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Old 01-21-2019, 01:53 PM   #81
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Ironic isn't it that there has been years of advertising/education to stop smoking and now they legalize pot smoking. Kinda crazy world we live in eh!
Well, yes it is a crazy world. But "legalizing" something doesn't mean it's safe or healthy. Legalizing, in the case of pot, probably is more about correcting past laws that should never have been instituted in the first place. We can't always make things illegal, just because they are unsafe. Smoking pot is far less dangerous than tobacco or alcohol and it is unstoppable, as anyone can grow it, and people like it. Humans seem to need to get a buzz now and then, and they will find a way to do it. Pot became illegal through a prejudicial government propaganda campaign run by Harry Anslinger in the 1930s. This led to a huge societal conflict that is still not settled. It has led to making criminals out of millions. Now, whenever someone starts to pass judgement on someone else for smoking a joint, I'm not sure how much of that condemnation, or concern, is based on the residue from the past 80 years of legal and "moral" concerns, and how much is based on real health concerns, or prying into someone else's private activities. But, when I see the same person who is "concerned" about pot, show little or no care about cigarette smoke, the answer becomes more clear. My view is that using the argument that pot smoke is unhealthy, and therefore others should not smoke it, completely misses the point. Where is the similar condemnation over tobacco or alcohol, for instance. However, subjecting anyone else to second hand smoke is extremely rude and/or clueless. So, this smoking while camping issue comes right back to being polite and considerate of others. How far away from the camp must someone go be non-offensive? Why should someone be offended by a nearly harmless activity that is being conducted in private? Does the concern also extend to alcohol and tobacco? Should we forbid all campfires because someone might have trouble with smoke blowing in their face? When camping in a large campground, how can anyone expect to not notice other activities or force others to hide?

This whole conversation can get expanded to infinity with all of it's tangential subjects. It also demonstrates why I personally like to camp in smaller groups, or with just my family. It demonstrates why camping in private campgrounds or other places with strict rules, can become tedious. Activities and rules established by committee, to control an activity like camping, just seems absurd. There always seems to be someone who feels duty-bound to make sure no rules are being flaunted. Don't we go there to get away from such things, to live a simpler life for a while, to spend free time with others we care about, to see a new beautiful place and get lost in the wonder of it? The last thing I want to do is go looking around for someone that might be smoking pot and then go out of my way to stop it. Especially by declaring a higher moral standard or enforcing a more healthy lifestyle. Or try to establish a group consensus on how that "issue" might be best handled. Or try to design a list of rules that will allow medicine, but not drugs. Or overlook one drug in favor of another, just because we are used to one of them.

Meanwhile, when camping out where it's cold, I fully intend to have a campfire and sit by it in the evening. Or should we all, by consensus, decide that campfire smoke is not healthy so there should not be any more campfires, ever? Heaven forbid, there might be someone sensitive to smoke somewhere. Best to protect them from ever getting a whiff of what is going on!

Not meaning to offend anyone here, but how much camping can we do by committee? How can we free ourselves, if only slightly, from the bounds of a strict society, by going out into the wilderness to re-charge our batteries, enjoy a bit of freedom, and let our minds wander, while trying to follow another set of strict rules, designed primarily to make everyone non-offensive to anyone? How much permission do we need to mind our own business, practice a bit of live-and-let-live, or just be left alone? Doesn't it all boil down to courtesy? Are we all just naughty children that need to be guided along?

A couple of examples that stuck with me were: Some jackass with a huge motorhome parked next to me in Yosemite. He ran his generator all day. It was on my side of his rig with it's exhaust and noise right there, while his whole group stayed on the other side away from it. He wandered over to say hi, I thought, but really came over to tell me one of my truck tires was off the pavement and I was parked illegally. Then at another campground, I had the park's owner come over and tell me to be sure and not put any hot pans on the table, then he kept an eye on me to make sure I didn't. I was just out cooking my breakfast on a beautiful morning and suddenly I'm being lectured about his tables, possible repercussions, and then being monitored. Later, on the way out I noticed the "thanks for coming" sign.

Maybe I'm just oversensitive, but the smaller the crowd, the less organizing involved, the better. I'm out there to appreciate the place, experience it and learn from it. To have fun and take a break from normal activities. It's fun to meet new folks and I won't be the one that hands them a list of rules and then tries to enforce them to my satisfaction. I get very little value from going all the way out to some remote spot, just to carefully fit in with a large group, while observing a carefully written list of rules that are either common sense, or don't make sense. OMG, that dog's leash is more than 6' long! I heard some laughing from that other campsite after 10PM! Someone just walked by with an open beer! Where's the ranger? Call 911!
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Old 01-21-2019, 02:00 PM   #82
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Don't forget vehicle emissions from towing a trailer to the campsite.
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Old 01-21-2019, 04:17 PM   #83
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Really good points, John.

One need only have gone to college in Utah in the 90's, as I did, to see how easily, had history gone slightly differently, society could have stigmatized alcohol instead, and anyone enjoying a beer after work would be looked at as a heathen.

I watched mothers lead their children to the other side of the parking lot lane when they saw a six-pack of beer in my hand as I walked out, to avoid passing me in close range. I had plenty of people not be my friend when they realized I drink. I watched police swarm a college party, SWAT team style, hiding in bushes, guns out. This was a party with all people over 21.

Prohibition wasn't so long ago. We could easily be having the same conversation these days about slowly working to legalize alcohol, with all the moral judgments you see about pot.
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Old 01-21-2019, 04:19 PM   #84
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Not at all. Happens all the time. The question is answered (or not, often enough) and the topic takes on a life of its own. Especially if it's something controversial like tow ratings, tires, toilets, WDH, generators, unvented heaters, Walmart "camping," coffee... We can now add marijuana to the list.
And possibly it turned into exactly what they were saying they wanted to avoid.
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:58 PM   #85
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I think pot luck dinners should be illegal.
Gee, are those the dinners where you smoke pot and try to get lucky? I missed all of those.

