mother drive a stick shift? Do automatics scare you? Do you have control issues?

The guard, seeing the tension rise, makes sure the strait jacket is handy. He unhooks the safety strap on his holster. He does a radio check to make sure he can reach the main desk.

As your life flashes in front of you, all the good intentions you had, the friends and family you've known, children growing up, a successful career, the great adventures you've had, etc. One burning question begins to emerge. Was all of this psycho analysis really necessary? Is there a problem with shifting for yourself?

Your questioning makes the clouds part and a brilliant ray illuminates the truth. As your eyes adapt to the light and you lower your hand, there it is.......1. There is nothing wrong with the desire to shift. 2. It's entirely up to each individual driver.

The sense of peace that floods to room lowers the tension, the guard re-hooks the safety strap and takes a large sigh. He mops a bit of sweat. The doc proclaims "my work is done here" and strolls off down the haul with a satisfied gait. Just then the loudspeaker crackles to life and we hear the word.. NEXT!

So, the bottom line is.... you do not need to get your head examined. Regardless of what earlier examinations revealed, you had a bad recommendation!

Carry on.
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
Raspy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2017, 09:42 PM   #59
Senior Member
 
Trailer: Scamp 13 ft
Posts: 452
, Good Answer !
DavidG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2017, 07:33 PM   #60
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
So can lots of other differences between two similar vehicles from different manufacturers, even two different years of the same model, such as a VCM and non-VCM Pilot. Transmission gearing and software, injection system, engine software, aerodynamic enhancements,...

It was not my original intent to advocate for a technology such as VCM. In my case, it came with the territory, and I'd rather it had not. This conversation was originally about automatic vs. manual fuel economy, and my only point was to make a light-hearted comparison between my current techno-gimmicky automatic and my previous old-school manual everything. The current vehicle gets better fuel mileage than the best I could do with the old-school set-up, and it's a bigger vehicle. I do not attribute that to VCM or any other specific difference, of which there are myriad.

I will say that a genuine 1-2 mpg improvement is significant over the 200-300K life of a vehicle. Of course, it has to be weighed against the lifetime cost and complexity of the technology(-ies) involved.
I have a particular Kumho tire on my Ranger now which produces about 1-1/2MPG better highway mileage on average over the previous BFG which I had used for many years.
I will not buy another set of the Kumhos.
What I have gained in mileage I way more than lost in traction, handling and stopping distance.
I now must compensate for my automatic transmission in much the same way... the jury is out on the mileage thing.
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss Gear Screen House on Sale Thomas G. General Chat 23 02-09-2012 01:49 PM
For sale ~ Scuba Gear! Gina D. General Chat 4 12-04-2007 05:53 PM
Camping Gear jefh Classified Archives 0 10-02-2007 07:00 PM
Running Gear Parts Legacy Posts Care and Feeding of Molded Fiberglass Trailers 6 12-05-2002 09:38 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.