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Old 05-23-2022, 10:30 AM   #61
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Name: John
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Most of those "Rules of Thumb" predate J2807.
Now all the confusion has a brand new source!

It seems to me that everybody wants a definitive authority to provide a reliable standard, just so they can claim its all wrong.


Guess we are now only left with research and common sense....
No wait that's what it was before!!
I don’t know for sure but I think adhesion to J2807 is voluntary, meaning I don’t think all manufacturers adhere to it. Not sure. Couldn’t find anything on it. I think it’s a good idea though for those comparing trucks etc.

For example I don’t think BMW, Mercedes or Tesla use the standard. Not sure Jeep does either.
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Old 05-23-2022, 06:59 PM   #62
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Sounds like your Tahoe is puttin' on airs. Does it prefer Italian or a classic American steakhouse? Verdi or Beethoven?



But seriously, I guess that only means it has to fit in an urban parking spot or structure, which would disqualify some oversized trucks.
We’re talking Sports Utility Vehicles, Jon. Our Tahoe prefers Italian bel canto opera & red meat with an apple pie Al la Mode chaser.

Several years ago, I returned from a winter training trip and took it to the dealership the next morning. It was caked with mud and the service staff were both gleeful & astonished to see an SUV that was actually driven off-road.

Alas, Chevy is lowering the profiles of the newer model Tahoes & Suburbans. Our crates can no longer fit in the back anymore.

Progress …
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Old 05-23-2022, 09:21 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Travellers View Post
I don’t know for sure but I think adhesion to J2807 is voluntary, meaning I don’t think all manufacturers adhere to it. Not sure. Couldn’t find anything on it. I think it’s a good idea though for those comparing trucks etc.

For example I don’t think BMW, Mercedes or Tesla use the standard. Not sure Jeep does either.
True,it is voluntary for both manufacturers and owners...

but it is ostenibly the new and improved widely accepted standard for towing. It was designed to replace the patchwork claims from various manufacturers with reliable and authoritative information.
The point I was making was that it has not exactly accomplished its mission since it is apparent that it is not trusted any more than its various predecessors.

This leads back to my mantra.... educate yourself on your specific application, then make reasonable decisions and take responsibility for those choices.
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Old 05-23-2022, 10:11 PM   #64
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True,it is voluntary for both manufacturers and owners...

but it is ostenibly the new and improved widely accepted standard for towing. It was designed to replace the patchwork claims from various manufacturers with reliable and authoritative information.
The point I was making was that it has not exactly accomplished its mission since it is apparent that it is not trusted any more than its various predecessors.

This leads back to my mantra.... educate yourself on your specific application, then make reasonable decisions and take responsibility for those choices.
Yah that is some sound advice Floyd.

When selecting a trailer we reached out to Tesla to find out how their tow capacity is determined. They directed us to a certain pages in our manual for the answer. Tesla calculates tow capacity assuming vehicle is loaded to its GVWR (except for one certain tire and rim combination which we donít have). The service manager was super helpful. He told us all kinds of things about the car that werenít in the manual, and also directed us to specific explanations in the manual on how the anti sway software works when in tow mode etc. Honestly Iím still not sure I understand it all but it is a neat system that uses the brakes to correct sway.

For the model Y the hitch is the weak link. 3500 / 350. From what I read on one of the Tesla groups the model Y was supposed to have a 5000 pound tow rating like the model X but at the last minute they put a 3500 pound hitch on it for marketing reasons. Apparently so those wanting the higher rating would have to buy the more expensive X. I have no idea if there is any truth to that. The model X also has auto level air suspension so maybe that has something to do with it.

Anyway, from what I gather some of the German Brands also determine tow capacity when tow vehicle is loaded to full GVWR. One has to do a little digging to get all the info. Would be nice if every manufacturer determined tow rating the same way.

Cheers.
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Old 05-23-2022, 10:20 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Travellers View Post
Yah that is some sound advice Floyd.

When selecting a trailer we reached out to Tesla to find out how their tow capacity is determined. They directed us to a certain pages in our manual for the answer. Tesla calculates tow capacity assuming vehicle is loaded to its GVWR (except for one certain tire and rim combination which we don’t have). The service manager was super helpful. He told us all kinds of things about the car that weren’t in the manual, and also directed us to specific explanations in the manual on how the anti sway software works when in tow mode etc. Honestly I’m still not sure I understand it all but it is a neat system that uses the brakes to correct sway.