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Caffeine is my drug of choice, and strong, black coffee my preferred means, though I am not opposed to an occasional mid-afternoon Diet Coke. In broad daylight!
Coffee POT, a whole 'nother addiction!


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Recreational pot has been sold legally here in Colorado since 2014 and not much has changed except for quite a bit more tax money in the state's coffers....
Dunno, lately I've heard more than one news report of CO men murdering their women. Could they be developing a cumulative effect over time? Maybe getting overly irritable when not high?
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Old 01-22-2019, 05:18 AM   #86
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Being a Canadian I can tell you first hand it is a BIG problem. People are smoking that stuff in public all the time. Outside of restaurants, at the hockey games, walking down the street and at the camp grounds. It not like cigar smoke or other annoying smells, that smoke contains THC which is a drug and certainly not for children to be inhaling. The latest research indicate children exposed to THC have brain development problems. I don't want to be inhaling their second hand smoke either and why people do not mind smelling like a skunk is beyond my reasoning. Solutions: ask nicely, build a big smokey camp fire and their smoke is less evident, go inside and close the windows until it passes. Eventually the laws will change and pot smokers will have more restrictions, but for now we depend on the kindness of neighbors to be responsible. Police do not want to waste their time on this problem as the courts do not precedents established and they do not want to jam up the system with they believe to a bad notion of the government. Mostly Canadians are nice and when there is a good reason (children in area) they will likely take their smoking away from your camp site and go for a walk elsewhere.
It has been my experience, people do not chain smoke marijuana like cigarette smokers chain smoke tobacco. They smoke a joint, and any smell quickly dissipated if the smoking is done outside. Tobacco users on the other hand are more apt to repeatedly/continually expose others to second hand smoke which permeates clothing (and everything else) and, to a non-smoker, is extremely offensive. I will not debate whether use of either substance constitutes a “disgusting” habit, but I have yet to hear any pot smoker defend his smoking location by stating “it is my right to smoke anytime I want” as I have heard many tobacco users state. As a result, at this point in time I find tobacco addicts far more rude and much less considerate of others in close proximity that pot smokers. That being said, anyone smoking any substance including fire wood should be considerate of others. Smoky, smoldering campfires which put out more smoke than flame cause those downwind trying to sleep with open windows to have to close windows. As others have pointed out, far too many people have little or no consideration for others.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:18 AM   #87
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Do Canadian truck drivers have to pass drug tests? What about airline pilots?
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:23 AM   #88
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We certainly have the right to be offended. And we do have the right not to take offense. But you don't have the right to be shielded from offense.

(Edited)
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:57 AM   #89
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Do Canadian truck drivers have to pass drug tests? What about airline pilots?



Canada’s airline industry says it has not yet been given any directive from the federal government about how to deal with the effects of legalization on its pilots and crews.


Personally I trust that pilots will continue to do the right thing given their professorial standing and need to operate across international boundaries.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:27 AM   #90
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We certainly have the right to be offended. And we do have the right not to take offense. But you don't have the right to be shielded from offense.

(Edited)
Wait..you mean the entirety of the United States and Canada is not a "safe space"? I'm glad I'm just a bit too old to have been steeped in the "micro-aggression" safe-space snowflake mentality. I personally live my life in a very respectful way, but I don't necessarily demand it of other people.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:53 AM   #91
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Canada’s airline industry says it has not yet been given any directive from the federal government about how to deal with the effects of legalization on its pilots and crews.


Personally I trust that pilots will continue to do the right thing given their professorial standing and need to operate across international boundaries.
I think you have more to worry about from over-the-counter and prescription drugs.
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:20 AM   #92
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So my short rant is that pot and children only don't mix if alcohol and children don't mix. The idea that drinking around kids is totally wholesome but somehow pot isn't is a way of thinking which is going to fade over time as people get used to it being legal.
I mostly agree with this, although it'll take a while for attitudes to change. I wouldn't think twice about drinking around my kids, but still feel weird about the idea of smoking pot in front of them. I think you're right, though, that this is mostly an attitude that exists because it's been illegal for so long.
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:38 AM   #93
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Marijuana use at Rallies in Canada

There is one difference, and that’s second-hand smoke. Of course that applies to cigarettes, too. I keep my kids away from where that’s happening, and I’ll certainly avoid places where pot is smoked. I’ll also keep them away from places and situations where alcohol is bring consumed inappropriately or in excess.

Actually there are a lot of things, legal and illegal, that don’t mix well with minors.
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Old 05-23-2019, 11:47 AM   #94
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Recreational pot has been sold legally here in Colorado since 2014 and not much has changed except for quite a bit more tax money in the state's coffers. And there's the added benefit of hundreds of decent paying jobs for people who were pretty much unemployable before. Now they can all work in pot stores where they're called "budtenders".
The concept that pot or alcohol or tobacco is revenue / tax positive is only partially true . There are numerous other social and financial cost associated with there use . IE ; medical , lost work ,lost productivity , damage to families ,
etc. The studies I’ve read show that when you add up the plus and minuses .that the sale of these products are at best revenue neutral
I have never been fond of the notion of using sin taxes to finance government
The end doesn’t justify the means IMHO
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:43 PM   #95
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But, if people are going to consume anyway...
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:38 PM   #96
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But, if people are going to consume anyway...
And most people these days seem to have their own definition of "sin".
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