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Old 06-02-2018, 08:35 AM   #101
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Well said. It's far easier to ban dogs than to confront the occasional bad owner. I had a chat with the host at a Vermont state park a few years back. He said at the end of the season meeting of all the park hosts, dealing with poorly behaved dogs and their owners was the number one complaint.
Unfortunately that sounds like more than just an "occasional" problem. I agree it's a pity responsible owners have to pay the price along with the increasing number of irresponsible ones.

I find it more than a little ironic that dogs are being banned from more and more outdoor spaces and at the same time being welcomed in more and more indoor spaces. Not long ago I witnessed a dogfight in the dairy aisle at the local Walmart.

Our dog is 90% outdoors and accustomed to having the untethered run of a large fenced yard. She is a great watchdog, barking at horses and transients that roam the area (we have no close neighbors). For all those reasons and others, she stays at home when we travel and we hire someone to check on her daily. We miss her and enjoy interacting with the well-behaved dogs we meet in our travels. Overall I've had very few unpleasant canine encounters in campgrounds, perhaps because the hosts are doing their jobs.

Walmart, on the other hand... Maybe they should retrain their greeters as dog whisperers.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:34 AM   #102
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Overall I've had very few unpleasant canine encounters in campgrounds, perhaps because the hosts are doing their jobs

I've encountered loud drunken campers far more often than problem dogs. And the hosts tend to ignor that situation. I probably would too.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:05 AM   #103
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Overall I've had very few unpleasant canine encounters in campgrounds, perhaps because the hosts are doing their jobs

I've encountered loud drunken campers far more often than problem dogs. And the hosts tend to ignor that situation. I probably would too.



The problems I've see are with the owners not the dogs. Owners allow their dog to poop in my campsite or somebody else's without cleaning it up. From talking to campground hosts that is biggest complaint about camp dogs. I've also see dogs let run and chase the local wild life, locked in hot RVs, left is RV with a generator running to keep the AC running all day long.

On the other hand I've met a lot of nice, well behaved dogs, and couple cats. Most owners don't like or want to be viewed a "inconsiderate dog owners". If a dog barks at me I'll try to introduce myself with the owner's permission with works most of the time.
My preferred dog bred is OPD (Other Peoples Dog).
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:46 AM   #104
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. Owners allow their dog to poop in my campsite or somebody else's without cleaning it up. From talking to campground hosts that is biggest complaint about camp dogs.
Yup. When on the road we both always carry a "poop" bag. Bread bags are the best. Unfortunately more and more campgrounds are removing the disposal opportunities. And it's not something you want to carry in your pocket. I suspect that and the dog fees create a casual attitude. Luckily most restrooms still have a waste can.
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:06 PM   #105
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Luckily most restrooms still have a waste can.

I'm sure the janitorial staff are thrilled to find your deposit.
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:01 PM   #106
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There are a few issues for leaving them in the car at night with windows open. Biting insects is in one of those. You would want to make screened window socks to put over the car doors and in any roof vents to keep the bugs out and the dogs in. Then there is the issue of having the windows in your car open if it starts raining.

As to leaving them in a screen room. It would need heavy duty, pet proof screening. The average camping screen room is not made with that type of mesh. A big dog will claw right through the more typical lightweight screen found in those products. When out at camping spots there are a great many small nocturnal animals roaming around at night that will be very tempting for many dogs to chase after. It is not just people they are going to be barking at.
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:20 PM   #107
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I'm sure the janitorial staff are thrilled to find your deposit.
Someone needs to make a flushable poop bag and then you could just dump it in the toilet.
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:00 PM   #108
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Also you would not want to crack the windows,( Bear Claws ) Can make a mess out of the interior of your car, also pets.
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:24 PM   #109
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We take our dog with us, every trip. On days where we planned long hikes we boarded her for a couple of days.

A few days in a kennel beat a month in the kennel.
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:00 PM   #110
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WE have been leaving our dogs at home, with good caretakers, but now that I have retired, we are considering taking them with us. We have 2 dogs, each at 60-65 pounds.


I just don't see them sleeping in the Scamp 16 with us...I'd be stepping on them, getting to the bathroom in the middle of the night, and though they tolerate riding in the back seat together, I know our female would not tolerate the male sleeping on the front bench with her.



So, the solution I'd like to try, is to have them sleep in the car at night, with windows rolled down enough for air, but not down enough for escape.

I see one dog sleeping in the back seat, and one in the rear (of a Honda Pilot).
Hopefully, they would not bark--we will just have to see.