For the model Y the hitch is the weak link. 3500 / 350. From what I read on one of the Tesla groups the model Y was supposed to have a 5000 pound tow rating like the model X but at the last minute they put a 3500 pound hitch on it for marketing reasons. Apparently so those wanting the higher rating would have to buy the more expensive X. I have no idea if there is any truth to that. The model X also has auto level air suspension so maybe that has something to do with it.

Anyway, from what I gather some of the German Brands also determine tow capacity when tow vehicle is loaded to full GVWR. One has to do a little digging to get all the info. Would be nice if every manufacturer determined tow rating the same way.

Cheers.
To actually put a fine point on it....
Manufacturers don't publish capacities, they publish ratings.
The terms are not appropriately interchangeable.

Hence, GVWR not GVWC for instance.
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Old 05-23-2022, 10:31 PM   #66
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One more point....
Manufacturers don't publish capacities, they publish ratings.
The terms are not appropriately interchangeable.

Hence, GVWR not GVWC for instance.
Yes. My bad writing strikes again.

When we were trailer shopping we assembled all the numbers and went thru them one at a time.

Tow vehicle GVWR
Tow vehicle GAWR of front and rear axle.
Trailer GVWR
Trailer GAWR.
Hitch tow capacity and weight capacity.

Then we went out and weighed everything and confirmed what we researched before we bought the trailer. It was all pretty much what we expected so our homework paid off.

We are comfortably under all the limits although we are close to the vehicles tow rating and hitch weight rating. But we check often and have it dialed in now.

35 years ago we werenít near as good at this and Iím pretty sure we were over on at least one of our early trailers.

Cheers.
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Old 06-06-2022, 02:42 PM   #67
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Best tow vehicle for a super lightweight fiberglass trailer that is 13-17'?



People tow these fiberglass trailers with vehicles that would otherwise be incredibly poor choices for any serious towing. Hardly anyone has checked the actual tongue weight of their fully loaded trailer. You see people selecting vehicles based on the empty trailer weight every day here. Who goes camping with no water, no food, no beer, no bedding, etc?


Towing on the edge of a vehicles rating is dangerous for everyone on the road. I'd suggest getting something with double the capacity of what you intend to tow. Look for 5k+ tow capacity for a casita/scamp. Lots of suvs, trucks and vans to choose from.
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Old 08-03-2022, 12:27 PM   #68
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I’ll respectfully disagree. It’s more dangerous to have people towing trailers at speeds exceeding the tires speed rating.

We have travelled all over Europe. Left lane speeds are much higher than right lane speeds. And towing over 90 kph is a huge no no in many places there.
Maybe it's safer for YOU to drive 55, but you're creating a constant hazard for everyone else on the road around you. All that passing on two-lane roads is dangerous, and you create hostility among speedy motorists. Many of who already hate trailers, or hate small trailers, or just hate everybody! My limit is 65-70, when conditions permit.
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Old 08-03-2022, 12:38 PM   #69
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Iíll respectfully disagree. Itís more dangerous to have people towing trailers at speeds exceeding the tires speed rating.

We have travelled all over Europe. Left lane speeds are much higher than right lane speeds. And towing over 90 kph is a huge no no in many places there.
Maybe it's safer for YOU to drive 55, but you're creating a constant hazard for everyone else on the road around you. All that passing on two-lane roads is dangerous, and you create hostility among speedy motorists. Many of who already hate trailers, or hate small trailers or hate everybody!
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Old 08-03-2022, 02:14 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by John McMillin View Post
Maybe it's safer for YOU to drive 55, but you're creating a constant hazard for everyone else on the road around you. All that passing on two-lane roads is dangerous, and you create hostility among speedy motorists. Many of who already hate trailers, or hate small trailers or hate everybody!
Depends where you live I suppose. Most two lane roads we drive on have a speed limit of 90 kmh.

Anyway, you are ultimately responsible for your own safety. Generally speaking towing a short wheel base combo over 90 kph is not recommended. There are driving schools available for those who have trouble driving on highways where people are travelling slower in the right lane.

Cheers and safe travels.
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Old 08-03-2022, 02:33 PM   #71
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Euro caravans typically run at significantly lower tongue weights than their NA counterparts. That dictates lower towing speeds.

It’s 65 mph tops for us in the right lane, slower if conditions are less than ideal, but I have tested my Honda Pilot/Scamp 13 combo up to 75 mph with no instability. We run about 12% tongue weight.

Al lot of rural 2-lanes in the rural western states have a posted limit of 65 mph, so 55 mph does impede traffic.

Most newer ST radial trailer tires are rated for at least 80 mph nowadays, so no concerns there.
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