better days ahead!

[Carol H]

Actually Jim if you were to read post 5 and follow the link as posted to the US Fiat 500 website you will read where it clearly states "Max. Gross Trailer Weight: Not rated for trailer tow" What further facts do you require??

[Bob Miller]

In post #4

"TRAILER TOWING

Trailer towing with this vehicle is not allowed."

Was copied and pasted out of the Fiat 500 Owners manual Carole cited in post #5 and is FiatUSA's entire position on the subject. See page 485 in the Fiat 500 Owners manual.


Def: nolo contendere (no-low kahn-ten-durr-ray) n. Latin for "I will not contest" (Westlaw)

Nolo Contendere is first person and cannot refer to fact, opinions or inanimate objects.)

[cpaharley2008]

Carol and Bob,
If you read my post it states a fact, not something you posted here., that is an opinion. Without the original evidence that came with the vehicle to compare let's move on away from semantics.

[Francesca Knowles]

Hey, Brian!

Is your Private Message inbox full yet?

Francesca

[cpaharley2008]

This thread reminds me of the Allstate commercial, "If it is found or stated on the internet, then it must be true", Where did you read that- "On the internet.!" "Bonjour"

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Carol and Bob,
If you read my post it states a fact, not something you posted here., that is an opinion. Without the original evidence that came with the vehicle to compare let's move on away from semantics.

Seriously Jim? While I dont disagree with you that the information posted from the manual and from USFiat500 is an opinion, its that of the manufactures, not mine or Bob's. Your statement in that regard that "everyone here is expressing an opinion without any facts and there doesn't appear to be any facts available," is also if one uses the same semantics that you have chosen to use, is simple an opinion not fact.

Based on your position on the above is it any surprise to anyone that many have come away from this site in the past year or two with the perception its become pro unsafe towing practise. I for one certainly hope that it really isnt the position of this sites owner and or its management team. But as one new to this forum member said to me this summer “ I just don’t get it!” With all sincerity all I can say is I don’t either but the way this topic gets handle frequently and today being a pretty darn good example, it leaves a lot of room for doubt. Sad day

[Bob Miller]

In closing, I know that the courts have held that a statement contained within a corporations website, and purporting to be a facsimile of the original owners manual, unless otherwise disclaimed, as being one and the same as that sent with the vehicle as of that day If it's close enough for the courts, it's close enough for me and, I am sure, 98% of the readers hereabouts.

Carol, I think that the interested party has his answers, let's you and I got out for a beverage break.

[Mary F]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

On my own motorhome tech site I ban any posts that are beyond known specifications, if only because, as the site owner, I can become party to any future injuies and/or lawsuits resulting from following such suggestions.

Owners/Moderators here would do well to follow the same policy and/or post a disclaimer to that effect

This website actually does cover this in the Terms of Service, linked at the bottom of this and every page.

It basically says that individuals are responsible for what they post online.

[LindaK]

In following this thread, I was impressed by the ongoing efforts of dedicated and caring forum members who not only shared factual information, but also took the risk of going beyond that and sharing their own personal thoughts. Obviously, Brian needs to decide for himself what he will tow with his Fiat; he asked for input and seemed to be as impressed as I was with the time and efforts of forum members. For any of us to dish out put-downs or criticisms of what other members share and express really negates what this forum is all about. Since when has it become about facts only? The diversity of opinions and differences shared on this forum make it an incredible resource for practically anyone who might be looking for ideas concerning their own little egg. I think it helps to lighten up and look at the bigger picture of things. We're all in this together and each of us is looking for ways to put our own personality into our little towable egg.
The ideas and information that my husband and I have gleaned from this forum continually help us to be the best egg owners we can be! I thank all of you who share your ideas and opinions as well as links to other sources of information (fact or opinion is often just semantics). Ultimately, each of us is responsible for the choices we make, not some post on a fiberglass trailer forum.

[floyd]

American standards are the toughest in the world, but who cares about that....

This picture is part of a "Knaus Schwalbennest" European advertisement, Not an American ad for Fiat. (for all you combination Lawyer/mechanical engineers)

Looks like a great little trailer, and wouldn't it look great behind an Abarth?
Hey! A guy can dream can't he? (while he waits in line for a potato)

[Carol H]

Floyd it is indeed a cool looking set up! And as you know I being one of the first to tow a 16' with what funny enough has been declared in the past an inadequate tow by at least one party partaking in this discussion. And I have taken a far bit of flack over it by a few others here over the years as well, but I would be the first to buy a small car again if it was in fact European built and with all the same specs and engines as they are so privileged to get. Wouldn't mind that trailer & a few others they have to go with it either

As you say though sadly it appears we in NA are left to only dream about it or retire to europe.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Floyd it is indeed a cool looking set up! And as you know I being one of the first to tow a 16' with what funny enough has been declared in the past an inadequate tow by at least one party partaking in this discussion. And I have taken a far bit of flack over it by a few others here over the years as well, but I would be the first to buy a small car again if it was in fact European built and with all the same specs and engines as they are so privileged to get. Wouldn't mind that trailer & a few others they have to go with it either

As you say though sadly it appears we in NA are left to only dream about it or retire to europe.

I think we did just retire to Europe, eastern Europe!

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Mary F

This website actually does cover this in the Terms of Service, linked at the bottom of this and every page.

It basically says that individuals are responsible for what they post online.

I think I see the problem...perhaps presuming that we're smarter than we actually are, the site doesn't State The Bleedin' Obvious!

You might consider enlarging on that language to include the following

Disclaimer To Those Who Read What People Post Here:

Individuals are responsible for taking anything posted by members at this site with a grain of salt since like all internet forums the content is approximately 93.5% opinion, the rest being made up of a loose assortment of factoids occasionally livened up by an Actual Verifiable Fact. It is our expectation that said individuals are smart enough to discern the difference and act accordingly.

We remind you of the Words of Your Mother:
" I raised you to think for yourself!!! If Jimmy-next-door told you to jump off the roof, would you do it???"

Well?

Would you?

We didn't think so...

Love,

The Site Owners


Or words to that effect....

Francesca

[GeorgeR]

Sorry to resurface this opinions pool, but I will add my opinion to it regarding towing in the USA. I just experienced this decision process.

Yes, there are differences in all EU cars once they get to this side of the pond. The DOT headlights shoot 10% of light upward to illuminate road signs (including the upcoming traffic), in the EU this number is 0 by design, there are remotely adjustable headlights, more door brackets for side impact, different bumpers, different taillights, engines, transmissions, and the list is long. In my opinion these are secondary causes to the different towing standards in the USA. Any engineering team could take these partly differently built cars and design them for similar towing as in the EU. Towing by passenger cars (perhaps except Volvo) was not in their list of objectives from the get go.

There are legal differences of how towing limits are managed on both continents. Personally, I believe that following the rules is far more stringent in the EU than in the USA. As an example; there is no ambiguity about the particular vehicle towing limit, it is printed on the registration paper, it is based on options for the particular vehicle, and penalty for exceeding that number is stiff. During the purchase of my 99 F350, I calculated the towing limit, had to pull a large boat, and finding right information for the towing limit equation was not simple.

So, here is my opinion. If in doubt follow the money. All manufacturers will always promote products with the most profit and rightfully so. The phenomenal growth of the SUV market in the USA was the result of these higher profit strategies. Just go to any dealer and ask for a towing vehicle, will they lead you to a passenger car? It takes a long time to build market perception, there are many vectors driving the market perception toward the highly profitable SUV strategy. One of these vectors is building awareness that passenger cars cannot tow. Towing became a special privilege reserved for SUVs and trucks only. So, I ended up with a Sprinter.

George.