We enjoy biking and kayak/canoeing as well, but I'd be willing to forego those activities to some degree, since we would not be leaving the dogs unattended.



We are very active--we never just sit around the camp all day. So, we could take the dogs hiking with us, if not restricted as in Nat'l Parks.


They have never been crated, so I don't see starting that now.


Any other thoughts, on sleeping arrangements for larger dogs?


The quote above is the only one I have seen on this thread.


Thanks for your input!
Well, you have some challenges to overcome. You have not described your tow vehicle, but you should have one which would allow for dog crates.

First of all, I simply cannot travel with my 65+ pound dogs without crates. All of our dogs are crate trained as puppies. As a breeder I would not sell a puppy to anyone who does not have a crate. I provide detailed instructions on how to crate train & house brake a puppy. If you are traveling with your dogs, it is best to have crates available for them.

I’ve been in situations where it was best to have a puppy in the trailer with me & leave the 2 older dogs in the SUV. But I have dog crates in the TV (and trailer) for each dog. Oomph one particular trip was, one of the dogs had diarrhea during the night (a pitfall to canine travel). It was a mess cleaning him & his crate the next morning, but not nearly as bad had he been in the trailer.

So, if you really want to bring your dogs & have limited space in your Scamp, you should make sure you can leave them in crates. I say this because it offers them safety & comfort (assuming they’re properly crate trained). For instance you can open the rear to give them air & they cannot jump out. I would not leave them free in the car when camping.

If one or both of your dogs bark because they want to be with you & disturb the other campers, you should put a bark collar on them.

FYI, we took the back seats our of our Chevy Tahoe to make room for crates & training equipment. But like my Bigfoot, we bought the car for our dogs.
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Old 06-02-2018, 07:02 PM   #111
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Has anybody asked the dogs if they want to go camping?
As our dog, Charly, aged, she would hide in the house when she detected that we were loading the trailer.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:40 PM   #112
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Has anybody asked the dogs if they want to go camping?
As our dog, Charly, aged, she would hide in the house when she detected that we were loading the trailer.
Our little Coco is the opposite. She adores it. It might be nice to go camping without her, but she's not having it.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:13 PM   #113
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Well said. It's far easier to ban dogs than to confront the occasional bad owner. I had a chat with the host at a Vermont state park a few years back. He said at the end of the season meeting of all the park hosts, dealing with poorly behaved dogs and their owners was the number one complaint.

Vermont added a pet fee to the camping fee. I was told it was to cover the cost of repairing the damage even the best behaved dog causes. I suggested they might add a child fee too. And an alcohol fee, a generator fee, a loud music fee, a campfire smoke fee.....
Most campgrounds have electricity or quiet times for generators. They most often have rules restricting alcohol and loud music.
There are many lovable pets in this world with responsible owners,and not that you have necessarily done so, but its just plain dumb to conflate pets with children.


I fail to see how a pet fee would do anything but punish responsible owners... now fines or expulsion for the extreme bad actors might work!


I would like designated dog runs, say near the dumpstations .
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Old 06-03-2018, 03:05 AM   #114
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Most campgrounds have electricity or quiet times for generators. They most often have rules restricting alcohol and loud music.

My point was that all those fees would be as foolish as the pet fee. Revenue generators at best..

Quote:
There are many lovable pets in this world with responsible owners,and not that you have necessarily done so, but its just plain dumb to conflate pets with children.
To many their pets are like children, members of the family, so no not that dumb.

Quote:
I fail to see how a pet fee would do anything but punish responsible owners... now fines or expulsion for the extreme bad actors might work!
Both would involve confrontation, something campground officials tend to avoid.
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I would like designated dog runs, say near the dumpstations .
Why? you don't travel with a pet. Besides the dumpstation is the last place you want people depositing a plastic bag full of dog poop. Bad for the septic system.

My dog is a major part of my life. She's always happy to see me and would never betray. I'm privileged to have her love and her loyalty. We bought a camper so we could travel with her. We try very hard not to bother others but weary of the intolerance. I feel sorry for those who don't get it. They are missing an incredible experience. Nuff said. Time for the morning walk in the woods. Raz
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Old 06-03-2018, 08:31 AM   #115
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My point was that all those fees would be as foolish as the pet fee. Revenue generators at best..



To many their pets are like children, members of the family, so no not that dumb.


Both would involve confrontation, something campground officials tend to avoid.


Why? you don't travel with a pet. Besides the dumpstation is the last place you want people depositing a plastic bag full of dog poop. Bad for the septic system.

My dog is a major part of my life. She's always happy to see me and would never betray. I'm privileged to have her love and her loyalty. We bought a camper so we could travel with her. We try very hard not to bother others but weary of the intolerance. I feel sorry for those who don't get it. They are missing an incredible experience. Nuff said. Time for the morning walk in the woods. Raz
Of course pets can be a major part of the owners life, and I respect the commitment it takes to do that relationship right.
I have many friends, who's pets I love dearly. Still... It is just plain dumb to conflate pets with children, and I feel sorry those who don't get it.
It is not intolerance to love both both while recognizing the difference.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dog runs are usually equipped with disposal bins specifically provided to accept pet waste, some even provide the bags. So I wasn't advocating the misuse of dumpstations.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Enforcement of rules always involves the possibility of confrontation. Officers are trained to deal with it respectfully, but as effectively as needed.
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Old 06-03-2018, 08:31 AM   #116
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You might try crates. You may be surprised that the dogs like them. Get a couple (you can easily find them used) of the airline type that have solid walls (not wire crates) and take the doors off and just leave them in the house. The dogs are likely to start using them for naps. Then put the doors back and start closing them for short times. (Feed the dogs in there.) Dogs like crates unless they have had a bad experience somewhere along the line, and it sounds like yours have simply never had them.

Barking in cars- mine love the car and any one of the three will sleep in it (day or night) without barking. If the weather allows it that's where I leave Oliver if I have to leave him at the site because he won't bark in the car (and he will bark in the trailer sometimes). Though at night in a campground they might bark if they heard a noise (just as they might bark in the trailer if they heard one- mine barked in the middle of the night on one trip last year when a stray dog came through our campsite.)

Kids and drunks- ironically the biggest problem I've had with barking was when kids were making all kinds of noise close to my trailer (skateboards, bikes, running and yelling too close) and their drunken father came out and screamed at my dog for barking.
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Old 06-03-2018, 11:46 AM   #117
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We've had more issues with unsupervised and unruly kids running through our campsite (one even tripped and got tangled in a line I strung between trees to dry towels) than we've ever had with barking dogs. But there is always that one owner with a dog that won't shut up. To me it's really not worth worrying about.
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Old 06-03-2018, 01:08 PM   #118
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We've had more issues with unsupervised and unruly kids running through our campsite (one even tripped and got tangled in a line I strung between trees to dry towels) than we've ever had with barking dogs. But there is always that one owner with a dog that won't shut up. To me it's really not worth worrying about.
When the western territories were being opened, all property held by those moving west was honored, with the exception of slaves.
It was argued that regardless of size, color or gender, any reasonable person could see the difference at a glance between a human and an animal or livestock.


While rules can be made concerning behavior, decorum, responsibility, etc., it is still the the aforementioned conflation to which I object and to which only fools subscribe. That is a statement made only as self-evident without accusation.


BTW; Most campgrounds prohibit tying anything to or between trees, I have a wonderful hammock with non-abrasive attachments which I am sadly prohibited from using almost everywhere.


Point is...

What ever the source of the annoyance, it is incumbent upon the responsible camper to read the rules and respect their neighbors in the campground, both in compliance and with reasonable tolerance.
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Old 06-03-2018, 01:43 PM   #119
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Thanks for the replies...will have to read the Steinbeck book.
Also, might try the crate thing...our dogs have never used them since we have had them. They are both adopted from the local shelter, so who knows their previous experience. And, they do love to get in the car, b/c it usually means hiking at our local state park.
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Old 06-03-2018, 05:20 PM   #120
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Thanks for the replies...will have to read the Steinbeck book.
Also, might try the crate thing...our dogs have never used them since we have had them. They are both adopted from the local shelter, so who knows their previous experience. And, they do love to get in the car, b/c it usually means hiking at our local state park.
Keep in mind Charley Steinbeck was a fiction writer. Do a fact check on his trip across America and you will find that he had quite the imagination. Here is a quote from one source: Nor was Steinbeck alone that much. On more than half of his trip he was accompanied by his wife, Elaine. All told Mr. Steigerwald estimates that Steinbeck spent no more than a couple of nights in the camper itself, and says, “Virtually nothing he wrote in ‘Charley’ about where he slept and whom he met on his dash across America can be trusted.” This is from: A Reality Check for Steinbeck and Charley
By CHARLES McGRATH APRIL 3, 2011
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